Another Perspective on Retirement

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
Rotten Apple #1
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 915
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:34 am

Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

I hope this CNBC report is deemed relevant to this forum. There is no intent on my part to fan the flames of this contentious topic.
Welcome to the age of the "Nevertirees."

A study of wealthy individuals around the world conducted by Barclays pokes holes in the notion that an individual should stop working at a pre-defined age, as it is more of an illusion than a reality.

The study found that increasingly, the wealthy are rejecting the idea of a traditional retirement—the romanticized golden years filled with leisure—and continuing to work long past their early 60s.

In fact, some retirees are even using this period to embark on entirely new careers or businesses.

According to the Barclays Wealth survey, some 60 percent of respondents said they envision always being involved in commercial or professional work of some kind, whatever their age.

Although for some the decision is driven by the expectation of a longer lifespan and concerns about the accompanying financial uncertainties, there is a good chunk of the group that believe their work is their passion, and to stop would be unthinkable.

While this trend appeared to be global, there were some regional differences. Very few of the wealthy individuals from Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and South Africa ever planned to stop working.

But in Switzerland, Spain and Japan, the majority of the wealthy individuals were looking forward to a more traditional retirement.

In the US, the majority were subscribing to this "new normal" for retirement, with some 54 percent saying they would want to continue working in retirement.

Matt Brady, head of Wealth Advisory at Barclays Wealth Americas, said there are several things going on, starting with the fact that people of retirement age today are healthier and more vital than they used to be.

There also were some financial concerns expressed by the group, which was comprised of 2,000 people from 20 countries with more than $1.5 million each in investable assets. Among them, 200 had more than $15 million in investable assets.

The group felt confident that they could predict their daily expenses in retirement, but were less certain they could predict their investment returns or their own personal health.

What was also interesting was that the survey uncovered that in some cases the desire to continue working part time in retirement increased after the individual reached retirement age.

Perhaps it's the realization that retirement may prove to be a bit more boring than they expected when they were younger.

One telling observation was that 85 percent of those who were under 45 years old said they were looking forward to spending more time with their family in retirement, but of those who were already over 65 years old, only 68 percent said that was how they were spending their time.

Even more eye-opening was that only 25 percent of the retired American high-net worth individuals described their retirement as "the best years of my life."

The shift toward a working retirement could have several ramifications.

First, from the investing point of view, there is the possibility that those planning to work longer may have the opportunity to take greater risk with their investments for a longer period of time.

"Your appetite for risk may increase if you are working and getting an income," Brady said.

The trend could also have a profound impact on younger workers.

Some believe that in an age of limited employment opportunities, a pool of talented and experienced workers who continue to work will block opportunities for younger workers. But some argue that individuals who work longer will increase the opportunities available and add to the GDP.

The study quoted John Llewellyn of Llewellyn Consulting, an economics consultancy, who expects the older generation could drive economic growth.

"The concept of a blessed retirement used to be relevant, when the body was exhausted from physical labor. But it is not the case anymore for many people; not everyone wants to be told they have to leave work and play golf," Llewellyn is quoted as saying.

Also, there is the thought that those who work longer, live longer.

"Trade unions say it is not fair to force people to retire after 65, but I would reply to them 'what right do you have to shorten my life?'" Llewellyn said.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Johnny#5
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by Johnny#5 »

Interesting article.

I guess it makes sense, as we are living longer with better quality of life. The '60 years old' now isn't the same as it was further back in the last century.
---------- ADS -----------
 
beast
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by beast »

This is a disaster for our society.
---------- ADS -----------
 
fish4life
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2405
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by fish4life »

we have been going about retiring completely wrong you should live the "retired" lifestyle from 20-30 yrs old then spend the rest of your years working
---------- ADS -----------
 
MeAndMrPenguin
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:07 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by MeAndMrPenguin »

This is all just kicking the can...

