ACPA getting rid of volunteers.........again?

[Fanblade]

Rumours only at this point. Anyone want to corroborate?

Rumour is ACPA just fired 5 or 6 more volunteers for supporting change from within.

I’m doing this on an anonymous forum because as we all know it will be kept from the membership. At least here we might get someone willing to fill in the blanks.

Even confirming without details is a baby step towards transparency.

[alkaseltzer]

Can you give more deets?

Did they step out of line?

Were they released for like handing out flyers or something small like coffee machine talk?

Do share, you’ve tickled our curiosity.

[NotDirty!]

Don’t you feel better knowing that your dues aren’t going towards overpaid volunteers who might actually answer your emails or provide help? This is a professional association, not a customer service company! There are a select few who know what’s best for you, and the more people you allow to get involved, the harder it is to achieve those goals. You should be thanking ACPa for saving your money and your career!!

[throwaway123]

I've heard the same.

The list is getting REALLY long now.

Disagree with the Supreme Leader, and you're out.

[throwaway123]

Can you give more deets?

Did they step out of line?

Were they released for like handing out flyers or something small like coffee machine talk?

Do share, you’ve tickled our curiosity.

There was a group last year that ran people in elections under a grass roots movement kinda thing. Basically anyone even remotely associated even in passing to this group has been fired. I wouldn't be suprised if the Supreme Leader is trying to figure out how to remove the NEMs too.

True democracy at its finest. The sad part is no one seems to care. And it will be forgotten in a week, just like it was forgotten very quickly that the Supreme Leader sent union correspondence to Management, throwing a number of elected councillors under the bus.

[Dias]

So these people donate their time for free? And they got fired?

[pilotdude86]

A volunteer organization removing volunteers if they don't agree with the supreme leader MM. Please volunteer!!! BUT only if you agree with us 100%.

You're an absolute shame and a joke MM!!! Oh and Mr Supreme Leader MM when you read this....kindly remember this is what your campaign to get elected was:

Candidate - National Member MEC
Post Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:53 am

All,

For the last six months I have had the honour of representing our membership as a Nationally Elected Member of the MEC and stand for re-election to continue to advocate for your interests. I thank the membership for their support and trust in electing me to office.

While my time on the MEC has been short I have gained valuable insights as to how ACPA works, and how it does not.

I firmly believe that you should know how your MEC votes, just as you should be informed and engaged on important matters. If the membership voices concerns, your leadership should respond.

Prior to my previous campaign for office I had initiated a petition to change how your dues are collected. Over 400 of you responded, yet the threshold to compel the MEC to act was not reached. I advanced the issue at the MEC level and despite your concerns, the motion was defeated, as was the request for a recorded vote.

Open engagement with an informed membership directly improves the work ACPA does on your behalf. As the unity initiative continues I have advocated for full membership engagement, and not just a select group.

This is your Association, you pay dues, and you should have a far broader opportunity to be involved in how we are to be represented in the future.

My volunteer work for the pilot group started as a member of the wawcon committee in the early days of ACPA, and as the Editor of the ACPA Journal when it was resurrected in the late 90’s. As Grievance Chair in early 2000’s I grew the portfolio from roughly 40 grievances to over 100.

In 2006 I served on the Negotiations Committee through the 2006 Wage and Pension re-opener and more recently again in 2011-12 with a membership-first informative and engaging bargaining campaign.

As challenges and opportunities arise and with bargaining not far off, the important issue is that you participate in this election and support those who will do their utmost to ensure your voice is heard to improve your careers and profession.

Thank you for your continued trust and support.

Best,

PD

[throwaway123]

So these people donate their time for free? And they got fired?

Correct. Many of which have years or decades of union volunteer and elected experience, and subject expertise.

I think in the last few months there's upwards of over a dozen people removed. Many with extensive past experience in leadership positions in MEC's and as elected reps at other unions (WestJet/Encore/Jazz/Air North), IFALPA, flight safety experts, scheduling experts etc.

The MEC Chair has turned ACPA into a complete dictatorship. Disagree, and you're out. Completely muzzled, no recorded votes, meeting minutes not easily accessible to members and no real communication with the members. If you even so much as sneeze in a chat group, you will be reprimanded through the "social media policy".

It's been a few months I believe since the first people were removed from their committee positions, and the greater membership still doesn't know.
Many people are still emailing and calling one particular person thinking they are still the subject expert/ACPA contact.

[alkaseltzer]

Can you give more deets?

Did they step out of line?

Were they released for like handing out flyers or something small like coffee machine talk?

Do share, you’ve tickled our curiosity.

