No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

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CPT.HarshColdReality
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by CPT.HarshColdReality »

Omicron seems to be creating havoc out there....(Not the actual virus though...)
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QKZXKV
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by QKZXKV »

CPT.HarshColdReality wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:54 pm Omicron seems to be creating havoc out there....(Not the actual virus though...)
Thanks to our media and politicians. The actual experts I have been critical of, are cluing in that punishing travel is not a "fix".
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'97 Tercel
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by '97 Tercel »

Yep.

What an overreaction. Society is addicted to fear.
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

C'mon guys... What are you anti-science covid skeptical? We have to follow the science and what the media tells us.
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the-minister31
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by the-minister31 »

altiplano wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:28 am C'mon guys... What are you anti-science covid skeptical? We have to follow the science and what the media tells us.
Media and science do not sound right when put in the same sentence...
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Dias
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Dias »

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating
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pumpkinpatch
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by pumpkinpatch »

**** wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:38 pm A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating
Well when you are fucking over the furloughs contractual right to bid any vacancy their seniority can hold and forcing hundreds of pilots to commute (I think a lot are going to have $$ shock once they realize how much AIFs have increased) it's no suprise.
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bob99
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by bob99 »

**** wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:38 pm A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating
Bypassing on this second round?
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Can Pilot
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Can Pilot »

bob99 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:23 pm
**** wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:38 pm A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating
Bypassing on this second round?
I don't think you will see as many bypassing on this round besides people who are on a LOA.
A number of those pilots who didn't accept recall on round 1 were waiting for YVR positions to become available.
Will be interesting to see what happens.
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pumpkinpatch
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by pumpkinpatch »

Can Pilot wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:23 pm
bob99 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:23 pm
**** wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:38 pm A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating
Bypassing on this second round?
I don't think you will see as many bypassing on this round besides people who are on a LOA.
A number of those pilots who didn't accept recall on round 1 were waiting for YVR positions to become available.
Will be interesting to see what happens.
Many will be commuting to YYZ for some time I imagine. Too bad we don't have an actual commuting policy or free jumpseat like Jazz. AT is not flying that route either these days. With all the increases in fees, I don't envy anyone who will commute. ACPA and even Murray said they would try to recall people back to their base by offering positions in base but obviously they were only talking about the center of the universe, not the chumps out west. Not even anywhere near the amount of positions need in YVR to have even half of the pilots back home.
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Sharklasers
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Sharklasers »

**** wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:38 pm A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating
Once AC works it’s way through the list those people will get the “Come back or be fired” email and AC will start hiring from the thousands of Jazz and un/under employed OTS/expat pilots that have been waiting for the industry to start moving again. The company couldn’t give a shit if those people choose to quit. All the recalls require full courses the only difference in training would be 10 days of PIT the costs of which would be more than offset by all the new pilots coming in at year one day one of flat pay.

“Don’t threaten me with a good time”- AC management.
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tbaylx
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by tbaylx »

Sharklasers wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:47 pm
**** wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:38 pm A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating
Once AC works it’s way through the list those people will get the “Come back or be fired” email and AC will start hiring from the thousands of Jazz and un/under employed OTS/expat pilots that have been waiting for the industry to start moving again. The company couldn’t give a shit if those people choose to quit. All the recalls require full courses the only difference in training would be 10 days of PIT the costs of which would be more than offset by all the new pilots coming in at year one day one of flat pay.

“Don’t threaten me with a good time”- AC management.
There aren't as many OTS/expat pilots unemployed as you may think. Many airlines are in for a shock when they begin hiring again
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Sharklasers
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Sharklasers »

tbaylx wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:53 am
Sharklasers wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:47 pm
**** wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:38 pm A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating
Once AC works it’s way through the list those people will get the “Come back or be fired” email and AC will start hiring from the thousands of Jazz and un/under employed OTS/expat pilots that have been waiting for the industry to start moving again. The company couldn’t give a shit if those people choose to quit. All the recalls require full courses the only difference in training would be 10 days of PIT the costs of which would be more than offset by all the new pilots coming in at year one day one of flat pay.

