No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

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fish4life
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by fish4life »

I seriously doubt there will be new hires until there is a substantial return to the Asian market
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Montroyal
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Montroyal »

Lt. Daniel Kaffee wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:20 pm The CMSC Bid will be coming out today (02-Nov-21) and it is large.
I don't know what I am more excited about:

- a big bid

- or the fact ACPA's Baghdad Bob is back with gospel from the YUL Facebook Page (now the official source of info)
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asleep_at_the_yoke
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by asleep_at_the_yoke »

fish4life wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:22 pm I seriously doubt there will be new hires until there is a substantial return to the Asian market
That's not really how it works. If there's vacancies, they get filled.
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imjustlurking
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by imjustlurking »

asleep_at_the_yoke wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:58 pm
fish4life wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:22 pm I seriously doubt there will be new hires until there is a substantial return to the Asian market
That's not really how it works. If there's vacancies, they get filled.
You guys are yanking the same side of the rope.

Fish4life is saying that they don't believe that there will be enough demand to warrant the hiring until the Asian market returns and you are saying that when there is enough demand to warrant hiring, they will hire.
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rudder
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by rudder »

BTD wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:57 am In addition to the 1 787 showing in the fleet plan, there is this note in the MD & A

Air Canada exercised options for the purchase of three Boeing 787-9 aircraft which are scheduled to be delivered in 2022 and in 2023. The table in section 7.8 “Contractual Obligations” contains the additional three Boeing 787-9 aircraft.

Up 3 787s down one 777 from pre covid. Obviously down a bunch of rouge 767s, but contractually those were considered narrow body.
Interesting that there are very few WB CA vacancies in the bid. Majority of vacancies are NB.

2022 retirements must have been factored in to previous bid.
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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

Does anyone have the retirement numbers for 2021?
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JoeyBarton
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by JoeyBarton »

RippleRock wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:21 am Does anyone have the retirement numbers for 2021?
If the forward looking eligibility list for Jan 22 is any indication, about 100 retirements including erips.
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Lt. Daniel Kaffee
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Lt. Daniel Kaffee »

or the fact ACPA's Baghdad Bob...
You are so blinded with your misplaced anger that you have no idea what you're talking about and resort to childish ad hominem attacks.

I have never been a member of any ACPA committee or executive...never been a member of any Facebook group...

I was merely passing along some information, but only you and your fellow trolls can turn that into something negative.

So nice try...

Start up another thread and complain about how everyone (but esp ACPA) is out to get you, ruin your life, and ruin the lives of every other pilot in Canada and the world.
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accountant
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by accountant »

asleep_at_the_yoke wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:59 am
Instead of you know... Being adults and instead of saying "what about them" worry about themselves. Last time I checked it doesn't take 75k and ten years to get to AC as an FA.
Entitlement much? That's basically any 4 year undergrad degree now in Canada with living expenses included and a student loan. Yet most of those degrees other than engineering, education, nursing, med school still end up working in coffee shops. Heck that's a cheap MBA. And what does that get you? A place in a job line.

If you were paying 200K towards learning to fly a big bird you might have something to say, but your expense is basically par for the course for any signficant undergrad degree where you don't work and focus 100% on your education.

(Or 2 years of undergrad at any US college.... and look how MURICA turned out)
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accountant
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by accountant »

asleep_at_the_yoke wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:01 pm Not short sighted, they just didn't give a shit about the 600 furloughs.
Pretty sure they were more concerned about the optics of still taking CEWS while also negotiating a bigger bailout package and going to market for more financing. Once it was more in the news that AC was one of the bigger takers of CEWS (but before the bigger deal with the Feds was signed) the 600 furloughs became a drop in the bucket in the bigger picture.
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737Maximilian
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by 737Maximilian »

Given this bid appears to indicate AC's desire to recall sooner than later, for those in the know, what's the expected timeline to get all this training done? Will they be able to recall everyone by the summer, as the CMSC bulletin indicates?
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iflyroads
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by iflyroads »

737Maximilian wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:42 pm Given this bid appears to indicate AC's desire to recall sooner than later, for those in the know, what's the expected timeline to get all this training done? Will they be able to recall everyone by the summer, as the CMSC bulletin indicates?
Exploring training slots around the world.

Looking to have all furloughs back on property (first day of training) by June-July 2022.
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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

Lt. Daniel Kaffee wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:21 pm
or the fact ACPA's Baghdad Bob...
You are so blinded with your misplaced anger that you have no idea what you're talking about and resort to childish ad hominem attacks.

I have never been a member of any ACPA committee or executive...never been a member of any Facebook group...

