One List

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plausiblyannonymous
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One List

Post by plausiblyannonymous » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:20 am

I have been getting so much conflicting information that I wanted to ask those who actually voted down the one list.

Why did you vote it down?

What can we do at Encore to alleviate your concerns?

How would you want it fixed?
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George Taylor
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Re: One List

Post by George Taylor » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:56 am

One list means one list, it flows both ways.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: One List

Post by Yycjetdriver » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:14 am

plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:20 am
I have been getting so much conflicting information that I wanted to ask those who actually voted down the one list.

Why did you vote it down?

What can we do at Encore to alleviate your concerns?

How would you want it fixed?
Well in regards to the “what can we at Encore do” question, nothing plain and simple.
But as the previous poster said, a true one list that flows both ways has to be the greatest concern among the group. While the company or even the mainline ALPA may make it seem like the no vote is totally the mainline pilots fault and that the company truly wants a yes vote, it’s not true.
The company doesn’t want a true one list with flow both ways, they want it in the old form as its convenient for pilot attraction and retention, but it’s also cheap.
In the event of lay offs, hypothetically say 100, 737 FO spots. They walk in lay off those pilots and they’re gone, in the old form it doesn’t matter where those pilots came from they’re at the bottom of the mainline list and they’re laid off. Cheap and easy!
Now with a true one list, say of those 100 pilots, 70 are encore flow with 3-4 years seniority and 30 are off the street. Those 30 might have enough seniority to bump out the most junior encore pilots should they choose to remain employed. There’s 30 training events. Now those 70 probably will have enough seniority to go back down to encore captains, another 70 training events(recurrents/refreshers/line checks), now maybe those 70 current encore left seaters get pushed back into the right seat (possible training) and eventually some Q400 type rated and possibly 737 pilots get laid off.

All of this becomes very complicated, time consuming and most importantly expensive. I get as an encore pilot you wanting to help and do whatever to make it possible I don’t think it’s that easy.
I’m assuming the company wants to put the one list back in the exact same form that was voted down to begin with, perhaps putting pressure on the union to do so. Maybe that’s also why the union is folding and apparently not honouring the vote results.
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Ex DC10 Driver
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Re: One List

Post by Ex DC10 Driver » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:18 pm

Well said.
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hurtin'albertan
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Re: One List

Post by hurtin'albertan » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:13 pm

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:14 am
plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:20 am
I have been getting so much conflicting information that I wanted to ask those who actually voted down the one list.

Why did you vote it down?

What can we do at Encore to alleviate your concerns?

How would you want it fixed?
Well in regards to the “what can we at Encore do” question, nothing plain and simple.
But as the previous poster said, a true one list that flows both ways has to be the greatest concern among the group. While the company or even the mainline ALPA may make it seem like the no vote is totally the mainline pilots fault and that the company truly wants a yes vote, it’s not true.
The company doesn’t want a true one list with flow both ways, they want it in the old form as its convenient for pilot attraction and retention, but it’s also cheap.
In the event of lay offs, hypothetically say 100, 737 FO spots. They walk in lay off those pilots and they’re gone, in the old form it doesn’t matter where those pilots came from they’re at the bottom of the mainline list and they’re laid off. Cheap and easy!
Now with a true one list, say of those 100 pilots, 70 are encore flow with 3-4 years seniority and 30 are off the street. Those 30 might have enough seniority to bump out the most junior encore pilots should they choose to remain employed. There’s 30 training events. Now those 70 probably will have enough seniority to go back down to encore captains, another 70 training events(recurrents/refreshers/line checks), now maybe those 70 current encore left seaters get pushed back into the right seat (possible training) and eventually some Q400 type rated and possibly 737 pilots get laid off.

