Ex pilot sues Westjet

[Fanblade]

In Canada it is exceedingly difficult to terminate someone's employment. Every I has to be dotted. Every T crossed. The employees history is important to show a trend. But it means nothing without a solid trigger event for termination that places all blame on the employee. Any partial blame on the employer and the courts will almost always side with the employee.

In the first case Ms Lewis's trigger point was a swear word. If WJ is found to have any responsibility in creating the frustration that led to the word? The courts will very likely side with her.

In the second case the trigger is a missed meeting and a resulting claim of abandonment. Again if WJ is found to have been unreasonable in their demand for a meeting considering the employees health? The courts will very likely side with him.

The two cases look similar in that both appear, from reading, to be HR gaffs. If these employees really deserved to be terminated, HR looks to have picked questionable trigger events to justify termination. Hence the litigation.

I also note the timeline for the two cases is prior to WJ announcing an overhaul to its HR department.

I very much doubt either of these will see the inside of a court. They will get settled quietly with non disclosure statements. We will never know the truth or how it was settled.

Fanblade +1

It will be very interesting if the person who has been diagnosed with mental illness had this condition before his alleged financial issues.

I would hazard a guess friend brooks is not known for critical thinking by his previous pedestrian vapid postings

Simpletons. You should read the WHOLE statement of defence. Since you seem incapable I'll help you out. There wasn't "a missed meeting" there were multiple missed meetings and at no time has Mr Kippen produced documentation supporting his medical claim, despite repeated requests. It is simple enough to get a letter from your doctor stating why you are unfit to fly.

It is highly recommended that you make absolutely sure you know exactly what you are talking about when you start using words like simpleton.

Read paragraph 44 of the complainants submission. The Psychiatrist took about two weeks to respond to the request for a note. In the interim he was fired.

It is not "simple enough" to get to a psychiatrist in this country. Quite the opposite. It can take close to a year unless it is an emergency.

The mere fact that he saw a psychiatrist on short notice means he was in bad shape. Please start showing just a little compassion.

[Old fella]

Both plaintiffs(FA and this pilot) must be getting piss poor legal advice and representation by heading to court over their issues then

Perhaps it's a case of the lawyers not knowing the entire story or not doing the necessary due diligence before signing on to represent the plaintiffs. Perhaps in the pilots case the lawyer was as mesmerized by the plaintiff's story as the pilots who lent him money were mesmerized by his promises.

I understand what you are saying Biff, but not sure I agree. There is plenty of info in the public domain, actually from the Defendant (WJ) that suggests this pilot was nowhere near a model employee. I am sure this pilot's defense counsel did re-enforce the necessity to lay it all on the line the good/ugly and warts because it will be found out and your case will be in jeopardy. WJ is going to defend itself vigorously as it should, more important, it is their right. There will be some ugliness from both sides that will be exposed…… again I go back to out of court. Just my useless two cents worth of commentary as I have no bone in this fight, just following along

[AirMail]

guy is clearly nuts. WS should do psyc evals for applicants. Discuss.

[porcsord]

Hypothetically speaking, if this makes it to court, where would one look up the court date, I'd love to be in the stands.

[Airbrake]

guy is clearly nuts. WS should do psyc evals for applicants. Discuss.

Not being a specialist in anything, I don't know that it would provide any benefit at all.
Remember Williams from Trenton? He was under a microscope with the Military for years, they saw nothing to indicate his underlying issues.

[Beaverskipper]

I've been a creeper for years but have to chime in on this one

I can't believe some of the things guys are saying about the 2 cases against WJ. I personally know the pilot and believe me he has been through hell these past few years and did and still suffers terrible depression issues.
I wouldn't judge too quickly guys these allegations are exactly that allegations !! I know for a fact that he had a company in alberta with 2 other WJ guys and with the 2008 - 9 economy there the company lost a lot of money . The so called borrowing personal money is bogus they all put money in the company was named KipNic for those Westjetters they will know who one of the partners was. DP called all those guys in 2014 asking them to make a complaint against Kippen. They refused ....

The hunt continued and many nights we talked for hours and his fears were realized when suddenly the benfits were gone and westjet wanted to bring him to a meeting without his lawyer or anyone from WPPA although WJPA could attend.
This was clearly to fire him even though he should still have been disabled and did not have a medical.

