Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[737Maximilian]

We've had this problem for many years before even COVID.

Agreed. Hopefully this past election will point the government in the right direction.

In fact the more we keep saying vaccinated people still need masks the more anyone who doesn’t want a vaccine just reinforces their beliefs that the vaccine isn’t great.

We can't base our policy around the few who refuse to get properly informed.

Do you seriously think the vaccinated will overwhelm hospitals if they stop masking?

No I don't, but the unvaccinated certainly will. Look at the results of Alberta's summer strategy.

We're working on the margins here. The vaccinated can still transmit the disease to the unvaccinated, who as you noted, are much more likely to have a severe reaction to the disease and take up ICU beds. This is why we still see a mask policy in most parts of this country.

[ikarus]

Asking nicely didn't work, so the careless needed to be compelled.

You should be a great leader of future SSS division in Canada. Compelling your fellow colleagues to take something inside their body that may or may not work. That still does not prevent transmission or that you can still die.

Insteresting data from US today. Over 67% of population vaccinated, but so far a higher death toll from covid then in 2020. And we still have almost 3 months left. Intersting..

You visibly have a Big Zero F@cking Understanding about vaccins in general and SS atrocities in particular.
How did you even survive to what ever age you are now without getting badly hurt, sick or killed with such a warped vision of the world?


Dummies like you are Darwin awards on the wait.

Listen dude, it's tough for me to explain you my vison, when you lived all your life in Canada, sheltered and protected from harsh reality. My wife has seen war first hand, my parents took in 3 refugee families when we lived in a 45m2 apartment in the early 90s..I've seen footages on national tv during the civil war that you only got to see in Cineplex watching a horror flick probably. I seen media first hand spill lies on both sides of the front, I've seen how western media manipulated the public in the west. I grew up through hiper inflation that makes the one in a Argentina during 90s look like a joke. Our bills had 12 zeros at one point. No, I'm not talking Zimbabwe inflation either. I lived through rolling power and water outages too... That lasted for over a year...

So it's really tough for me to explain to you, growing up in this beautiful country of Canada, that you are being taken for a ride for the last 18 months... And as Palebird said, the economical fallout and energy crisis that is about the hit us all, will be a true test of how prepared we are.

I've been overseas for the past 6 months and life in this part of the world has been more or less normal, apart from obvious indoor mask use. And vaccination rate is stuck at under 50% (if I were to believe the government here, which I don't) and you know what.... Life is normal. People are back to work, kids are in schools, people travelled to summer destinations in bigger numbers them before 2019...And most importantly, no one is forcing me to get this jab because its against the constitution. So I can understand you are angry at me when I mention the SSS unit, as you feel you have the right or obligation to coerce others into submisson over taking a jab so that I or someone else can continue providing food on the table for my kids. Believe me buddy, I'm being too nice to you, as people like you are a direct threat to my families existence with that kind of an attitude.

[montado]

We've had this problem for many years before even COVID.

Agreed. Hopefully this past election will point the government in the right direction.

In fact the more we keep saying vaccinated people still need masks the more anyone who doesn’t want a vaccine just reinforces their beliefs that the vaccine isn’t great.

We can't base our policy around the few who refuse to get properly informed.

Do you seriously think the vaccinated will overwhelm hospitals if they stop masking?

No I don't, but the unvaccinated certainly will. Look at the results of Alberta's summer strategy.

We're working on the margins here. The vaccinated can still transmit the disease to the unvaccinated, who as you noted, are much more likely to have a severe reaction to the disease and take up ICU beds. This is why we still see a mask policy in most parts of this country.

But we currently do base our policy around the unvaccinated, at least that’s what we are told. Why else are we wearing masks… or maybe the plan is once everyone is vaccinated, we will still have mask rules for (insert any reason).

So you don’t think vaccinated people will overwhelm the health system with no mask wearing by them, but you support mandatory mask policy for the vaccinated. Hmm. Seems logical.

[737Maximilian]

But we currently do base our policy around the unvaccinated, at least that’s what we are told. Why else are we wearing masks… or maybe the plan is once everyone is vaccinated, we will still have mask rules for (insert any reason).

