WestJet Pilots and Flight Attendants Race to Unionize

[loopa]

I understand this may be on the bottom of the list of things to worry about, but out of curiosity... has there been any communication with respect to the impact of WPPA on Encore? After speaking with some of the guys that fly at Encore, they are worried that incentives like one list and flow may get disintegrated if the union takes over. For example, why would a 737 F/O vote in favour of flow/one list if Encore driver #200 is going to cause a big delay in his/her upgrade, base selections, and all the nice things that come with seniority? I guess the worry seems to promote that the divided company can really seal the faith of Encore employees. Is it also true that since Encore is it's own company (with WJ's backing), that if a Union does present itself at WJ, it couldn't legally represent Encore? I'm unfamiliar with this union ordeal so apologies in advance if these seem like silly questions.

That being said, it seems like WJ pilots have tried to always take care of themselves and the guys coming in behind them.

I have been trying to follow along as much as I can, but what are the main reasons people feel like a union is a necessity at WJ? It's hard to filter out what has actually pissed people off versus people who just complain for the purpose of adding fuel to the fire. On the outside it seems like the company has become extremely divided. It almost seems like if you form a union, you'll piss people off, and if you don't you will piss people off. I hope you guys can find a win-win situation that satisfies the majority.

[KAG]

I'm a new cpt at WJ and don't live in fear of speaking my mind. I've spoken up/ against ideas during town halls over the years and never had any backlash. Sure things have changed, but that is the way of things. It's how we handle this change that matters.
Do we need a union, I don't know. I'm torn. I've heard all the arguments for and against, and I can honestly say I don't know. I feel our wjpa are doing exactly what they set out to do, and The company is listening to them. Change is happening. But is it too little too late for 50%+1. For me I'm content to sit and watch. I guess we'll see shortly. I hope we make the right decision.

[ninjacrumb]

If the WestJet Pilots Association is effective then don't unionize. Even if it's marginally effective don't unionize.

Also don't expect ALPA or any other union make a real difference compared to your Association. All you'll see is 1.95% of your wage gone.

For the guy that made $310,000 thats $6000 per year.

[scopiton]

All you'll see is 1.95% of your wage gone.

For the guy that made $310,000 thats $6000 per year.

please stop, I'm gonna cry....

[thenoflyzone]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westjet ... -1.3109821

315,000$ seems like a lot for a 737 captain. And to think the article says the majority of WS pilots make that kind of money.

That must include a lot of O/T, and the shares program as well no? Maybe he's an instructor as well and does line checks, thus increasing his salary.

If i calculate correctly via the following link, a 12 year captain on a 737 gives you 200,000$ at minimum monthly hours, no per diems or O/T or shares. He makes 50% more than that. Sounds like a lot.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... an/westjet

[KAG]

There are guys that make more then that but it's a small group. Remember out T4 includes our '' pension'', so while it seems high it's not the entire story. A better measuring stick is to ask what we net a month. Its a whole let less then our AC counterparts. Including my portion what I put into the espp, I make about the same as an 8 year mainline a320 fo. Yes there are profit share and options but those are not a given.

[vref]

I say bravo to this pilot who finally is reporting apples to apples in the media. Every single time you hear an employee / union bash their company, they use the overall compensation of an Executive member compared to the salary of a first year employee. So now that you have an (all up) T4 value that says $300,000 + and a CEO overall compensation of $3M, the CEO compensation is 10X more than that employee....seems pretty fair to me...but as I've read, the union push isn't all about compensation.

[aerobod]

There are guys that make more then that but it's a small group. Remember out T4 includes our '' pension'', so while it seems high it's not the entire story. A better measuring stick is to ask what we net a month. Its a whole let less then our AC counterparts. Including my portion what I put into the espp, I make about the same as an 8 year mainline a320 fo. Yes there are profit share and options but those are not a given.

The thing is that the compensation model at WestJet is very dependent on the company's success, so an average of the ESPP, Profit Share and OPA compensation has to be taken into account to compare with other companies. If you exclude RSUs and Stock Options (that are not awarded to all employees, but the pilot group certainly do participate), then over the last 9 years for Mainline employees ESPP, Profit Share and OPA has averaged about 30% per year (the past year has been close to 42%), this doesn't take into account any increase in share value during the 1 year vesting period.

When looking at the whole picture for pilots, they should have a compensation package in any given year 40 to 60% above their base salary if fully participating in the ESPP program and selling shares and RSUs after they have vested. This of course doesn't include any additional compensation due to overtime.