There was a group last year that ran people in elections under a grass roots movement kinda thing. Basically anyone even remotely associated even in passing to this group has been fired. I wouldn't be suprised if the Supreme Leader is trying to figure out how to remove the NEMs too.

True democracy at its finest. The sad part is no one seems to care. And it will be forgotten in a week, just like it was forgotten very quickly that the Supreme Leader sent union correspondence to Management, throwing a number of elected councillors under the bus.

Initial poster on this thread made it sound that good folks were fired for doing their jobs properly.

I saw that letter, those councillors were factually wrong. The VPFO confirmed this in a later memo.

Stir the pot, you may pay the price.

True democracy works...Trudeau fired his cabinet ministers...other provincial leaders followed his example. Democracy has its limits. I think most would not want modern day tribalism in a pilots union.

Did MM swear on the bible when he became the Chair? Did he win the popular vote? It’s his show. Until he leaves/retires/voted out.

Or are a few disgruntled folks pushing the P4C agenda? (whatever it’s called)

[pilotdude86]

Can you give more deets?

Did they step out of line?

Were they released for like handing out flyers or something small like coffee machine talk?

Do share, you’ve tickled our curiosity.

There was a group last year that ran people in elections under a grass roots movement kinda thing. Basically anyone even remotely associated even in passing to this group has been fired. I wouldn't be suprised if the Supreme Leader is trying to figure out how to remove the NEMs too.

True democracy at its finest. The sad part is no one seems to care. And it will be forgotten in a week, just like it was forgotten very quickly that the Supreme Leader sent union correspondence to Management, throwing a number of elected councillors under the bus.

Initial poster on this thread made it sound that good folks were fired for doing their jobs properly.

I saw that letter, those councillors were factually wrong. The VPFO confirmed this in a later memo.

Stir the pot, you may pay the price.

True democracy works...Trudeau fired his cabinet ministers...other provincial leaders followed his example. Democracy has its limits. I think most would not want modern day tribalism in a pilots union.

Did MM swear on the bible when he became the Chair? Did he win the popular vote? It’s his show. Until he leaves/retires/voted out.

Or are a few disgruntled folks pushing the P4C agenda? (whatever it’s called)

Alka Seltzer,

You keep buying the BS that is fed to you by MM and his band of misfits.

You have absolutely no clue. In fact THERE were guys/gals who were removed that had NOTHING to do with P4C or any other movement like you're trying to spin it!

Governance Committee
Security Committee
FSD
SKED/Comm
PBS
And many more.

Continue burying your head in the sand and think everything's hunky-dory....

You just refused to look at the truth. Stop spinning a different narrative. Time to call it as it is! MM needs to go.

PD

[redbusdriver]

there's a reason this happened. perhaps working together with the mec instead of starting a revolution

[simply_no_one]

there's a reason this happened. perhaps working together with the mec instead of starting a revolution

A revolution? Really?

Give me a fucking break. People can voice their concerns of the direction of our Association. Hell, that's how ACPA ended up being willed into existence. Distain against CALPA and what was the status quo. There are many people who have been removed from their positions who have had nothing to do with P4C or any other "movement" they just disagree with the dictatorship style leadership that MM has been exuding on ACPA and it's many faces. PW for one, he resigned because he couldn't ethically back up the direction the MEC was pushing. People like DT being let go is an tragedy for Flight Safety. I guess a couple decades of volunteering for the pilot group doesn't mean much anymore when you end up creating problems and pointing out issues in the contract, thereby causing work and costing the company money. I wouldn't' be surprised if some of these "firings" came from someone outside of ACPA.

[simply_no_one]

The VPFO confirmed this in a later memo.

Ah yes, all hail the VPFO. Don't forget which side of the table he sits on.

[pilotdude86]

there's a reason this happened. perhaps working together with the mec instead of starting a revolution

A revolution? Really?

Give me a fucking break. People can voice their concerns of the direction of our Association. Hell, that's how ACPA ended up being willed into existence. Distain against CALPA and what was the status quo. There are many people who have been removed from their positions who have had nothing to do with P4C or any other "movement" they just disagree with the dictatorship style leadership that MM has been exuding on ACPA and it's many faces. PW for one, he resigned because he couldn't ethically back up the direction the MEC was pushing. People like DT being let go is an tragedy for Flight Safety. I guess a couple decades of volunteering for the pilot group doesn't mean much anymore when you end up creating problems and pointing out issues in the contract, thereby causing work and costing the company money. I wouldn't' be surprised if some of these "firings" came from someone outside of ACPA.

