No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

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Last edited by RippleRock on Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:10 pm "Air Canada recently reached out to your MEC as they worked through the implications of a restart of ACrouge."

Why did they do this? They don't have to... everything that allows them to operated Rouge is already in the Collective Agreement. Clearly they didn't do that just to offer Mainline wawcon.

LCC at Mainline wawcon is stupid anyway. Wash it away and merge the lists. That brings greater economies of scale to the company, better scheduling for the pilots, true unity in our contract again.

I think 300 vacancies is 300 vacancies although I'm unclear on the wording regarding timing based on the bid.

I think double time OT is tone deaf while we have 300 more on the street to recall yet.

"ACPA’s Labour Relations Department will complete the drafting and finalization of terms and conditions over the coming two weeks." - where have I seen this before?

Why are we moving ahead without final language agreed? Why are we amending our CA without a membership vote?

I suspect that there is more yet to drop here when we see the final language. For example why haven't we seen the vacation buyback contract violation addressed in the newsletter? Clearly it's part of this. There will be more to come...
ACPA has been trading horses for donkeys since 2003.

Unfortunately the donkey we get in return dies more often than not. Then were left with nothing.

We should all be used to it by this point.
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alkaseltzer
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by alkaseltzer »

RippleRock wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:53 am
altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:10 pm "Air Canada recently reached out to your MEC as they worked through the implications of a restart of ACrouge."

Why did they do this? They don't have to... everything that allows them to operated Rouge is already in the Collective Agreement. Clearly they didn't do that just to offer Mainline wawcon.

LCC at Mainline wawcon is stupid anyway. Wash it away and merge the lists. That brings greater economies of scale to the company, better scheduling for the pilots, true unity in our contract again.

I think 300 vacancies is 300 vacancies although I'm unclear on the wording regarding timing based on the bid.

I think double time OT is tone deaf while we have 300 more on the street to recall yet.

"ACPA’s Labour Relations Department will complete the drafting and finalization of terms and conditions over the coming two weeks." - where have I seen this before?

Why are we moving ahead without final language agreed? Why are we amending our CA without a membership vote?

I suspect that there is more yet to drop here when we see the final language. For example why haven't we seen the vacation buyback contract violation addressed in the newsletter? Clearly it's part of this. There will be more to come...
ACPA has been trading horses for donkeys since 2003.

Unfortunately the donkey we get in return dies more often than not. Then were left with nothing.

We should all be used to it by this point.
Which horses?
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Dry Guy
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Dry Guy »

Fanblade wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:15 am So did ACPA give a let? Yes or No?
Second hand info but according to someone that contacted the union it was a 2 month let to capture some cargo flying.
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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

alkaseltzer wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:41 pm
RippleRock wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:53 am
altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:10 pm "Air Canada recently reached out to your MEC as they worked through the implications of a restart of ACrouge."

Why did they do this? They don't have to... everything that allows them to operated Rouge is already in the Collective Agreement. Clearly they didn't do that just to offer Mainline wawcon.

LCC at Mainline wawcon is stupid anyway. Wash it away and merge the lists. That brings greater economies of scale to the company, better scheduling for the pilots, true unity in our contract again.

I think 300 vacancies is 300 vacancies although I'm unclear on the wording regarding timing based on the bid.

I think double time OT is tone deaf while we have 300 more on the street to recall yet.

"ACPA’s Labour Relations Department will complete the drafting and finalization of terms and conditions over the coming two weeks." - where have I seen this before?

Why are we moving ahead without final language agreed? Why are we amending our CA without a membership vote?

I suspect that there is more yet to drop here when we see the final language. For example why haven't we seen the vacation buyback contract violation addressed in the newsletter? Clearly it's part of this. There will be more to come...
ACPA has been trading horses for donkeys since 2003.

Unfortunately the donkey we get in return dies more often than not. Then were left with nothing.

We should all be used to it by this point.
Which horses?
Exactly.

That is exactly why were are the "low hanging fruit" among employee groups. Short memories.

We haven't actually traded anything for anything during the bargaining process over the past 20 years, and we've always come out even, or slightly better. :roll:
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Dias
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Dias »

Worse than even. Inflation is now at 3.7%
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Fanblade
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Fanblade »

RippleRock wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:07 am
alkaseltzer wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:41 pm
RippleRock wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:53 am

ACPA has been trading horses for donkeys since 2003.