All of this becomes very complicated, time consuming and most importantly expensive. I get as an encore pilot you wanting to help and do whatever to make it possible I don’t think it’s that easy.
I’m assuming the company wants to put the one list back in the exact same form that was voted down to begin with, perhaps putting pressure on the union to do so. Maybe that’s also why the union is folding and apparently not honouring the vote results.
Fine and dandy to proclaim "true one list". Riddle me this scenario:

Lets say 10 pilots are hired at WJ/WJE and they are botl. They are pilots #2001-2010 on the "true one list"

#2001-5 are WJ mainline
#2006-10 are WJE

There are 400+ Encore pilots waiting to flow above all these new hires. Let's say the top 5 Encore pilots on the "true one list" are #1501-1505. Doesn't matter really what number, they could be #1999. Fact is, they are senior.

WJ mainline lays off 5 pilots. 2001-2005 have bumping rights so they go down to encore (rather than being able to take some sweet contract somewhere or whatever cause they have to go on the q to keep their number on the "true one list", but that's besides the point). 2006-2010 get thrown onto the street. Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Ok. 9 months later WJ mainline recalls. Who gets to go on the jet? The 5 former WJ who went to Encore?

OR

Do the next 5 Encore pilots (#1501-1505) who have been patiently waiting to flow for a few years, on the "true one list", who are SENIOR TO THE 5 FORMER MAINLINE PILOTS get to go? Thus those former jet guys are now stuck at Encore since they "true one list"ed their way there 'cause it's fair, goddammit! Two way flow goddammit! Seniority true one list goddammit!

Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Careful what you wish for. If I'm #2001-2005 I'd rather take the pogey for a few months, or take a contract and come back to the jet, rather than go to wje and then be fu(ked out of a recall to mainline cause "true one list" and be stuck on the q until all those other 400 encore people have flowed.

Haven't seen this scenario discussed at all on the alpa forum.
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tbayav8er
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Re: One List

Post by tbayav8er » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:26 pm

Don't you guys at WJ have a clause in your agreement that says basically before a single person can be laid off, the company has to do away with any CPA's first? Encore is a CPA. So wouldn't Encore have to be completely shutdown anyways before a single Mainline pilot could be laid off? So wouldn't every single pilot at Encore have to be laid off first, before they could lay off a single pilot in the bottom 10% of the mainline pilot list?
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hurtin'albertan
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Re: One List

Post by hurtin'albertan » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:55 pm

tbayav8er wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:26 pm
Don't you guys at WJ have a clause in your agreement that says basically before a single person can be laid off, the company has to do away with any CPA's first? Encore is a CPA. So wouldn't Encore have to be completely shutdown anyways before a single Mainline pilot could be laid off? So wouldn't every single pilot at Encore have to be laid off first, before they could lay off a single pilot in the bottom 10% of the mainline pilot list?
In a word, no. No one no where has this that I know of but i'm happy to be proven wrong if you can find a contract that says "kill all your code shares, cpas, joint ventures, etc before you lay one person off."

The WJ contract has a clause that says pilots won't be laid off as a DIRECT RESULT of business relationships. I take that to mean they can't lay guys off if say they do a JV with Delta who then comes and does all our transborder flying and wj lays off cause now we are fat pilots due to farming out that work.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: One List

Post by Yycjetdriver » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:59 pm

hurtin'albertan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:13 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:14 am
plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:20 am
I have been getting so much conflicting information that I wanted to ask those who actually voted down the one list.

Why did you vote it down?

What can we do at Encore to alleviate your concerns?

How would you want it fixed?
Well in regards to the “what can we at Encore do” question, nothing plain and simple.
But as the previous poster said, a true one list that flows both ways has to be the greatest concern among the group. While the company or even the mainline ALPA may make it seem like the no vote is totally the mainline pilots fault and that the company truly wants a yes vote, it’s not true.
The company doesn’t want a true one list with flow both ways, they want it in the old form as its convenient for pilot attraction and retention, but it’s also cheap.
In the event of lay offs, hypothetically say 100, 737 FO spots. They walk in lay off those pilots and they’re gone, in the old form it doesn’t matter where those pilots came from they’re at the bottom of the mainline list and they’re laid off. Cheap and easy!
Now with a true one list, say of those 100 pilots, 70 are encore flow with 3-4 years seniority and 30 are off the street. Those 30 might have enough seniority to bump out the most junior encore pilots should they choose to remain employed. There’s 30 training events. Now those 70 probably will have enough seniority to go back down to encore captains, another 70 training events(recurrents/refreshers/line checks), now maybe those 70 current encore left seaters get pushed back into the right seat (possible training) and eventually some Q400 type rated and possibly 737 pilots get laid off.

