No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

Yes welcome back, however, when you were gone, and couldn't voice your opinion on things, our "wonderful custodians and unfailing crusaders" of our contract changed your future a bit...again.

This was done in fine ACPA tradition. Welcome to "best fit reserve" and "hourly POR's"........enjoy.

The "widebody leadership" at your union who would likely never sit it, thought thought it a fine permanent concession to make on your behalf. What did you get for it? What do you think.

If you're sick and tired of your MEC making backroom deals and slipping permanent turds into the contract, vote for change. There are three NMEC seats up for grabs.
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NotDirty!
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by NotDirty! »

RippleRock wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:06 am Welcome to "best fit reserve" and "hourly POR's"........enjoy.
For the commuter who now has to sit reserve, this sounds like a “best fit” for that awesome motel at Dixie and Derry with hourly rates! Because why bother paying for the whole night when you just need an hour or two.
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bob99
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by bob99 »

iflyroads wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:19 am Some recall emails being sent out today.

Congrats to those who have received/will receive them.
Almost 60 guys bypassed too. Recalls for the first 102 spots rolled down all the way to about #160 on the list.
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iflyroads
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by iflyroads »

bob99 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:17 pm
iflyroads wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:19 am Some recall emails being sent out today.

Congrats to those who have received/will receive them.
Almost 60 guys bypassed too. Recalls for the first 102 spots rolled down all the way to about #160 on the list.


Correct.

Expecting the next ~100 spots to be available for bidding around December. With recall emails for them going out in the new year.

Hopefully I'm wrong and it's sooner.
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alkaseltzer
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by alkaseltzer »

bob99 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:17 pm
iflyroads wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:19 am Some recall emails being sent out today.

Congrats to those who have received/will receive them.
Almost 60 guys bypassed too. Recalls for the first 102 spots rolled down all the way to about #160 on the list.
Where is this published? PM if you can.
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bob99
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by bob99 »

It's not published. This is from talking with those people directly. But it should be on the next training report.
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RightPlaceWrongTime
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RightPlaceWrongTime »

Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.
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imjustlurking
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by imjustlurking »

RightPlaceWrongTime wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:26 pm Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.
Are you saying that AC is not the best airline in Canada?
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TheStig
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by TheStig »

RightPlaceWrongTime wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:26 pm Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.

The history of TA1, the Group of 27, the membership upheaval and the Final Offer Selection is fairly well covered here and well known by the membership. What isn't often recognized is that the foundation of ACPA was forged in the Furloughs of the early 90's. It was well before my time, but I've certainly flown with enough pilots who lived through ACPA first 10 years to see the similarities to the current environment. Pilots furloughed became long standing, high profile, key figures for 30+ years and counting and the majority of the despised Group of 27. It's almost like Harvey Dents' quote in the Dark Knight, "You can either die a Hero and live long enough to become a Villain." So while I like all the things P4C are saying, many of us feel like we've seen and heard this all before.
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RRJetPilot
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RRJetPilot »

RightPlaceWrongTime wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:26 pm Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.
I did not get laid off but feel the same way. ACPA and MM has completely failed us.
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asleep_at_the_yoke
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by asleep_at_the_yoke »

RightPlaceWrongTime wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:26 pm Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.
If this was Reddit I'd literally pay money to give you gold. Couldn't have said it better.
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200Above
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by 200Above »

RightPlaceWrongTime wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:26 pm Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.
Articulated beautifully. I would have expected this from my previous employers (or other companies in general), but not AC. I thought this place was above all that.

Shame on me, as I continue to be heavily disappointed with how we have been treated.
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a220hereicome
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by a220hereicome »

RippleRock wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:06 am Welcome to "best fit reserve" and "hourly POR's"........enjoy.

The "widebody leadership" at your union who would likely never sit it, thought thought it a fine permanent concession to make on your behalf. What did you get for it? What do you think.
RippleRock.

I'll tell you what we got for it.

I've been on reserve for most of COVID, and to me, the new rules are much better. Most of my days off in a reserve month are guaranteed now, including a block of four straight days. And I'll be paid 5 hours more each month (when I don't fly out which is most of the time).

For this, in certain cases I'll have less control over being able to pass on a specific pairing, on days I'm supposed to be available to fly.

This wasn't given away. It was negotiated.

Before, it was, "Don't plan anything next month honey, I'm on reserve."