I was merely passing along some information, but only you and your fellow trolls can turn that into something negative.

So nice try...

Start up another thread and complain about how everyone (but esp ACPA) is out to get you, ruin your life, and ruin the lives of every other pilot in Canada and the world.
LOL.

Ouch, someone struck a nerve. Pretty sensitive about the "Bagdad Bob" comment to be entirely "disinvested".

Consider your bluff called.
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RightPlaceWrongTime
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RightPlaceWrongTime »

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Last edited by RightPlaceWrongTime on Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
737Maximilian
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by 737Maximilian »

iflyroads wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:38 pm Exploring training slots around the world.

Looking to have all furloughs back on property (first day of training) by June-July 2022.
Thanks for the info - very encouraging news!

Any insight into how the recall process is going to work? Will they stay with 100 pilot blocks, or will we all be able to bid once the vacancies are known post 21-03?
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bob99
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by bob99 »

iflyroads wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:38 pm
Exploring training slots around the world.

Looking to have all furloughs back on property (first day of training) by June-July 2022.
That's rather ambitious (incredible if true though).
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newlygrounded
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by newlygrounded »

RightPlaceWrongTime wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:13 am After the latest bid I think many of us are feeling a small sense of optimism. After getting raw dogged by the company for the last 1.5 years I know better than to get my hopes up. I personally won't believe anything until my bum is in a seat again.

With that said I am wondering what most people are thinking with regards to a full recall timeline?

Pilots have yet to be trained from previous bids and now we are showing 600+ vacancies.

Jazz pilots are already itching to get their foot in the door and we have only recalled 1/6th of our furloughs. Either hiring is about to pick up massively or we are in store for another major let down.

Time will tell.
let down are probably the best two words to describe the industry in Canada
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iflyroads
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by iflyroads »

737Maximilian wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:27 pm
iflyroads wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:38 pm Exploring training slots around the world.

Looking to have all furloughs back on property (first day of training) by June-July 2022.
Thanks for the info - very encouraging news!

Any insight into how the recall process is going to work? Will they stay with 100 pilot blocks, or will we all be able to bid once the vacancies are known post 21-03?

Awaiting bid close and results for a concrete plan
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737Maximilian
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by 737Maximilian »

iflyroads wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:29 am Awaiting bid close and results for a concrete plan
Thanks - I appreciate the info!
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aeronauticaldisaster
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by aeronauticaldisaster »

aeronauticaldisaster wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:10 pm
Counterpoint wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:38 pm
737Maximilian wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:30 am

Uh what?

If we compare bottom of the list AC to bottom of the list AT, their pilots received an extra year and a bit (or $30k) worth of CEWS. They will likely be back to flying a year earlier too. And to top it all off, their first four years of pay is significantly higher than AC's flat pay. When you count three years of furlough and four years of flat pay, I would bet AC pilots are well over $100,000 behind their AT counterparts.

Please explain to me how furloughed AC pilots have suffered less?
Members far more harmed….not furloughed pilots far more harmed. AC let go 15%, AT let go almost 90% of all their pilots (at one point).
This is literally the last line of messaging defense for ACPA...but...but..."we negotiated ONLY 15% layoffs..."

We were down to 55 hrs...55 hrs!! I mean flat pay pilot at 55 hrs...what does that even equate to? Starbucks barista starting wage??



Counterpoint,

What did the ACPA Staff do during our "darkest hour"? Did they take an equivalent pay cut? Were they "flying the line" around the globe during a pandemic or cuddling up under a blanket at their cottage?

What about the 15% who mostly STILL aren't back? Do you at least sign them up for the "Jelly Bean of the month" club?
Counterpoint, I am still awaiting for a response.

Now Flight Ops posts a memo stating they are at "full capacity" with the "most extensive training year that Flight ops has ever experienced" and that it is CRITICAL pilots are available to cover flying because of some boogeyman airlines entering the market. (There always has to be some external threat)

So - again I ask, what has ACPA done?

You think the company would have actually laid off MORE pilots? How on earth would that have been possible. They can't even meet the demand of the training plan with the "mitigated layoffs". They are buying MORE planes.

It is pretty obvious we just handed over pilot salaries.

Again I ask - what did the ACPA staff do?

They recommended temporary and PERMENANT pay concessions while what pay cuts did they take themselves?

Do you see insanity of this "union"? They couldn't cost out a kindergartener hot lunch program let alone the training costs of an airline

I am awaiting for the union "we are disappointed that furloughs cant come back soon but please take overtime to cover the flying as the training system is too busy to train them" memo.

Standing by
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