All of this becomes very complicated, time consuming and most importantly expensive. I get as an encore pilot you wanting to help and do whatever to make it possible I don’t think it’s that easy.
I’m assuming the company wants to put the one list back in the exact same form that was voted down to begin with, perhaps putting pressure on the union to do so. Maybe that’s also why the union is folding and apparently not honouring the vote results.
Fine and dandy to proclaim "true one list". Riddle me this scenario:

Lets say 10 pilots are hired at WJ/WJE and they are botl. They are pilots #2001-2010 on the "true one list"

#2001-5 are WJ mainline
#2006-10 are WJE

There are 400+ Encore pilots waiting to flow above all these new hires. Let's say the top 5 Encore pilots on the "true one list" are #1501-1505. Doesn't matter really what number, they could be #1999. Fact is, they are senior.

WJ mainline lays off 5 pilots. 2001-2005 have bumping rights so they go down to encore (rather than being able to take some sweet contract somewhere or whatever cause they have to go on the q to keep their number on the "true one list", but that's besides the point). 2006-2010 get thrown onto the street. Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Ok. 9 months later WJ mainline recalls. Who gets to go on the jet? The 5 former WJ who went to Encore?

OR

Do the next 5 Encore pilots (#1501-1505) who have been patiently waiting to flow for a few years, on the "true one list", who are SENIOR TO THE 5 FORMER MAINLINE PILOTS get to go? Thus those former jet guys are now stuck at Encore since they "true one list"ed their way there 'cause it's fair, goddammit! Two way flow goddammit! Seniority true one list goddammit!

Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Careful what you wish for. If I'm #2001-2005 I'd rather take the pogey for a few months, or take a contract and come back to the jet, rather than go to wje and then be fu(ked out of a recall to mainline cause "true one list" and be stuck on the q until all those other 400 encore people have flowed.

Haven't seen this scenario discussed at all on the alpa forum.
Ummmmm.... yes. That’s the whole point of true seniority, giving those pilots the choice and how it works at every other airline with a seniority list. You may find this hard to believe but some pilots, perhaps those with families are unable to support themselves on pogey. Anyways that wasn’t the point of my post, I personally couldn’t care less for true seniority or not. I was just trying to express why the company may pretend they want to find a solution however they want it in the previous form, due to the high associated costs that could be associated with a true one list.
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tbayav8er
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Re: One List

Post by tbayav8er » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:09 pm

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification!
hurtin'albertan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:55 pm
tbayav8er wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:26 pm
Don't you guys at WJ have a clause in your agreement that says basically before a single person can be laid off, the company has to do away with any CPA's first? Encore is a CPA. So wouldn't Encore have to be completely shutdown anyways before a single Mainline pilot could be laid off? So wouldn't every single pilot at Encore have to be laid off first, before they could lay off a single pilot in the bottom 10% of the mainline pilot list?
In a word, no. No one no where has this that I know of but i'm happy to be proven wrong if you can find a contract that says "kill all your code shares, cpas, joint ventures, etc before you lay one person off."