Retire later all you want, the demographics don't lie and there will be huge changes after the baby boomers finally leave.

M.A.M.P.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
twinpratts
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1600
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:38 am
Location: The Wild Wild West.
Contact:

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by twinpratts »

Let them stay, just freeze their seniority :lol:
---------- ADS -----------
 
I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
pilotidentity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by pilotidentity »

I've spent a year not working on semi retirement and the relationship with my wife suffered, we were around each other too much.... you start to wonder what you can do, its nice to have people outside your home to talk to and joke around with... if the job is not too hard, like flying, why not?

Don't give the old people a hard time, I'm not old, 40, but when it comes right down to it, we really all can't help thinking about ourselves, even though we know there is others out there with less than us, to us that doesn't really matter, we want the best for us and our kids.... I was brought up this way, and I know its a major flaw and doesn't lead to equality.

I try to make myself feel better by giving food and money to people that need it, and a helping hand to whomever asks, or doesn't ask.

I'm not some rich CS that says f the younger generation, not even close to that. I support them mentally by my actions and wish them all them best. I want them to have the same great life I've had... I'm a dad. I worry they won't.

I don't think my thinking is far off from those older than me that choose to work past "retirement age".

I'm totally against new cars and trucks, fancy houses, extravagance, all that S. Its not about the money. Work can provide entertainment and sanity without having to do with money. To those that are working to pay for more I say FU and have no respect. Hold on a second, that might be me a little bit. Damn.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Mig29
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:47 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by Mig29 »

pilotidentity,
I read your post and I appreciate your way of thinking. I think the society in general has made us the way we are today. I come from another continent, heck from another way of life in general and seeing people suffer first hand from wars, poverty, economic hardship, it makes me wonder how lucky (or not) are we in Canada. I think a lot of us chase the dollar and toys and then get frustrated when we don't have "more". It is like a baby when you give her something, and she gets bored and wants "more". Only difference is that we should have learned something by the time we get to sixties. Some of us haven't and probably never will!!

Anyways, you said something about your relationship with your wife is suffering while you were on this semi-retired job. I think you are fairly young at 40 and yes, too much home time will get to you so it's not good. So it's always smart to do something to occupy your time so you don't but heads at home 24/7. But that's normal, for younger couples especially, but it shouldn't be a problem by the time you turn 60 or 65 :D

I think by then you just learn how to 'noise cancel' each other and read your morning paper and enjoy playing with your grand kids later that afternoon. Overstaying at your job and forcing others to suffer and not be able to progress because you need more toys to buy is the wrong way. It's pure greed and lack of organization in your personal life! No excuses for screwing up someone else life at work because guy spent his time at work partying way to much to wake up one morning and say " oh s**t what happened to all of my saving!!?

Regards
---------- ADS -----------
 
Mechanic787
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:38 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by Mechanic787 »

Mig29 wrote:Overstaying at your job and forcing others to suffer and not be able to progress because you need more toys to buy is the wrong way. It's pure greed and lack of organization in your personal life!
For many of us in the federal jurisdiction who will be affected by the ultimate resolutions of these issues, it is not a zero-sum game. One person's gain does not necessarily imply another person's loss. However, that is not the sense that I get from reading the posts of those who are adverse to change in the retirement processes, many of whom appear to be younger members of the pilot union.

And I don't believe that the Tribunal or the Court will consider the issues in that narrow of a context, either. They can't, given the broad implications of their decisions.

For what it's worth, from my perspective, there are several huge cracks in this dam, all leaking water, and the dam is about to burst, within the next week or two, given the number of legal proceedings already concluded whose decisions are about to be released. Four, as I count them, with another two in the wings, including the November JR, none of which bode well for the status quo.
---------- ADS -----------
 
vic777
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:00 am

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by vic777 »

The wealthy who keep working are usually self employed and putting more into society than they are taking out.
---------- ADS -----------
 
beast
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by beast »

Overstaying at your job and forcing others to suffer and not be able to progress because you need more toys to buy is the wrong way. It's pure greed and lack of organization in your personal life! No excuses for screwing up someone else life at work because guy spent his time at work partying way to much to wake up one morning and say " oh s**t what happened to all of my saving!!?
One person's gain does not necessarily imply another person's loss
Mechanic 787, is that seriously your answer??