Too much detail for here and the courts will decide but on June 8 His family doctor called the OPP for fear that he would harm himself. He was involuntarily admitted to hospital and all firearms removed from his house.
My friend was in a terrible place and had been on depression meds since 2012 , there is no conspiracy to get money from WJ I've seen his letters to his doctors and the reports ....this man was sick.

Rather than offer help they continued to harass him , there are signs that Wj may have been involved in the raid on his property i( 10 OPP Swat team and 2 dogs all with battering rams and lots of adrenaline ) in mid July 2015. They were looking for bomb making materials even though Kippen was nowhere near being involved in the bomb threats against WJ.

Place was wrecked and he cleaned it up with some help from friends.

As for the law suit WJ came out with both barrels loaded with BS and did like they always do they tried to shift the blame back to the accuser.
They did the same with the Lewis case and continue to do it in the flight deck ... allegations of drug use , she was bipolar and ect.
She only was fired for swearing though guys , if you felt your daughters were being assaulted in the workplace and you kept getting blocked by the WJ old boys club wouldn't you have a few choice words for them . Id be livid if I was Lewis father or husband.
No matter what will be decided the company let the Captain get out of Dodge (Hawaii) even though there was an arrest warrant issued for him. They then let him fly only to certain spots where he wouldn't be put in jail.

This has to stop we are all pilots and some of the things happening are very disturbing and the only way to change most of this is to have a union separate from the management loving one the WJPA one is.

I personally know someone who is going through a terrible time now , divorce, financial issues and depression . This guy is so scared to go to management and tell them he's sick and needs time off to deal with those issues that he's flying as little as possible and trying to fix himself.
It used to be that PAT had power to not even disclose the pilots name for a few days till the dust settled but thats recently changed now Management needs a call from PAT with the pilots name and type of illness he will be off for......its scary Sh..


Cant wait for ALPA to move in myself !!

[Rotten Apple #1]

Whatever.

[sarg]

I've been a creeper for years but have to chime in on this one

I can't believe some of the things guys are saying about the 2 cases against WJ. I personally know the pilot and believe me he has been through hell these past few years and did and still suffers terrible depression issues.
I wouldn't judge too quickly guys these allegations are exactly that allegations !! I know for a fact that he had a company in alberta with 2 other WJ guys and with the 2008 - 9 economy there the company lost a lot of money . The so called borrowing personal money is bogus they all put money in the company was named KipNic for those Westjetters they will know who one of the partners was. DP called all those guys in 2014 asking them to make a complaint against Kippen. They refused ....

The hunt continued and many nights we talked for hours and his fears were realized when suddenly the benfits were gone and westjet wanted to bring him to a meeting without his lawyer or anyone from WPPA although WJPA could attend.
This was clearly to fire him even though he should still have been disabled and did not have a medical.

Too much detail for here and the courts will decide but on June 8 His family doctor called the OPP for fear that he would harm himself. He was involuntarily admitted to hospital and all firearms removed from his house.
My friend was in a terrible place and had been on depression meds since 2012 , there is no conspiracy to get money from WJ I've seen his letters to his doctors and the reports ....this man was sick.

Rather than offer help they continued to harass him , there are signs that Wj may have been involved in the raid on his property i( 10 OPP Swat team and 2 dogs all with battering rams and lots of adrenaline ) in mid July 2015. They were looking for bomb making materials even though Kippen was nowhere near being involved in the bomb threats against WJ.

Place was wrecked and he cleaned it up with some help from friends.

As for the law suit WJ came out with both barrels loaded with BS and did like they always do they tried to shift the blame back to the accuser.
They did the same with the Lewis case and continue to do it in the flight deck ... allegations of drug use , she was bipolar and ect.
She only was fired for swearing though guys , if you felt your daughters were being assaulted in the workplace and you kept getting blocked by the WJ old boys club wouldn't you have a few choice words for them . Id be livid if I was Lewis father or husband.
No matter what will be decided the company let the Captain get out of Dodge (Hawaii) even though there was an arrest warrant issued for him. They then let him fly only to certain spots where he wouldn't be put in jail.

This has to stop we are all pilots and some of the things happening are very disturbing and the only way to change most of this is to have a union separate from the management loving one the WJPA one is.