The WJ contract has a clause that says pilots won't be laid off as a DIRECT RESULT of business relationships. I take that to mean they can't lay guys off if say they do a JV with Delta who then comes and does all our transborder flying and wj lays off cause now we are fat pilots due to farming out that work.
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JBI
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Re: One List

Post by JBI » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:33 pm

hurtin'albertan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:55 pm
tbayav8er wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:26 pm
Don't you guys at WJ have a clause in your agreement that says basically before a single person can be laid off, the company has to do away with any CPA's first? Encore is a CPA. So wouldn't Encore have to be completely shutdown anyways before a single Mainline pilot could be laid off? So wouldn't every single pilot at Encore have to be laid off first, before they could lay off a single pilot in the bottom 10% of the mainline pilot list?
In a word, no. No one no where has this that I know of but i'm happy to be proven wrong if you can find a contract that says "kill all your code shares, cpas, joint ventures, etc before you lay one person off."

The WJ contract has a clause that says pilots won't be laid off as a DIRECT RESULT of business relationships. I take that to mean they can't lay guys off if say they do a JV with Delta who then comes and does all our transborder flying and wj lays off cause now we are fat pilots due to farming out that work.
Neither of these two extremes are likely how this clause would play out. Unfortunately I'm no longer in a situation where I can elaborate, but would recommend speaking directly with your union reps on how the clause would be interpreted. I've previously posted my personal thoughts relating partially on this matter prior to the LOA vote in a different thread.
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flyinhigh
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Re: One List

Post by flyinhigh » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:30 pm

This is the entire reason the One List is a dead duck to never be revived. Pilots are, our own worst enemy.

West jet Pilots want some form of protection.

Two WESTJET pilots wrote a great resolution to protect a portion of the Encore Group.

Encore pilots saw this and threw their nose up in the air at it.

No one will ever be happy, hence the List is Dead
hurtin'albertan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:13 pm

Fine and dandy to proclaim "true one list". Riddle me this scenario:

Lets say 10 pilots are hired at WJ/WJE and they are botl. They are pilots #2001-2010 on the "true one list"

#2001-5 are WJ mainline
#2006-10 are WJE

There are 400+ Encore pilots waiting to flow above all these new hires. Let's say the top 5 Encore pilots on the "true one list" are #1501-1505. Doesn't matter really what number, they could be #1999. Fact is, they are senior.

WJ mainline lays off 5 pilots. 2001-2005 have bumping rights so they go down to encore (rather than being able to take some sweet contract somewhere or whatever cause they have to go on the q to keep their number on the "true one list", but that's besides the point). 2006-2010 get thrown onto the street. Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Ok. 9 months later WJ mainline recalls. Who gets to go on the jet? The 5 former WJ who went to Encore?

OR

Do the next 5 Encore pilots (#1501-1505) who have been patiently waiting to flow for a few years, on the "true one list", who are SENIOR TO THE 5 FORMER MAINLINE PILOTS get to go? Thus those former jet guys are now stuck at Encore since they "true one list"ed their way there 'cause it's fair, goddammit! Two way flow goddammit! Seniority true one list goddammit!

Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Careful what you wish for. If I'm #2001-2005 I'd rather take the pogey for a few months, or take a contract and come back to the jet, rather than go to wje and then be fu(ked out of a recall to mainline cause "true one list" and be stuck on the q until all those other 400 encore people have flowed.

Haven't seen this scenario discussed at all on the alpa forum.
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DropTanks
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Re: One List

Post by DropTanks » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:22 am

hurtin'albertan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:13 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:14 am
plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:20 am
I have been getting so much conflicting information that I wanted to ask those who actually voted down the one list.

Why did you vote it down?

What can we do at Encore to alleviate your concerns?