“Don’t threaten me with a good time”- AC management.
There aren't as many OTS/expat pilots unemployed as you may think. Many airlines are in for a shock when they begin hiring again

AC has shown before they aren’t above going down to the 704s and 703s enmass if needed, that said anecdotally I have half a dozen expat buddies in China and Hong Kong that would come home to Canada if it was for AC. Until the day the USA opens its borders to us Canadian pilots AC will never struggle to recruit.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by JoeyBarton »

Sharklasers wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:33 am
tbaylx wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:53 am
Sharklasers wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:47 pm

Once AC works it’s way through the list those people will get the “Come back or be fired” email and AC will start hiring from the thousands of Jazz and un/under employed OTS/expat pilots that have been waiting for the industry to start moving again. The company couldn’t give a shit if those people choose to quit. All the recalls require full courses the only difference in training would be 10 days of PIT the costs of which would be more than offset by all the new pilots coming in at year one day one of flat pay.

“Don’t threaten me with a good time”- AC management.
There aren't as many OTS/expat pilots unemployed as you may think. Many airlines are in for a shock when they begin hiring again

AC has shown before they aren’t above going down to the 704s and 703s enmass if needed, that said anecdotally I have half a dozen expat buddies in China and Hong Kong that would come home to Canada if it was for AC. Until the day the USA opens its borders to us Canadian pilots AC will never struggle to recruit.
Let's not forget hundreds of applicants from Sunwing Swoop Transat Flair and Porter...All my buddies bottom 150 at Transat will apply here as they are not banned from applying anymore. Lowering the pay to 48k wouldn't change a thing, all these fine people would still apply. At stated above AC will never have any issue hiring. The others will.
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pumpkinpatch
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by pumpkinpatch »

Anyone willing to work at a major for 48k is not "fine people".
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Dashdriver88
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Dashdriver88 »

HavaJava wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:05 am That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.
I highly doubt that’s the case now.
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pumpkinpatch
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by pumpkinpatch »

CATSA reporting over 60% of 2019 numbers, this with the "scary" omicron variant. USA has fully recovered. We will be well over 75% by spring 2022.

VP of Flt Ops was wrong. Management at AC will never admit they made a mistake with their recall process. Many people were saying for months that AC is playing with fire waiting as long as they are. VO calls going out 2-5+ times a day right now one some fleets. Pilots reporting multiple calls and pretty much having to tell CS to piss off. Yeah, everything is totally fine.
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

Joshc1988 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:01 pm
HavaJava wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:05 am That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.
I highly doubt that’s the case now.
Looks like that quote is 6 months old...

That said, they are short and management are liars every day when it comes to giving you the scoop and inside info. Special roadshow or casual visit in the sim.

They say things like that because it's their job to keep labour unsettled, it plays to their advantage to drop rumours like that.

What a screw up this training mess is... it's of their own making and they won't admit it, but still they'll look to us to fix it.
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pumpkinpatch
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by pumpkinpatch »

altiplano wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:43 pm
Joshc1988 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:01 pm
HavaJava wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:05 am That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.
I highly doubt that’s the case now.
Looks like that quote is 6 months old...

That said, they are short and management are liars every day when it comes to giving you the scoop and inside info. Special roadshow or casual visit in the sim.

They say things like that because it's their job to keep labour unsettled, it plays to their advantage to drop rumours like that.

What a screw up this training mess is... it's of their own making and they won't admit it, but still they'll look to us to fix it.
You hit the nail on the head. Look what they got out of the fear of no recalls on the early fall bid. A the new rouge agreement passed at the MEC level without letting the pilots decide. Keep preaching #2023 over and over and keep the pilots fearful. Even as recent as Sept I heard pilots on the line talking about "how there could still be more furloughs coming", like give me a fucking break. Bunch of whipped scared children our pilot group is.

AC should have started recalling in June/July in preparation to have pilots on the line for xmas. They also should have treated the furloughs with some ounce of respect, and followed the contract for the recall process. They are still denying the rights of our pilots to bid into any available vacancy by limiting the options or forcing you to "bypass", and I hope some people give their balls a tug and take it to grievance. This toxic relationship needs to end and it's time they answer for all their contract violations.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by JoeyBarton »

The sad part is I don't think the company saved any money by layingoff 600 folks and down train the 3500 still on property to then up train the 3500 and recall the 600 in a 18 month time frame...Everybody is changing seats...
Also makes you wonder if having 3-4 different types on each NJA and WJA is really to thing to moving forward. Protects the pilots in any downturn but that really is the only advantage given a crisis hits every 8-10 year cycle..
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