I personally know someone who is going through a terrible time now , divorce, financial issues and depression . This guy is so scared to go to management and tell them he's sick and needs time off to deal with those issues that he's flying as little as possible and trying to fix himself.
It used to be that PAT had power to not even disclose the pilots name for a few days till the dust settled but thats recently changed now Management needs a call from PAT with the pilots name and type of illness he will be off for......its scary Sh..

Lets not forget that 2 of our family of WJ pilots took their own lives in the past 4 years .......lets hope they did not die in vain its time to wake up and stop management harassing you into closed meetings for dreamed up BS

Cant wait for ALPA to move in myself !!

Beaverskipper,

It's a pretty cheap tactic implying that either of the 2 pilots that took their lives was due to management harassment, are you willing to supply some proof?

As a close personal friend of one of those pilots, I am sickened that you're trying to use his memory as a union drive tool.

From my personal experience in dealing with the company during a family crisis they are nothing but supportive. Time off was not an issue, lot of support from both Dave P(CP) and PAT including covering extra time in counselling over the benefit plan limit

[Mach1]

... the current brand damage to WJ is in part due to their lack of a union coupled with their apparently clueless HR department. I work in a very unionized environment with an HR department staffed with really smart lawyers. While it has not always been the case, the union and company work very cooperatively and effectively together to prevent these sort of personal issues from blowing up.
My guess is that had Ms. Lewis's case occurred at my place of employment, she would not have been stonewalled to the point where she felt the need to send an overly strong but quite justified email to get information that she was legally entitled to. Our HR department has very fair steps in place for dealing with these kinds of issues and the union would ensure that they were followed.
And I would also hazard a guess that had Mr. Kippen been employed by my employer, the union run, company funded, Employee Assistance Program would have pulled him off the line and got him the help he needed before this also blew up. These cases are really making me appreciate where I am now. I also wouldn't be surprised if at the arbitration's, the management conduct of WJ gets compared to what would have been expected at other airlines.

I have some real issues with what you are saying here. Unions are many things, but a magical wand carrying cure all is not one of them. I had a friend in a union airline... (I just can't/won't tell you his story for the sake of a point. I'm just going to say things went badly for everyone involved....) So where, exactly, were your magical union wizards in all of this? I would suggest that you take off the rose coloured glasses for a while, and take a realistic look at what a union can and can not accomplish in the real world.

[Airbrake]

It used to be that PAT had power to not even disclose the pilots name for a few days till the dust settled but thats recently changed now Management needs a call from PAT with the pilots name and type of illness he will be off for.....

Lets not forget that 2 of our family of WJ pilots took their own lives in the past 4 years .......lets hope they did not die in vain its time to wake up and stop management harassing you into closed meetings for dreamed up BS
!!

Your comments about PAT and the horrible situation for 2 of our pilots are; uneducated and irresponsibly inaccurate.

[Beaverskipper]

Mentioning the 2 pilots was an error on my part and I apologize for anybody it may have hurt. Emotions sometime get in the way and we all make mistakes. I did not like one of the posts where there seems to be some reference to Williams and my friend in the same post . I understand there are many here that disagree with me but this is a sad situation for everybody involved. Hope it can get treated fairly by the courts for all parties involved.

As for the PAT not having the power it once had ...you need to ask your PAT guy my statement is correct and there have been good guys that quit PAT for that reason.

[Longranger]

I've been a creeper for years but have to chime in on this one

I can't believe some of the things guys are saying about the 2 cases against WJ. I personally know the pilot and believe me he has been through hell these past few years and did and still suffers terrible depression issues.
I wouldn't judge too quickly guys these allegations are exactly that allegations !! I know for a fact that he had a company in alberta with 2 other WJ guys and with the 2008 - 9 economy there the company lost a lot of money . The so called borrowing personal money is bogus they all put money in the company was named KipNic for those Westjetters they will know who one of the partners was. DP called all those guys in 2014 asking them to make a complaint against Kippen. They refused ....

The hunt continued and many nights we talked for hours and his fears were realized when suddenly the benfits were gone and westjet wanted to bring him to a meeting without his lawyer or anyone from WPPA although WJPA could attend.
This was clearly to fire him even though he should still have been disabled and did not have a medical.