The losses and gains in this particular scenario are quite clear, which is precisely why a select group of individuals are highly committed to such a cause at such a specific time in their career
---------- ADS -----------
 
Mechanic787
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:38 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by Mechanic787 »

One person's gain does not necessarily imply another person's loss
beast wrote:Mechanic 787, is that seriously your answer?? The losses and gains in this particular scenario are quite clear, which is precisely why a select group of individuals are highly committed to such a cause at such a specific time in their career
Yes, seriously, that is my answer. In almost all, if not all of the jurisdictions where mandatory retirement has been implemented, the reaction by the employees generally has been little more than a yawn.

I suspect that that non-reaction results largely because when the ban is imposed the employers and the leadership of the unions accept the inevitabilty of the change in the legal landscape, and where necessary or desirable, create incentives for the older employees or members to leave at the same age or earlier. The impact on the career progression of the younger workers, as a result, is negligible, or even positive. A large number of employees can't wait to retire, so long as there is no pension penalty for doing so. If there is a huge carrot in the offing, as well, so much the better.

So far, in the situation unfolding here, I have seen no compelling argument why things could not follow the same path, which leaves me slightly puzzled at the intensity of the emotional reactions.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Thirteentennorth
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:06 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by Thirteentennorth »

Mechanic787 wrote:For many of us in the federal jurisdiction who will be affected by the ultimate resolutions of these issues, it is not a zero-sum game. One person's gain does not necessarily imply another person's loss....
Mechanic787, under normal social and labour conditions I would agree with you, but in the pilot group, with the seniority and formula-pay system, one person's gain DOES in fact imply another person's loss. E.g. in the Global Montreal TV program, one of those pilots interviewed, who disagrees with mandatory retirement, has been senior all his career [joined very young at the beginning of a hiring boom] and ended up very senior on the Triple. By continuing with his career, if allowed by the CHRT and courts, he would be denying someone else the ability to have the best choice of working conditions, vacations and, by extension, compensation. And the ripple effect would be felt right down the chain. This is not his fault, because I know that individual and he is a genuinely nice guy with not a mean bone in his body. It is the fault of the seniority and formula-pay system which prevails at AC. But until that system is changed to a status-pay, years-of-service type of system, then your assertion does not apply.

Maybe this is something that the Tribunal and the courts have to take a hard look at, particularly in the remedy phase of the ruling, because if the enforcement of one person's "rights" causes hardship on an entire group of others and infringes their "right" to freely make their lifestyle and employment choices, then where does that leave us?
---------- ADS -----------
 
The 4 most important words for a pilot: BRAKES SET, GO-AROUND!
accumulous
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:05 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by accumulous »

Maybe this is something that the Tribunal and the courts have to take a hard look at, particularly in the remedy phase of the ruling, because if the enforcement of one person's "rights" causes hardship on an entire group of others and infringes their "right" to freely make their lifestyle and employment choices, then where does that leave us?
Do you have any information on how all the other air carriers in North America handled it?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Thirteentennorth
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:06 pm

Re: Another Perspective on Retirement

Post by Thirteentennorth »

Not really ACCumulous! Can only speak for the AC model which has the formula pay systems. Over the years, many attempts have been made to investigate transitioning from a formula-pay system to a status-pay system, such as Jazz has. Each system has/had its proponents. But the satisfactory mechanism was never found. I am, however, convinced that this pay system is partially at the root of the problem.
---------- ADS -----------
 
The 4 most important words for a pilot: BRAKES SET, GO-AROUND!
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”