No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
User avatar
shawnthesheep
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:08 am
Location: YYC

No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by shawnthesheep »

Hello all heard about the following? Is this true or just a rumor?
---------- ADS -----------
 
NotDirty!
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 4:04 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by NotDirty! »

While you’re at it, do you mind sharing the lotto max numbers for Friday?
---------- ADS -----------
 
HavaJava
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:23 am
Location: anywhere but here

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by HavaJava »

That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.
---------- ADS -----------
 
montado
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by montado »

HavaJava wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:05 am That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.
Something doesn't add up here. Why is it in America everyone has been recalled and they are back to new hires. They are back to 2019 flying levels.

This forecast is longer than covid has even existed and they don't think we will need to recall? I don't buy it. If they don't need all the pilots back by end of this year someone is doing something wrong.
---------- ADS -----------
 
RegionalPilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:28 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RegionalPilot »

The simple reason is because AC is and will br a smaller company that they were before Covid.

In the US, they are blessed with a huge amount of domestic travel.
montado wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:16 am Something doesn't add up here. Why is it in America everyone has been recalled and they are back to new hires. They are back to 2019 flying levels.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by rudder »

montado wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:16 am
Something doesn't add up here. Why is it in America everyone has been recalled and they are back to new hires. They are back to 2019 flying levels.

This forecast is longer than covid has even existed and they don't think we will need to recall? I don't buy it. If they don't need all the pilots back by end of this year someone is doing something wrong.
They are not back to 2019 flying levels. Recovery in the US so far is domestic travel.

US carriers attrited significantly more pilots through incentivized severance and age 65 during COVID. This is replacement hiring and still geared more towards a 2022 partial recovery in international traffic.

Try catching a flight to Australia or New Zealand. Oops, not permitted in 2021.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Inverted2
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3692
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Turdistan

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Inverted2 »

Many restrictions still remain for travel between provinces. They have none of that down south.

Still can’t (legally) get a hair cut in Onterrible until some time in July. :rolleyes:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Let’s Go Brandon
User avatar
Ash Ketchum
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:52 am

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Ash Ketchum »

For someone at a regional hoping to eventually go to AC this news is informative, thanks for sharing. How many AC pilots are currently on furlough?
---------- ADS -----------
 
montado
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by montado »

Inverted2 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:59 am Many restrictions still remain for travel between provinces. They have none of that down south.

Still can’t (legally) get a hair cut in Onterrible until some time in July. :rolleyes:
It’s so strange man. Honestly, so strange that people are okay with these restrictions. Costco is still doing happy hour where only seniors can go shopping and I’m thinking how stupid this garbage is. Every senior has had the chance to get fully vaccinated if they want it. Masks are still mandatory, distancing is in place. And there is very little evidence to show covid is spreading like crazy in these places.

This is what happens when restrictions are implemented slowly and goal posts keep moving. They can always twist a new reason why restrictions need to remain or new ones need to be imposed. I hear from so many people how they are okay with it, and being canadian we are compliant, and how this is such a good thing. :lol:. Completely idiotic.
---------- ADS -----------
 
notwhoyouthinkIam
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

montado wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:29 am
Inverted2 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:59 am Many restrictions still remain for travel between provinces. They have none of that down south.

Still can’t (legally) get a hair cut in Onterrible until some time in July. :rolleyes:
It’s so strange man. Honestly, so strange that people are okay with these restrictions. Costco is still doing happy hour where only seniors can go shopping and I’m thinking how stupid this garbage is. Every senior has had the chance to get fully vaccinated if they want it. Masks are still mandatory, distancing is in place. And there is very little evidence to show covid is spreading like crazy in these places.

This is what happens when restrictions are implemented slowly and goal posts keep moving. They can always twist a new reason why restrictions need to remain or new ones need to be imposed. I hear from so many people how they are okay with it, and being canadian we are compliant, and how this is such a good thing. :lol:. Completely idiotic.
Thank you for your opinion, but you are incorrect.

I am booking people's vaccines through the Ontario Vaccine Booking Line. I am still getting calls from the 70+ age group who are still trying to get their first dose. For some reason, our government thinks that it's more important to add more people to the queue of shortened interval callers while we have no appointments available and our seniors are getting shafted.
---------- ADS -----------
 
montado
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by montado »

It's like when a captain and first officer go for breakfast at Denny's and the captain is over 60 so he is eligible for the seniors discount.

The captain is making well over 6 figure salary and his new FO is on some flat pay the senior guys voted for. Maybe one fifth the wage. Never mind the home prices this fo will have to pay if he hasn't got into the market yet. The captain bought a home 20 years ago for 200k that's now worth 1.2 million. His salary at the time was 40k a year, today the fo is making 55k and the starter size homes are 6x the price.

But of course people come out screaming how the seniors have it so bad. 😂. But you know what... The captain bought his copilot breakfast anyways. Why am I complaining!

So maybe you are right, not all seniors can get that second dose right yet. But like we said we keep moving the goal post. So does it make sense to do senior hours? How much covid is stopped? If young people have older family at home why should they have to go during covid super spreader hours to bring covid home to family. It's all just a stupid show... All these restrictions don't make sense to begin with so why am I even trying to rationalize anything. None of it is worth debate, they should just drop all the stupidity immediately.