Too much detail for here and the courts will decide but on June 8 His family doctor called the OPP for fear that he would harm himself. He was involuntarily admitted to hospital and all firearms removed from his house.
My friend was in a terrible place and had been on depression meds since 2012 , there is no conspiracy to get money from WJ I've seen his letters to his doctors and the reports ....this man was sick.

Rather than offer help they continued to harass him , there are signs that Wj may have been involved in the raid on his property i( 10 OPP Swat team and 2 dogs all with battering rams and lots of adrenaline ) in mid July 2015. They were looking for bomb making materials even though Kippen was nowhere near being involved in the bomb threats against WJ.

Place was wrecked and he cleaned it up with some help from friends.

As for the law suit WJ came out with both barrels loaded with BS and did like they always do they tried to shift the blame back to the accuser.
They did the same with the Lewis case and continue to do it in the flight deck ... allegations of drug use , she was bipolar and ect.
She only was fired for swearing though guys , if you felt your daughters were being assaulted in the workplace and you kept getting blocked by the WJ old boys club wouldn't you have a few choice words for them . Id be livid if I was Lewis father or husband.
No matter what will be decided the company let the Captain get out of Dodge (Hawaii) even though there was an arrest warrant issued for him. They then let him fly only to certain spots where he wouldn't be put in jail.

This has to stop we are all pilots and some of the things happening are very disturbing and the only way to change most of this is to have a union separate from the management loving one the WJPA one is.

I personally know someone who is going through a terrible time now , divorce, financial issues and depression . This guy is so scared to go to management and tell them he's sick and needs time off to deal with those issues that he's flying as little as possible and trying to fix himself.
It used to be that PAT had power to not even disclose the pilots name for a few days till the dust settled but thats recently changed now Management needs a call from PAT with the pilots name and type of illness he will be off for......its scary Sh..


Cant wait for ALPA to move in myself !!

What you are saying is pure BS, and really you only need to read the last line regarding ALPA to see that it is all about an agenda. To stoop to a low level and make accusations about two other pilots who had mental health issues, TOTALLY unrelated to WestJet is the height of insensitivity and shows your total lack of respect for other pilots, you claim to care about. I also knew one of the pilots who took his own life, and you are TOTALLY off base, and don't know what you are talking about. WestJet and the Pilot Support Network is very supportive, is industry leading and respected in the industry and pilots know they can come forward with issues, and all the resources will be offered to them.

I have worked at WJ for over 18 years, and also know the pilot in the lawsuit against WestJet very well, and can tell you with confidence that he is a scam artist, and has obviousily conned you into believing his story as well. He made choices in life, and one of them is to deceive and steal money from people. There are at least five pilots at WJ that have money owing from this person, and many more individuals and companies outside of WJ, in total in the hundreds of thousands he scammed. That's not my opinion but based on facts, just read the publicly available court documents. This is not a hard luck story about a pilot who has been unfairly treated by WJ, but a story of deceit, lies, innuendo with him using anyone and any organization to further his own self interest.

If ALPA were smart, they would get the real straight goods on this person, and run , not walk away from him, as nothing good has ever come from people who bought into his stories.....

[altiplano]

based on facts, just read the publicly available court documents

What court document?

The Westjet filing I assume?

That is one side's version of the story which may or may not contain facts.

[mantogasrsrwy]

I don't know the pilot like Longranger does, but the word I've heard on the street from quite a few sources is as he says. I'm inclined to believe his version. Either way, posting unsubstantiated garbage to encourage union certification is kind of pathetic but not surprising.

[Arctic84]

I've been a creeper for years but have to chime in on this one

I can't believe some of the things guys are saying about the 2 cases against WJ. I personally know the pilot and believe me he has been through hell these past few years and did and still suffers terrible depression issues.
I wouldn't judge too quickly guys these allegations are exactly that allegations !! I know for a fact that he had a company in alberta with 2 other WJ guys and with the 2008 - 9 economy there the company lost a lot of money . The so called borrowing personal money is bogus they all put money in the company was named KipNic for those Westjetters they will know who one of the partners was. DP called all those guys in 2014 asking them to make a complaint against Kippen. They refused ....

The hunt continued and many nights we talked for hours and his fears were realized when suddenly the benfits were gone and westjet wanted to bring him to a meeting without his lawyer or anyone from WPPA although WJPA could attend.
This was clearly to fire him even though he should still have been disabled and did not have a medical.