Unfortunately the donkey we get in return dies more often than not. Then were left with nothing.

We should all be used to it by this point.
Which horses?
Exactly.

That is exactly why were are the "low hanging fruit" among employee groups. Short memories.

We haven't actually traded anything for anything during the bargaining process over the past 20 years, and we've always come out even, or slightly better. :roll:
Also gotta call you on the we came out even comment.

Some of our wages are down almost 30% adjusted for inflation, since 2003.

Bankruptcy Protection accounts for 15% of that. 20% for the 320.

How did the rest happen?

All of these happened AFTER CCAA and in the last decade. And despite what some ACPA shills may say? ACPA freely negotiated ALL of them. Yes the membership voted TA1 down. ACPA negotiated it and pushed for a yes vote. It was only later that an arbitrator forced upon us what ACPA had negotiated for us. Some ACPA historical rewriters try to use the arbitration to avoid accountability.

ACPA BS. “No no, we didn’t cut pay. An arbitrator did it.” Truth “No the arbitrator imposed what ACPA negotiated.”

- DB pension give away
- Formula pay altered to reduce FO and RP wages.
- New hire pay expanded to 4 years.
- Rouge pay discounts.
- Cargo pay discounts
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

Fanblade wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:36 am
RippleRock wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:07 am
alkaseltzer wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:41 pm

Which horses?
Exactly.

That is exactly why were are the "low hanging fruit" among employee groups. Short memories.

We haven't actually traded anything for anything during the bargaining process over the past 20 years, and we've always come out even, or slightly better. :roll:
Also gotta call you on the we came out even comment.

Some of our wages are down almost 30% adjusted for inflation, since 2003.

Bankruptcy Protection accounts for 15% of that. 20% for the 320.

How did the rest happen?

All of these happened AFTER CCAA and in the last decade. And despite what some ACPA shills may say? ACPA freely negotiated ALL of them. Yes the membership voted TA1 down. ACPA negotiated it and pushed for a yes vote. It was only later that an arbitrator forced upon us what ACPA had negotiated for us. Some ACPA historical rewriters try to use the arbitration to avoid accountability.

ACPA BS. “No no, we didn’t cut pay. An arbitrator did it.” Truth “No the arbitrator imposed what ACPA negotiated.”

- DB pension give away
- Formula pay altered to reduce FO and RP wages.
- New hire pay expanded to 4 years.
- Rouge pay discounts.
- Cargo pay discounts
I read the "even" comment as sarcasm...

Because that's what most members here think we have achieved and accept as all we can expect to achieve, even though in fact we keep going backwards every time our association makes an announcement of a MOA/AIP/TA/LOU...

We'd fair better unrepresented than ACPA represented.

Absolute incompetence is all I have seen from them. They do not believe in advancing our wages or working conditions.
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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

Pure sarcasm. There is no "green font".

Those who don't realize that ---every single time---- we go into negotiations on anything...... MOU's included, we come out poorer as a group. Every single time we either sacrifice precious unity or WACON for meager gains. We soon forget and move on to setting the bar even LOWER. Thanks "yes men".

It is NEVER an even trade.
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NotDirty!
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by NotDirty! »

RippleRock wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:27 pm Pure sarcasm. There is no "green font".

Those who don't realize that ---every single time---- we go into negotiations on anything...... MOU's included, we come out poorer as a group. Every single time we either sacrifice precious unity or WACON for meager gains. We soon forget and move on to setting the bar even LOWER. Thanks "yes men".

It is NEVER an even trade.
Well according to the poll on the other forum, everyone there would have voted “yes” to this deal, so it must be good!
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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

NotDirty! wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:48 pm
RippleRock wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:27 pm Pure sarcasm. There is no "green font".

Those who don't realize that ---every single time---- we go into negotiations on anything...... MOU's included, we come out poorer as a group. Every single time we either sacrifice precious unity or WACON for meager gains. We soon forget and move on to setting the bar even LOWER. Thanks "yes men".

It is NEVER an even trade.
Well according to the poll on the other forum, everyone there would have voted “yes” to this deal, so it must be good!
I would agree. For all the good voting "no" has ever done.....which is nothing. What's the point.