We're basing our policy around protecting the unvaccinated, not on their beliefs.

So you don’t think vaccinated people will overwhelm the health system with no mask wearing by them, but you support mandatory mask policy for the vaccinated. Hmm. Seems logical.

Vaccinated people can still spread the disease. Unvaccinated people can still overwhelm the hospital system. How do we reduce the number of transmissions, even just marginally: a mask policy. I'm not sure if I can explain this any more clearly.

I've been overseas for the past 6 months and life in this part of the world has been more or less normal, apart from obvious indoor mask use.

Hadn't we already established your country's daily mortality rate is proportionally higher than Canada's by a significant magnitude?

Not sure this is the ideal situation we should be striving for.

[imjustlurking]

When it comes down to it, get your jab and keep your job, or refuse it and lose it.

[montado]

When it comes down to it, get your jab and keep your job, or refuse it and lose it.

Nah, LOA. No pilot is losing their job, they can get vaccinated any time and come back from LOA at any time.

[garfield]

Nice and could you take a LOA of 25 years? Just to be sure about long terms side effects

[imjustlurking]

When it comes down to it, get your jab and keep your job, or refuse it and lose it.

Nah, LOA. No pilot is losing their job, they can get vaccinated any time and come back from LOA at any time.

LOL You think that you can go on indefinite leave and return whenever you feel like it?

Some Canadian airlines have already put a termination date into effect. Jab for job or refuse and lose.

[ikarus]

I've been overseas for the past 6 months and life in this part of the world has been more or less normal, apart from obvious indoor mask use.

Hadn't we already established your country's daily mortality rate is proportionally higher than Canada's by a significant magnitude?

Not sure this is the ideal situation we should be striving for.
[/quote]

Not ideal, its acceptable risk for a country that has been through a lot in the past three decades. Canada is a wonderland if you tried to compare it to this place. So yes, linear death toll comparison won't work here. Just like in the US...

[TG]

You should be a great leader of future SSS division in Canada. Compelling your fellow colleagues to take something inside their body that may or may not work. That still does not prevent transmission or that you can still die.

Insteresting data from US today. Over 67% of population vaccinated, but so far a higher death toll from covid then in 2020. And we still have almost 3 months left. Intersting..

You visibly have a Big Zero F@cking Understanding about vaccins in general and SS atrocities in particular.
How did you even survive to what ever age you are now without getting badly hurt, sick or killed with such a warped vision of the world?


Dummies like you are Darwin awards on the wait.

Listen dude, it's tough for me to explain you my vison, when you lived all your life in Canada, sheltered and protected from harsh reality. My wife has seen war first hand, my parents took in 3 refugee families when we lived in a 45m2 apartment in the early 90s..I've seen footages on national tv during the civil war that you only got to see in Cineplex watching a horror flick probably. I seen media first hand spill lies on both sides of the front, I've seen how western media manipulated the public in the west. I grew up through hiper inflation that makes the one in a Argentina during 90s look like a joke. Our bills had 12 zeros at one point. No, I'm not talking Zimbabwe inflation either. I lived through rolling power and water outages too... That lasted for over a year...

So it's really tough for me to explain to you, growing up in this beautiful country of Canada, that you are being taken for a ride for the last 18 months... And as Palebird said, the economical fallout and energy crisis that is about the hit us all, will be a true test of how prepared we are.

I've been overseas for the past 6 months and life in this part of the world has been more or less normal, apart from obvious indoor mask use. And vaccination rate is stuck at under 50% (if I were to believe the government here, which I don't) and you know what.... Life is normal. People are back to work, kids are in schools, people travelled to summer destinations in bigger numbers them before 2019...And most importantly, no one is forcing me to get this jab because its against the constitution. So I can understand you are angry at me when I mention the SSS unit, as you feel you have the right or obligation to coerce others into submisson over taking a jab so that I or someone else can continue providing food on the table for my kids. Believe me buddy, I'm being too nice to you, as people like you are a direct threat to my families existence with that kind of an attitude.