Too much detail for here and the courts will decide but on June 8 His family doctor called the OPP for fear that he would harm himself. He was involuntarily admitted to hospital and all firearms removed from his house.
My friend was in a terrible place and had been on depression meds since 2012 , there is no conspiracy to get money from WJ I've seen his letters to his doctors and the reports ....this man was sick.

Rather than offer help they continued to harass him , there are signs that Wj may have been

What you are saying is pure BS, and really you only need to read the last line regarding ALPA to see that it is all about an agenda. To stoop to a low level and make accusations about two other pilots who had mental health issues, TOTALLY unrelated to WestJet is the height of insensitivity and shows your total lack of respect for other pilots, you claim to care about. I also knew one of the pilots who took his own life, and you are TOTALLY off base, and don't know what you are talking about. WestJet and the Pilot Support Network is very supportive, is industry leading and respected in the industry and pilots know they can come forward with issues, and all the resources will be offered to them.

I have worked at WJ for over 18 years, and also know the pilot in the lawsuit against WestJet very well, and can tell you with confidence that he is a scam artist, and has obviousily conned you into believing his story as well. He made choices in life, and one of them is to deceive and steal money from people. There are at least five pilots at WJ that have money owing from this person, and many more individuals and companies outside of WJ, in total in the hundreds of thousands he scammed. That's not my opinion but based on facts, just read the publicly available court documents. This is not a hard luck story about a pilot who has been unfairly treated by WJ, but a story of deceit, lies, innuendo with him using anyone and any organization to further his own self interest.

If ALPA were smart, they would get the real straight goods on this person, and run , not walk away from him, as nothing good has ever come from people who bought into his stories.....

involved in the raid on his property i( 10 OPP Swat team and 2 dogs all with battering rams and lots of adrenaline ) in mid July 2015. They were looking for bomb making materials even though Kippen was nowhere near being involved in the bomb threats against WJ.

Place was wrecked and he cleaned it up with some help from friends.

As for the law suit WJ came out with both barrels loaded with BS and did like they always do they tried to shift the blame back to the accuser.
They did the same with the Lewis case and continue to do it in the flight deck ... allegations of drug use , she was bipolar and ect.
She only was fired for swearing though guys , if you felt your daughters were being assaulted in the workplace and you kept getting blocked by the WJ old boys club wouldn't you have a few choice words for them . Id be livid if I was Lewis father or husband.
No matter what will be decided the company let the Captain get out of Dodge (Hawaii) even though there was an arrest warrant issued for him. They then let him fly only to certain spots where he wouldn't be put in jail.

This has to stop we are all pilots and some of the things happening are very disturbing and the only way to change most of this is to have a union separate from the management loving one the WJPA one is.

I personally know someone who is going through a terrible time now , divorce, financial issues and depression . This guy is so scared to go to management and tell them he's sick and needs time off to deal with those issues that he's flying as little as possible and trying to fix himself.
It used to be that PAT had power to not even disclose the pilots name for a few days till the dust settled but thats recently changed now Management needs a call from PAT with the pilots name and type of illness he will be off for......its scary Sh..


Cant wait for ALPA to move in myself !!

What you are saying is pure BS, and really you only need to read the last line regarding ALPA to see that it is all about an agenda. To stoop to a low level and make accusations about two other pilots who had mental health issues, TOTALLY unrelated to WestJet is the height of insensitivity and shows your total lack of respect for other pilots, you claim to care about. I also knew one of the pilots who took his own life, and you are TOTALLY off base, and don't know what you are talking about. WestJet and the Pilot Support Network is very supportive, is industry leading and respected in the industry and pilots know they can come forward with issues, and all the resources will be offered to them.

I have worked at WJ for over 18 years, and also know the pilot in the lawsuit against WestJet very well, and can tell you with confidence that he is a scam artist, and has obviousily conned you into believing his story as well. He made choices in life, and one of them is to deceive and steal money from people. There are at least five pilots at WJ that have money owing from this person, and many more individuals and companies outside of WJ, in total in the hundreds of thousands he scammed. That's not my opinion but based on facts, just read the publicly available court documents. This is not a hard luck story about a pilot who has been unfairly treated by WJ, but a story of deceit, lies, innuendo with him using anyone and any organization to further his own self interest.