Don't forget MG from Security....and JC as well.

PD

[Fanblade]

there's a reason this happened. perhaps working together with the mec instead of starting a revolution

That’s a very interesting response. Your suggesting the firings were partisan motivated. The majority simply got rid of the minority voices?

That would be really bad if true. It would reflect absolute intolerance to differing outlooks, opinion or vision.

[simply_no_one]

there's a reason this happened. perhaps working together with the mec instead of starting a revolution

A revolution? Really?

Give me a fucking break. People can voice their concerns of the direction of our Association. Hell, that's how ACPA ended up being willed into existence. Distain against CALPA and what was the status quo. There are many people who have been removed from their positions who have had nothing to do with P4C or any other "movement" they just disagree with the dictatorship style leadership that MM has been exuding on ACPA and it's many faces. PW for one, he resigned because he couldn't ethically back up the direction the MEC was pushing. People like DT being let go is an tragedy for Flight Safety. I guess a couple decades of volunteering for the pilot group doesn't mean much anymore when you end up creating problems and pointing out issues in the contract, thereby causing work and costing the company money. I wouldn't' be surprised if some of these "firings" came from someone outside of ACPA.

Don't forget MG from Security....and JC as well.

PD

MG is a big loss and hardly someone you could consider a "dissenter" or part of some revolution.

Seeing all these people with vast experience being removed isn't going to make it easy to entice anyone new to step up and volunteer. Although I'm starting to think that's the plan, to consolidate power. Afterall look at how many people have multiple positions on committees. Even look at the YWG Chair also being Negots Chair. Sure he has a proxy when there's a MEC vote about negotiations but he's obviously going to choose someone who will vote like he would. One of the most important committees led by an MEC member who represents less than 2% of the pilots (YWG base). That's a lot of power for one person.

If you actually put on your thinking cap and take a step back, it's very clear what's going on. But there are too many people with their heads in the sand.

[alkaseltzer]

There was a group last year that ran people in elections under a grass roots movement kinda thing. Basically anyone even remotely associated even in passing to this group has been fired. I wouldn't be suprised if the Supreme Leader is trying to figure out how to remove the NEMs too.

True democracy at its finest. The sad part is no one seems to care. And it will be forgotten in a week, just like it was forgotten very quickly that the Supreme Leader sent union correspondence to Management, throwing a number of elected councillors under the bus.

Initial poster on this thread made it sound that good folks were fired for doing their jobs properly.

I saw that letter, those councillors were factually wrong. The VPFO confirmed this in a later memo.

Stir the pot, you may pay the price.

True democracy works...Trudeau fired his cabinet ministers...other provincial leaders followed his example. Democracy has its limits. I think most would not want modern day tribalism in a pilots union.

Did MM swear on the bible when he became the Chair? Did he win the popular vote? It’s his show. Until he leaves/retires/voted out.

Or are a few disgruntled folks pushing the P4C agenda? (whatever it’s called)

Alka Seltzer,

You keep buying the BS that is fed to you by MM and his band of misfits.

You have absolutely no clue. In fact THERE were guys/gals who were removed that had NOTHING to do with P4C or any other movement like you're trying to spin it!

Governance Committee
Security Committee
FSD
SKED/Comm
PBS
And many more.

Continue burying your head in the sand and think everything's hunky-dory....

You just refused to look at the truth. Stop spinning a different narrative. Time to call it as it is! MM needs to go.

PD

Ah we are getting somewhere. I merely suggested P4C. Since you know so much, what did these people do to get removed?

You say:

Governance Committee
Security Committee
FSD
SKED/Comm
PBS
And many more.


Not everything is hunky dory and I believe I may have pinched a certain nerve, apologies.

Do continue the story and explain what happened...

[simply_no_one]

It's not complicated. If you disagree with the way the MEC Chair wants to run the Association, you're removed from your position. PW already posted on the private forum why he resigned. Maybe go have a read. A few others posted as well, including ones who were removed from their committees.

There is one vision allowed and any individuals who bring up concerns with the direction that the slight majority ruling class of the MEC is pushing, are alienated. Or highlight lack of contract enforcement for some things such as scheduling, bidding, flight safety etc.

These are not new people or inexperienced volunteers being removed. These are Chairs, and people who have been involved in ACPA for a decade or more. Individuals well respected among their peers. Not some radical group of rebels.

['97 Tercel]

Who cares.

Go outside...

[simply_no_one]

Who cares.

Go outside...

That's exactly the kind of additude that's gotten us to where we currently are. Keep ignoring what's going on and it will continue getting worse.