No, I am simply loosing patience at failing to steer you away from your "weird convictions"

Yes, Canada is a living safety heaven (Forgot about lockdown, mask and else. It's not much of a burden comparing to some other stuff happening in the third world)

And I am a lot more open minded than you would think:
Dual citizenship, not born in the country I am citizen to, living in a fourth one, add flying totally elsewhere on top of that.
The one I was born and partially grew up had its fair share of coups d'états but I am very fortunately not claiming seing war first hand. Each coup would simply equal to closed school for a few days to a "happy about it young dumb me" (Not realizing the madness associated to it)

Ignorance is bliss sometime....




Unless you are talking about something else, it is not "SSS" but "SS" (Or Waffen-SS)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel

[ikarus]

If you truly are open minded, you wouldn't be insulting me in the first place ... But let's try to be civil, because I don't talk to my colleagues in the flight deck like that, and I would say you don't either.

If you are open minded as you say, then you would be understanding of someone else's position on injecting themselves with something that may or may not be beneficial. I am tolerant and old enough to accept people with different views, as long as they don't trespass on my door steps. I lived half of my age in Canada, were we learned to be pretty tolerant to each other unlike in some other parts of the world.

So it is puzzling to me why do you find anyone who is healthy and unvaxed a threat (because asymptomatic transmission is virtually impossible)? Like I said,only yesterday we sat next to each other flying together. Now I am a threat. You got immunity from the jab, I got mine last year by recovering from the illness. And probably had it again not knowing because I didn't get tested every time,as I have small kids who recycle what ever crap they bring over from their day care. I just booked off an stayed home until I got better and isolation time expired.

I apologize from SS comment, but you ticked me off with your comment, I should control my keyboard better next time

[imjustlurking]

If you truly are open minded, you wouldn't be insulting me in the first place ... But let's try to be civil, because I don't talk to my colleagues in the flight deck like that, and I would say you don't either.

If you are open minded as you say, then you would be understanding of someone else's position on injecting themselves with something that may or may not be beneficial. I am tolerant and old enough to accept people with different views, as long as they don't trespass on my door steps. I lived half of my age in Canada, were we learned to be pretty tolerant to each other unlike in some other parts of the world.

So it is puzzling to me why do you find anyone who is healthy and unvaxed a threat (because asymptomatic transmission is virtually impossible)? Like I said,only yesterday we sat next to each other flying together. Now I am a threat. You got immunity from the jab, I got mine last year by recovering from the illness. And probably had it again not knowing because I didn't get tested every time,as I have small kids who recycle what ever crap they bring over from their day care. I just booked off an stayed home until I got better and isolation time expired.

I apologize from SS comment, but you ticked me off with your comment, I should control my keyboard better next time

I have highlighted the arguments in your comment that are factually false. These beliefs that you keep sharing are the reason why people aren't giving you the respect you think you deserve.

Airplanes don't fly by magic and your arguments aren't true.

[ikarus]

You should work for Factchecker.org

I actually talk to a doctor who is a wife of a captain I flew with. She has multiple patients come in her clinic daily in the last week or so, who are triple jabbed and are basically dying she said. "We don't know who to help first, that's how bad it is"

In another hospital an hour from where I used to live, the doctor in charge of covid patients is a high school friend of my mom. She said we get mix patients.. About 50/50... not just unvaccinated like the media portrayed. She had covid last fall, and recovered and is not vaccinated yet, although she believes in vaccines mimd you. But because of her immunity to covid she didn't get it yet. And she works with sick patiens without a mask and those full body suits.

Here's your fact check from the ground...

[RippleRock]

So we now have multiple vaccines that are around 89% to 92% effective that are available to everyone in our country, right now.

Cases are rampant, mask mandates are in full effect. Cross border testing still in effect for those fully vaxxed. Land border shut to non-essential travel with no end in sight, vaxxed or not. Tam stating that the most effective vaccines ever created in history are "not enough to stop this virus". Why bother with anything then....why bother???