[dignifly]

It's great hearing someone completely out of touch with reality brag about their wage. I'm sure office workers working Monday to Friday at WJ will love to hear what he makes and how little he works. Public will also find it amusing and think we're all rich in the starbucks line at the terminal. Then of course that's a nice little quote for management to toss at the pilots come contract negotiations. Meanwhile this fantastic aviator making 315k a year voted for a contract that does not increase pay for people at his company making the absolute least and having a tough time making ends meet with 1000 bi-weekly pay checks (esp matching). That's not even taking into consideration Encore FO's who I'm sure he had no problem with submarining either.

[Donald]

you don't think getting the quote from a senior captain was an orchestrated maneuver by WJ management?

They aren't the masters of media manipulation for nothing.

[dignifly]

I absolutely agree. But it's sad someone would be used like a puppet this way and submarine their peers and future generations by making idiotic comments like his... unless of course this is a fake name in the article. I can't see that though. Just an assclown in all likelihood but it only takes one to make us all look like one alongside him. Anyways, WJ has good things going for it's workers but as the most profitable airline in Canada they should be setting the bar and not being happy to play second fiddle to Air Canada in terms of complete compensation and benefits package. Heck, even Air Transat has a lot of better terms and conditions. If you're the most efficient and productive pilots in Canada and produce the most profit per pilot shouldn't you be paid the most? Or at least bargain to be? Also, please note that at max pay scale and full 20 percent esp match 315k guy would have a base of 235 000 (210 per hour and 77.5 per month) and let's say he made 35 profit share which is highly speculative, the other 45 k works out to an extra 20-30 days worked per year. This is great money but I know guys at Air Canada making the same for far less with less speculative parameters such as OT or profit sharing. Not to mention better working rules and a fully defined retirement salary. You all play in the same league, start negotiating for similar contracts... Aside from DB pensions, which I can fully accept is a thing of the past in pretty much every non public sector.

[True North]

you don't think getting the quote from a senior captain was an orchestrated maneuver by WJ management?

They aren't the masters of media manipulation for nothing.

This is a joke, right?

[dignifly]

Regardless of who set this up it's ignorant and arrogant to state your t4 earnings publicly like that. Especially when you're among the minority earning those numbers and a lot of people at your company have a tough time making ends meet.

[True North]

Regardless of who set this up it's ignorant and arrogant to state your t4 earnings publicly like that. Especially when you're among the minority earning those numbers and a lot of people at your company have a tough time making ends meet.

Ignorant or arrogant maybe, but that's not what you said. You said it was "orchestrated by WJ management" which is laughable in the extreme.

Do you check under the bed and in the closet for the boogey man too?

[FICU]

Of course it's orchestrated. So is threatening to cut off profit sharing , ESPP, and other perks. Obviously WJ management doesn't want to lose control.

[single_swine_herder]

What a surprise .... a group of pilots that don't want to lose control ...... how fascinatingly unusual is that?

[True North]

Of course it's orchestrated. So is threatening to cut off profit sharing , ESPP, and other perks. Obviously WJ management doesn't want to lose control.

So you are trying to tell me that WestJet management sat down and cooked up a plan to have a pilot interviewed by the CBC and have him spout off about how much money he made? Then they set about recruiting said individual and scheduled the interview??

[Johnny#5]

It's great hearing someone completely out of touch with reality brag about their wage. I'm sure office workers working Monday to Friday at WJ will love to hear what he makes and how little he works. Public will also find it amusing and think we're all rich in the starbucks line at the terminal. Then of course that's a nice little quote for management to toss at the pilots come contract negotiations. Meanwhile this fantastic aviator making 315k a year voted for a contract that does not increase pay for people at his company making the absolute least and having a tough time making ends meet with 1000 bi-weekly pay checks (esp matching). That's not even taking into consideration Encore FO's who I'm sure he had no problem with submarining either.

Totally right....


I can't believe that WJ pilot spouted those remarks publicly....low-class and a kick in the ass to a lot of lower paid, hard working, behind-the-scenes people at that airline.

[Old fella]

you don't think getting the quote from a senior captain was an orchestrated maneuver by WJ management?

They aren't the masters of media manipulation for nothing.

Way back in the mid-80's, EAstern Provincial Pilots went out on strike and the CEO at the time Harry Steele really got down and quite nasty to that group of very hard working pilots who literally went all out for that airline. He(Steele) brought in replacement rated B737 crews that really rubbed many in and out of that airline the wrong way big time. It was quite a situation in YQX EPA hqts at the time. I remember that episode quite well.

Airline CEOs are not above anything IMHO.

[Red1]

JYSK your right the current agreement has no merit under Canadian Labour law, but does hold up under Canadian Civil Law. The agreement is negotiated in good faith between two parties and is the basis for the WestJet pilots pay and working conditions. This would supersede the original letter of employment received from the company.