How would you want it fixed?
Well in regards to the “what can we at Encore do” question, nothing plain and simple.
But as the previous poster said, a true one list that flows both ways has to be the greatest concern among the group. While the company or even the mainline ALPA may make it seem like the no vote is totally the mainline pilots fault and that the company truly wants a yes vote, it’s not true.
The company doesn’t want a true one list with flow both ways, they want it in the old form as its convenient for pilot attraction and retention, but it’s also cheap.
In the event of lay offs, hypothetically say 100, 737 FO spots. They walk in lay off those pilots and they’re gone, in the old form it doesn’t matter where those pilots came from they’re at the bottom of the mainline list and they’re laid off. Cheap and easy!
Now with a true one list, say of those 100 pilots, 70 are encore flow with 3-4 years seniority and 30 are off the street. Those 30 might have enough seniority to bump out the most junior encore pilots should they choose to remain employed. There’s 30 training events. Now those 70 probably will have enough seniority to go back down to encore captains, another 70 training events(recurrents/refreshers/line checks), now maybe those 70 current encore left seaters get pushed back into the right seat (possible training) and eventually some Q400 type rated and possibly 737 pilots get laid off.

All of this becomes very complicated, time consuming and most importantly expensive. I get as an encore pilot you wanting to help and do whatever to make it possible I don’t think it’s that easy.
I’m assuming the company wants to put the one list back in the exact same form that was voted down to begin with, perhaps putting pressure on the union to do so. Maybe that’s also why the union is folding and apparently not honouring the vote results.
Fine and dandy to proclaim "true one list". Riddle me this scenario:

Lets say 10 pilots are hired at WJ/WJE and they are botl. They are pilots #2001-2010 on the "true one list"

#2001-5 are WJ mainline
#2006-10 are WJE

There are 400+ Encore pilots waiting to flow above all these new hires. Let's say the top 5 Encore pilots on the "true one list" are #1501-1505. Doesn't matter really what number, they could be #1999. Fact is, they are senior.

WJ mainline lays off 5 pilots. 2001-2005 have bumping rights so they go down to encore (rather than being able to take some sweet contract somewhere or whatever cause they have to go on the q to keep their number on the "true one list", but that's besides the point). 2006-2010 get thrown onto the street. Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Ok. 9 months later WJ mainline recalls. Who gets to go on the jet? The 5 former WJ who went to Encore?

OR

Do the next 5 Encore pilots (#1501-1505) who have been patiently waiting to flow for a few years, on the "true one list", who are SENIOR TO THE 5 FORMER MAINLINE PILOTS get to go? Thus those former jet guys are now stuck at Encore since they "true one list"ed their way there 'cause it's fair, goddammit! Two way flow goddammit! Seniority true one list goddammit!

Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Careful what you wish for. If I'm #2001-2005 I'd rather take the pogey for a few months, or take a contract and come back to the jet, rather than go to wje and then be fu(ked out of a recall to mainline cause "true one list" and be stuck on the q until all those other 400 encore people have flowed.

Haven't seen this scenario discussed at all on the alpa forum.
Easy there. Not to worry because it’s really simple. The original WJ guys that got punted down to Encore would be first to get their seats back. It’s called recall rights. Every contract I’ve ever seen has recall rights in it. Once again any iteration of a List LOA that didn’t include this would get thrown in the bin pretty fast. Regardless I think going forward most westjetters don’t have an appetite for handing out seniority numbers to people not on property yet so any new One List would likely place new hires at the BOTL. In fact they’re not even calling it One List anymore. It’s the potential PTA. Pilot Transfer Agreement.
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JBI
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Re: One List

Post by JBI » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:00 pm

flyinhigh wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:30 pm
This is the entire reason the One List is a dead duck to never be revived. Pilots are, our own worst enemy.

West jet Pilots want some form of protection.

Two WESTJET pilots wrote a great resolution to protect a portion of the Encore Group.

Encore pilots saw this and threw their nose up in the air at it.

No one will ever be happy, hence the List is Dead
Again, not quite correct on either extreme.

Lots of different reasons why WJ pilots voted against the LOA.

With the new YYZ members resolution, very few Encore pilots are/were against it. Lots of questions were asked as to what exactly a Pilot Resolution at an LEC meeting means and while some, similar to some WJ pilots, want something closer to the one list back the generalization that "Encore pilots saw this and threw their nose up in the air at it" is not even remotely accurate.