Raise your hand if you feel bad for the boomer generation. 😂
---------- ADS -----------
 
notwhoyouthinkIam
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

montado wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:58 am Raise your hand if you feel bad for the boomer generation. 😂
We get it, you don't care about anybody other than yourself.
---------- ADS -----------
 
montado
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by montado »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:02 am
montado wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:58 am Raise your hand if you feel bad for the boomer generation. 😂
We get it, you don't care about anybody other than yourself.
That's an interesting spin on my point that a plate of food should cost the captain and first officer the same price. Some how my idea is unfair, and I only care about myself. How dare I even have an opinion about what is fair! 😂. You are hilarious.
---------- ADS -----------
 
notwhoyouthinkIam
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

montado wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:08 am
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:02 am
montado wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:58 am Raise your hand if you feel bad for the boomer generation. 😂
We get it, you don't care about anybody other than yourself.
That's an interesting spin on my point that a plate of food should cost the captain and first officer the same price. Some how my idea is unfair, and I only care about myself. How dare I even have an opinion about what is fair! 😂. You are hilarious.
Just because your 60 year old captain makes $150,000 per year does not mean that all seniors make that. Let's also add that the senior's hour is 60+. The idea behind it is to allow those who are more likely to be at risk if they catch COVID to get the stuff they need without the crowd of people running around them.

But here's the thing, if you don't like it, don't shop there.
---------- ADS -----------
 
TheStig
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by TheStig »

Montado, you're all over the place. The handling of pandemic restrictions has been subpar from the start by all levels of government and everyones patience has worn thin. Benefits to the elderly may very well have outlived their early intentions when the 'Greatest Generation' was reaching their 60's about 30 years ago and was deservedly widely respected by society, not sure what it has to do with 600 pilots furloughed at AC though?

Air Canada has retired about 80 aircraft, they are taking delivery of 737's and 220's and phasing out 320's from the mainline fleet, there have also been a few used 330's added in the past year and a half. The fleet is forecasted to be around 200 aircraft next summer down from over 250 in 2019, that's how large the airline is forecasting the market for its product to be. The early retirement program is open for the third time which isn't indicative a quick rebound. The VP of FOPs is being as transparent as possible given the uncertainty, even if it's not what those on furlough were hoping to hear its what many expected.

Since deregulation AC has laid off 3 times along with many other airlines around the world, once in the early 90's (the much despised boomers who were paying 18% interest on those cheap homes), then again in 2001 for Gen X this time, and of course nearly 20 years later.

No one is quite sure what the post pandemic world is going to look like in the aviation industry. The ME3 has largely turned into the ME1, with Qatar and Ethiad turning into codesharing partners with global alliances. While one threat dissipates, another namely, trans-Atlantic LCC service looks set to launch. More importantly, global trade barriers are surfacing that could impact airlines like Air Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
 
montado
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by montado »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:14 am
montado wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:08 am
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:02 am

We get it, you don't care about anybody other than yourself.
That's an interesting spin on my point that a plate of food should cost the captain and first officer the same price. Some how my idea is unfair, and I only care about myself. How dare I even have an opinion about what is fair! 😂. You are hilarious.
Just because your 60 year old captain makes $150,000 per year does not mean that all seniors make that. Let's also add that the senior's hour is 60+. The idea behind it is to allow those who are more likely to be at risk if they catch COVID to get the stuff they need without the crowd of people running around them.

But here's the thing, if you don't like it, don't shop there.

And that’s my point. Creating arbitrary policy as a government doesn’t make much sense. Denny’s can do whatever they like. They can offer millennials an “I can’t afford a home discount”, or seniors “I don’t have an income discount”. Of course not all seniors have no income and not all millennials don’t have a home.

But this is just my analogy of how these pandemic restrictions don’t make sense, they aren’t working, they are not logical, they are not fair. With government I don’t get a choice. Denny’s I don’t have to shop there. But where is my choice with the dumb government choices. I’m at the mercy of all the idiots around me who encourage these restrictions. I can’t just say I won’t shop here. Governments will keep taxing me and applying restrictions. So back to my main post, I just can’t believe how idiotic the restrictions are and that people continue to put up with it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
McKinley
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by McKinley »

HavaJava wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:05 am That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.

Can you post a link ? Not saying it’s inaccurate .. but it would be nice to see the information in its totality.

It’s weird, Jazz is recalling quite a few and Jazz is only 300 pilots from having a full roster. (From what I hear )
---------- ADS -----------
 
Inverted2
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3692
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Turdistan

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Inverted2 »

Jazz is recalling a lot but approx 75 took the buyout and leave before the end of August plus another 20 taking the regular early retirement at the end of the year plus another ~25 hitting 65 this year for over 100 total.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Let’s Go Brandon
notwhoyouthinkIam
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

Jazz is being forced to recall twice as many pilots as they actually need.

Because they don't have the ability to train their pilots on the ERJ, they need to recall SkyRegional pilots who are less senior than those at the top of the recall list. For every pilot they recall out of order, they must recall an additional pilot from the top of the recall list.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by rudder »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:32 pm Jazz is being forced to recall twice as many pilots as they actually need.

Because they don't have the ability to train their pilots on the ERJ, they need to recall SkyRegional pilots who are less senior than those at the top of the recall list. For every pilot they recall out of order, they must recall an additional pilot from the top of the recall list.
Jazz will be a lot closer to 2019 capacity (SKV included) than AC by summer 2022.

Jazz is a ‘North America’ carrier only.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”