Does anyone have any hope that this mask mandate, or any other mandate will ever end for the fully vaxxed? This is a lousy, hopeless time in human history. Especially for our industry. I haven't seen a smiling passengers face in a year and a half. The mumbling through masks to other crew members was already old a year ago.

Anyone else feeing the same?

[imjustlurking]

You should work for Factchecker.org

I actually talk to a doctor who is a wife of a captain I flew with. She has multiple patients come in her clinic daily in the last week or so, who are triple jabbed and are basically dying she said. "We don't know who to help first, that's how bad it is"

In another hospital an hour from where I used to live, the doctor in charge of covid patients is a high school friend of my mom. She said we get mix patients.. About 50/50... not just unvaccinated like the media portrayed. She had covid last fall, and recovered and is not vaccinated yet, although she believes in vaccines mimd you. But because of her immunity to covid she didn't get it yet. And she works with sick patiens without a mask and those full body suits.

Here's your fact check from the ground...

Let's talk statistics for a moment.

If 100 people are in hospital due to COVID and the vaccination rate of those in hospital is 50%, then we know that 50 people there are vaccinated and 50 are not.

Now, let's throw context into the picture. We will consider anybody who is not fully vaccinated (less than 2 doses) to be unvaccinated. With 71% of the entire population of Canada being fully vaccinated (81% of eligible Canadians 12 and older)[source], that means that 29% of Canadians account for 50% of cases. If the vaccine did not work, we would expect to see ~29 unvaccinated individuals and 71 vaccinated.

Now, let's talk actual numbers instead of the out-of-her-ass numbers that you are paraphrasing.


https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data#hospit ... tionStatus

As we can see (in Ontario), 181 non-fully vaccinated people are in hospital (ICU + non-ICU) whereas 53 fully vaccinated people are. That means that 71% of COVID hospitalizations come from 29% of the population.

If you do not understand what I am getting at here, please let me know. I will be glad to try to explain it in a different way.

[ikarus]

Sorry, are you telling me that those two doctors that I have talked to and are working with these patients are talking bs??? Wow you are unbelievable man. But thanks for those charts, I'll make sure to show them, when they catch a break at work

[ikarus]

Here are some charts for you as well.

https://openvaers.com/covid-data/myo-pericarditis

.

[porcsord]

Here are some charts for you as well.

https://openvaers.com/covid-data/myo-pericarditis

.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... are-tactic

Also, for VAERS reported deaths, all deaths after the vaccine, regardless of the cause (car crash) had to be reported even if the vaccine wasn't the direct cause of death or even related to the cause of death.

Also consider that the pill has a higher rate of blood clots than the Astra Vaccine and most people I know are happy to be on that to avoid unwanted pregnancy, let alone death.

[imjustlurking]

Here are some charts for you as well.

https://openvaers.com/covid-data/myo-pericarditis

.

Again, statistics.

VAERS is American. There are 8767 reports in 2021 against the 216,200,000 people in the US who have gotten at least one dose. That means that 0.004% of people who take the vaccine experience myocarditis or pericarditis. Let's compare that to the 732,477 deaths / 45,136,900 confirmed cases giving us a 1.6% chance of dying from COVID. That means that you are more than three times more likely to die from COVID than to have a curable condition set off by the COVID vaccine.

[737Maximilian]

Sorry, are you telling me that those two doctors that I have talked to and are working with these patients are talking bs???

No, but this is totally anecdotal. The quantitative data fully contradicts what they're stating.

In terms of VAERS, it actually shows how rare it is to develop a serious side effect from the vaccine. Do you know what increases your probability of myocarditis/pericarditis significantly more? Catching COVID.

Anyone else feeing the same?

I'm quite optimistic. Ontario and Quebec have kept their cases at a manageable level throughout the fourth wave, without having implemented any undue restrictions. Eventually, herd immunity will be reached one way or another. My hope is it's through mass vaccinations, as we'd return to normalcy earlier and with far less deaths, while lessening the chances of a mutation that would further extend all this, but that's up to the anti-vax crowd now.

The borders are opening up. Flying is coming back. A lot of international flights are now at 80%+ loads.

Don't be defeatist. Clearly you're still flying, so you should be happy about that.