If ALPA were smart, they would get the real straight goods on this person, and run , not walk away from him, as nothing good has ever come from people who bought into his stories.....

Oh, now this is really too funny.

[Beaverskipper]

Wow Longranger its not too hard to determine which floor you work on, you obviously don't know my friend the way I do. Ive known him for almost 30 years and the only thing he is guilty of is trying too hard to make a living since I belive his salary was 37,000 to start at WJ.

You have no idea what went on with the company he owned with 2 other WJ pilots from 2008-2012 , there was a recession and money owed from a number of clients including WJ employees.
There were 3 names on the Cert of incorporation and not sure why my friend is the only one named in all this.
There was a bankruptcy both personal and operate as well as divorce and severe mental health issues and defintly no help from WJPA for any of this, Ive seen the emails and texts.
There were tax losses claimed for the guy who you say K owes all this money to , its going to be fun to see what Rev Can says about that

This was a company and had partners but you turned it into K only , many pilots have companies aviation, bars,construction ect. its common. there was a witch hunt for him and while on benefits you found a way to get rid of him like you have tried with numerous pilots.

You seem to be poorly informed but are defiantly in a position to know what the ACCUSATIONS were and don't mind going out of your way to slander and defame someone who is ill.
Has WJ ever done anything wrong in your view ????? how about stealing an airplane from a maintenance shop in the US ? how about spying on AC and throwing the boots to Mark Hill because he was the only one who knew any of the crimes they were committing 20,000 times a day ?

Strange things have happened on the 2nd floor of this company and if someday it all comes out how you actually treat people who don't toe the line your WJ cares sticker slogans will be only good for fire starter.

The great GS a bit of a mouthpiece for CB actually confirmed that people who don't follow the WJ way will be forced to leave, I belive if he had a firing squad like Hitler he would have it set up in the basement and just deal with it internal and save the hassle of having to fire people when they are sick or abused.

One more point before I go ......Have you ever heard of the Canadian donations scandal that a bunch of WJ guys ( mostly management )were involved in at one point ? Why weren't there any investigations into those actions where the Canadian government was scammed out of thousands of dollars.

[brooks]

One more point before I go ......Have you ever heard of the Canadian donations scandal that a bunch of WJ guys ( mostly management )were involved in at one point ? Why weren't there any investigations into those actions where the Canadian government was scammed out of thousands of dollars.

Are we talking about Air Canada?

Btw this investment between 2008-2012, was this "The Flight Deck"?

[WeedPro2000]

As a result of former WJ pilot KK's failure to supply the documents as requested by WJ, the case was discontinued. A perusal of this thread will reveal the negative publicity that WJ received as a result of the actions of KK in filing this claim and for which they will never receive restitution.

Although there is little likelihood that KK will ever settle the debt (which joins a list of unsettled debts) now filed against him, WJ was successful in receiving "costs" against KK in the amount of $8,357.41.

KippenCosts.pdf

(70.35 KiB) Downloaded 202 times

Here is the list of documents that KK agreed to produce for the court, but never did:

WestJet_Requisition_Against_Kippen.pdf

(134.81 KiB) Downloaded 267 times

[WeedPro2000]

... This isn't about money for either side. For WJ, it's about image and brand and for the applicants it's about justice and fairness. The only people saying it's about money are those who are not involved or those whose blind corporate faith is simply going to earn them a piece of pie later on.

FenceSitter, regarding the KK case, if this wasn't about money (on the part of KK), I'll eat the shorts that you've worn continuously every day of a 5 day pairing. Even if you're a dude...

[hurtin'albertan]

As a result of former WJ pilot KK's failure to supply the documents as requested by WJ, the case was discontinued. A perusal of this thread will reveal the negative publicity that WJ received as a result of the actions of KK in filing this claim and for which they will never receive restitution.

Although there is little likelihood that KK will ever settle the debt (which joins a list of unsettled debts) now filed against him, WJ was successful in receiving "costs" against KK in the amount of $8,357.41.

KippenCosts.pdf

Here is the list of documents that KK agreed to produce for the court, but never did:

WestJet_Requisition_Against_Kippen.pdf

What a good little CJW (Corporate Justice Warrior) you are John. Always sticking up for the "big guy". Nice work!