Now it's, "I'm on reserve, but here are four blocks of days where we can plan something."
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

Best fit only started this month. So how is it that you have been working under it all through covid?

You now have zero control on the type of flying you do, the company controls your reserve availability periods without any say from you.

No more passing trips you don't want or selecting trips you want. You are completely under the whim of the scheduler.

This was a huge give, and very notable that the membership was never asked or surveyed on a completely new reserve system.

You say that we get few hours more guarantee? Not only would I not trade my lifestyle for a few hours pay, they will now be so much more efficient that pays for more than a few hours to us and it will save them a pile of money. Not to mention that once they get it dialed in they will work it out that you will earn all that guarantee... guarantee will be irrelevant because you will be at work the whole time anyway.
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Inverted2
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Inverted2 »

We’ve had “best fit” at Jazz for about 10 years. Basically when someone in crew scheduling calls, you have to go in. No picking flying you like or passing. It sucks if you’re senior. You could have 5 junior pilots to you but if you have 3 days of reserve and there’s a 3 day pairing, off you go. Crew scheduling owns you more or less.
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by asleep_at_the_yoke »

Inverted2 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:53 am We’ve had “best fit” at Jazz for about 10 years. Basically when someone in crew scheduling calls, you have to go in. No picking flying you like or passing. It sucks if you’re senior. You could have 5 junior pilots to you but if you have 3 days of reserve and there’s a 3 day pairing, off you go. Crew scheduling owns you more or less.
The best fit you have at Jazz is NOTHING like the dumpster fire of an agreement our negotiating committee came up with.

I lived the Jazz best fit life for a few years and it wasn't bad at all. Biddable RAPs, blockholder rights etc are a huge difference. Plus you are wrong, I passed on flying a lot. I can count on one hand the amount of times I was truely forced to fly via best fit. AC is assigning RAPs we can't bid them, and up to 10-15 different ones per day all an hour apart so they can say everyone is best fit all the time.

It's total bullshit.

I'd take jazzs system any day.
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asleep_at_the_yoke
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by asleep_at_the_yoke »

altiplano wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:30 am Best fit only started this month. So how is it that you have been working under it all through covid?

You now have zero control on the type of flying you do, the company controls your reserve availability periods without any say from you.

No more passing trips you don't want or selecting trips you want. You are completely under the whim of the scheduler.

This was a huge give, and very notable that the membership was never asked or surveyed on a completely new reserve system.

You say that we get few hours more guarantee? Not only would I not trade my lifestyle for a few hours pay, they will now be so much more efficient that pays for more than a few hours to us and it will save them a pile of money. Not to mention that once they get it dialed in they will work it out that you will earn all that guarantee... guarantee will be irrelevant because you will be at work the whole time anyway.
Not to mention the few extra hours pay doesn't mean anything anymore because we all get 900 annual guarantee now. Including reserve.
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a220hereicome
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by a220hereicome »

altiplano wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:30 am Best fit only started this month. So how is it that you have been working under it all through covid?
Didn't say that.

I said I've been on reserve for most of the last year and a half. All of that was obviously under the old rules, which means I have a good understanding of how crappy the old rules were. Old reserve rules = no ability to plan anything in your month.

The new rules give me the ability to build a family calendar with way more certainty.

Under the old rules, I didn't plan events on days I was on reserve, because I could be called out to fly. But I couldn't really plan much on days off that were 'optional' either. They would always slide.

At least now I have the ability to plan on my days off, which are more guaranteed.
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a220hereicome
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by a220hereicome »

asleep_at_the_yoke wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:00 am
Not to mention the few extra hours pay doesn't mean anything anymore because we all get 900 annual guarantee now. Including reserve.
Sorry, don't buy that argument.

900 hours works out to 75 hours/month. When we spool up again, and are chronically short again (and we all know it's coming), we'll all be blocked to 85 hours/month. Which means you'll be paid 83 hours on reserve, instead of 78 hours.

The Company signed the 900 hour guarantee because they know they won't have to pay it. We're going to be flying way more than 900 hours/year.
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dumpsterfire
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by dumpsterfire »

This place is such a dumpster fire that the government had to come in, fix our reserve system, and yet somehow we walked away with this crap

Of course you got guaranteed days off now - THE GOVERNMENT MADE IT SO

Only in ACPALand can a government imposed policy be sold as an ACPA WIN TO THE MEMBERSHIP

The election was great, the membership demonstrated what they want, they want this dumpster fire out
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