So generalizing what "WestJet" pilots and "Encore" pilots feel doesn't help anyone.
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Biff
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Re: One List

Post by Biff » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:08 pm

hurtin'albertan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:13 pm
Fine and dandy to proclaim "true one list". Riddle me this scenario:

Lets say 10 pilots are hired at WJ/WJE and they are botl. They are pilots #2001-2010 on the "true one list"

#2001-5 are WJ mainline
#2006-10 are WJE

There are 400+ Encore pilots waiting to flow above all these new hires. Let's say the top 5 Encore pilots on the "true one list" are #1501-1505. Doesn't matter really what number, they could be #1999. Fact is, they are senior.

WJ mainline lays off 5 pilots. 2001-2005 have bumping rights so they go down to encore (rather than being able to take some sweet contract somewhere or whatever cause they have to go on the q to keep their number on the "true one list", but that's besides the point). 2006-2010 get thrown onto the street. Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Ok. 9 months later WJ mainline recalls. Who gets to go on the jet? The 5 former WJ who went to Encore?

OR

Do the next 5 Encore pilots (#1501-1505) who have been patiently waiting to flow for a few years, on the "true one list", who are SENIOR TO THE 5 FORMER MAINLINE PILOTS get to go? Thus those former jet guys are now stuck at Encore since they "true one list"ed their way there 'cause it's fair, goddammit! Two way flow goddammit! Seniority true one list goddammit!

Seniority rules, right? Cool.

Careful what you wish for. If I'm #2001-2005 I'd rather take the pogey for a few months, or take a contract and come back to the jet, rather than go to wje and then be fu(ked out of a recall to mainline cause "true one list" and be stuck on the q until all those other 400 encore people have flowed.

Haven't seen this scenario discussed at all on the alpa forum.
Just one question......what are these “sweet contracts” that a 737 fo with 200 hours on type would be running off to?
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: One List

Post by plausiblyannonymous » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:27 am

flyinhigh wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:30 pm
This is the entire reason the One List is a dead duck to never be revived. Pilots are, our own worst enemy.

West jet Pilots want some form of protection.

Two WESTJET pilots wrote a great resolution to protect a portion of the Encore Group.

Encore pilots saw this and threw their nose up in the air at it.

No one will ever be happy, hence the List is Dead
You are right... the resolution would protect a portion of the Encore group. It would also screw over a portion of that group as well. As of August 16th, it's 45 people. As of today, it's probably closer to 70. By the time the vote would happen and the resolution enacted, it would be 100 pilots.

By years end, we would be screwing over 20% of the Encore pilots. What happens when Encore pilots lose the flow? People stop applying. We lose the ability to operate and, by extension, the company that pays your salaries loses money.

That being said, having 50% of mainline pilots vote against the people who are feeding passengers onto mainline flights just because of a maybe situation of layoffs is odd to me.

If the company starts laying off pilots, there's a bigger issue.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: One List

Post by Yycjetdriver » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:33 am

[/quote]
What happens when Encore pilots lose the flow? People stop applying. We lose the ability to operate and, by extension, the company that pays your salaries loses money.

That being said, having 50% of mainline pilots vote against the people who are feeding passengers onto mainline flights just because of a maybe situation of layoffs is odd to me.

[/quote]

You’re giving Encore too much credit, the day encore stops making money is the day it ceases to exit as it is. Chorus’, Skyregional, Georgian’s, Eva’s, Pasco and the many many companies who have come before prove this. Just because Westjet may own or lease Q’s, doesn’t mean they need to run their own regional airline(proven by the air Canada model).
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Ex DC10 Driver
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Re: One List

Post by Ex DC10 Driver » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:48 am

Jazz never had flow to A/C and people still applied there. In the end you are still flying a state of the art airplane for an airline with a decent CBA and other perks. It is not perfect but is definitely improving.
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jjj
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Re: One List

Post by jjj » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:17 pm

The list of people getting screwed as you declare does not expand with time.