We seem --pretty content-- with our plummeting purchasing power and complete absence of unity.
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hithere
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by hithere »

Ripplerock,
You seem painfully out of touch with the majority of your Voting brethren. You come on this forum to vent and pontificate to a handful of like minded souls yet literally nothing will be gained here other than a few “attaboys” from said posters. Nothing you propose here will ever make it to even an agenda item at an ACPA LEC meeting i because you are an outlier with a limited following. You already work for the highest paying airline in Canada. Clearly that is not enough for you. Let’s say you were to somehow get pay parity with one of the American carriers that you so admire. Would that be enough then? Of course not. Next goal: let’s be the highest paid carrier in North America! Would that be enough? No of course not! At some point money and “prestige” does not buy happiness. Calm the f$ck down and enjoy life and have a drink or go get a hobby.
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

hithere wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:54 pm Ripplerock,
You seem painfully out of touch with the majority of your Voting brethren. You come on this forum to vent and pontificate to a handful of like minded souls yet literally nothing will be gained here other than a few “attaboys” from said posters. Nothing you propose here will ever make it to even an agenda item at an ACPA LEC meeting i because you are an outlier with a limited following. You already work for the highest paying airline in Canada. Clearly that is not enough for you. Let’s say you were to somehow get pay parity with one of the American carriers that you so admire. Would that be enough then? Of course not. Next goal: let’s be the highest paid carrier in North America! Would that be enough? No of course not! At some point money and “prestige” does not buy happiness. Calm the f$ck down and enjoy life and have a drink or go get a hobby.
Nothing like settling for mediocrity.

I can't believe you take pride in trashing on people that advocate for better for themselves and you.

You'd be happy at the highest paying airline in Burma I'm sure.

You're a professional disgrace. You lack respect for the position and those that came before us and you lack value for yourself and those that will follow.

"Highest paid carrier in North America" - what's wrong with that? Don't you think you deserve it or at least close to it? Most productive Pilot group among large carriers in NA. Most CPA departures by ratio we have given. Most bent over eager to please. What's out all for? You're a fucking embarrassment to yourself, get with the program.
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hithere
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by hithere »

ok but the vast majority of your coworkers disagree with you. so I guess you will just be miserable for the rest of you life?
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

hithere wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:18 pm ok but the vast majority of your coworkers disagree with you. so I guess you will just be miserable for the rest of you life?
What? Ignorance is bliss? Is that it?

Vast majority are disconnected, ignorant, apathetic. That's a problem of leadership.

You're actively stupid. Can't fix that. GFYS.
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hithere
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by hithere »

Next time you are at the hockey rink with your kid and someone asks you”why are you so unhappy” ? You be sure to tell them: I am an Air Canada Pilot dammit! I should be paid so much more! If I was then I’d be happy
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

That's your false narrative.

Super full life apart from this profession today and before I came here, that's why it's so hard to see the failure that is you and this association.

You're an apologist, a shill, a sychophant. GFYS.
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redbusdriver
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by redbusdriver »

"Highest paid carrier in North America" - what's wrong with that?
why stop there? should be best paid in the world no?
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

redbusdriver wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:55 am
"Highest paid carrier in North America" - what's wrong with that?
why stop there? should be best paid in the world no?
You're right! Worst is the new best!

Improvements and contract gains are for losers!

I love being a company dicksucker and bending over every time they come along asking for something!

Pay, QOL, scope, contract protections... they can keep it!

My ACPA rep can tell me about the great restaurant and Leafs game from the box seats they went to when they gave it up. That's awesome, the company reps are so our friends! Glad to see they show our guys a good time. Love being a cheap date!

Less is more and I'll be happy with it! Yay!

GFYS.
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lee123
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by lee123 »

hithere wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:54 pm Ripplerock,
You seem painfully out of touch with the majority of your Voting brethren. You come on this forum to vent and pontificate to a handful of like minded souls yet literally nothing will be gained here other than a few “attaboys” from said posters. Nothing you propose here will ever make it to even an agenda item at an ACPA LEC meeting i because you are an outlier with a limited following. You already work for the highest paying airline in Canada. Clearly that is not enough for you. Let’s say you were to somehow get pay parity with one of the American carriers that you so admire. Would that be enough then? Of course not. Next goal: let’s be the highest paid carrier in North America! Would that be enough? No of course not! At some point money and “prestige” does not buy happiness. Calm the f$ck down and enjoy life and have a drink or go get a hobby.
Shame on you
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