People not yet hired have no entitlement to anything. Anyone starting these days knows fully that they are walking into a quagmire of seniority problems.

Frankly the number of pilots potentially affected is fixed.

JJJ
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: One List

Post by plausiblyannonymous » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm

jjj wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:17 pm
The list of people getting screwed as you declare does not expand with time.

People not yet hired have no entitlement to anything. Anyone starting these days knows fully that they are walking into a quagmire of seniority problems.

Frankly the number of pilots potentially affected is fixed.

JJJ
Great, let's add the following line to everyone's offer letter:

"Welcome to the family! You are, and will always be less than your siblings."
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Sharklasers
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Posts: 150
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: One List

Post by Sharklasers » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:12 pm

plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm
jjj wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:17 pm
The list of people getting screwed as you declare does not expand with time.

People not yet hired have no entitlement to anything. Anyone starting these days knows fully that they are walking into a quagmire of seniority problems.

Frankly the number of pilots potentially affected is fixed.

JJJ
Great, let's add the following line to everyone's offer letter:

"Welcome to the family! You are, and will always be less than your siblings."

Now I see where the confusion is.

You work for the multi billion dollar multinational corporation owned exclusively by a private equity fund, your not a family.

Put down the koolaid.
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Hangry
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Re: One List

Post by Hangry » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:15 pm

Sharklasers wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:12 pm
plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm
jjj wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:17 pm
The list of people getting screwed as you declare does not expand with time.

People not yet hired have no entitlement to anything. Anyone starting these days knows fully that they are walking into a quagmire of seniority problems.

Frankly the number of pilots potentially affected is fixed.

JJJ
Great, let's add the following line to everyone's offer letter:

"Welcome to the family! You are, and will always be less than your siblings."

Now I see where the confusion is.

You work for the multi billion dollar multinational corporation owned exclusively by a private equity fund, your not a family.

Put down the koolaid.
Seriously. I’ve never heard a Jazz or Sky pilot say they fly for AC. Encore pilots always say they fly for WJ.
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: One List

Post by plausiblyannonymous » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:24 pm

Hangry wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:15 pm
Sharklasers wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:12 pm
plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm


Great, let's add the following line to everyone's offer letter:

"Welcome to the family! You are, and will always be less than your siblings."

Now I see where the confusion is.

You work for the multi billion dollar multinational corporation owned exclusively by a private equity fund, your not a family.

Put down the koolaid.
Seriously. I’ve never heard a Jazz or Sky pilot say they fly for AC. Encore pilots always say they fly for WJ.
I hear Jazz pilots tell people that they work for Air Canada all of the time.

Encore pilots DO work for WestJet. WestJet owns WestJet Airlines and WestJet Encore.
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flyinhigh
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Location: my couch

Re: One List

Post by flyinhigh » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:21 am

So you are saying some 200 hour wonder who has no footing in the Westjet Group has the same rights and privileges as a pilot who was hired pre CBA's.

Again, this is why the list is dead.
plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm

Great, let's add the following line to everyone's offer letter:

"Welcome to the family! You are, and will always be less than your siblings."
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George Taylor
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:21 am

Re: One List

Post by George Taylor » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:33 pm

Let's not forget the Encore pilots voted in their CBA without have the one list fiasco sorted out first. You talk about siblings and family with regards to your employment, if that's the case you should be mad at mom and dad.
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JBI
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Location: YYZ / LGA

Re: One List

Post by JBI » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:41 am

George Taylor wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:33 pm
Let's not forget the Encore pilots voted in their CBA without have the one list fiasco sorted out first. You talk about siblings and family with regards to your employment, if that's the case you should be mad at mom and dad.
As I've outlined a bunch of different times on here, for a few different reasons that I can't get into publicly, that wasn't an option.

Acting like children and being mad at Mom and Dad isn't going to get this fixed. Working together with all 3 pilot groups will improve things for all of us.
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