Overseas Contract Information Seminar

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OverseasContracts
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Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by OverseasContracts »

AeroPersonnel Global will be holding an information seminar in YYC March 22 and March 23rd detailing the various contracts available on the B737, B777, B787 and A320. Emphasis will be placed on the various Chinese contracts available on the B737 and A320. Several contracts have options that pay in excess of $450,000USD.

If you are interested, please PM me with your contact information to be added to the attendance list.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Eric Janson »

To anyone planning to attend:-

Don't be fooled by the high $$ figures that are being offered - get a detailed breakdown of how these amounts are calculated.

Example:- Salary may be based on max hours/max overtime which you will not do.

Example:- Various 'Bonuses' that will never be paid.

Be careful of the "bait and switch" tactics that are used to lure you in - once you've resigned and have no way back you are suddenly given a different contract (on lower terms) to sign.

Be careful with promises of bases outside of China - these may not exist or change at a moments notice.

Be sure to try and talk to people who actually work at the companies that are recruiting - the reality can be quite different than what is advertised.

And my personal opinion:- Don't give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat.
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OverseasContracts
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by OverseasContracts »

The seminar is free with no commitment to either the agency or airline. It is simply an information seminar where questions and concerns can be directly answered.

The most lucrative contracts ($450k-$500k USD) are for domestic domicile. Such as this one for B737 pilots:

An all in yearly package totaling 506,000 US$ per year before tax

Before tax remuneration is based on an all in after tax package (averaged over 6 years) of 322,800 US$ per year at a Chinese taxation rate of 36.2 %. Higher home taxation rates would increase the before tax remuneration level. The net of tax package encompasses the following:

- a monthly remuneration package, including allowance and bonuses, averaging 26,900 US$ net of taxes as follows:
- for 75 block hours per calendar month, a monthly salary of 21,889 US$ net of Chinese taxes.
- overtime pay at 300 US$ net of Chinese taxes for block hours above 900 hours per twelve months;
- a yearly safety bonus net of Chinese taxes of 24,000 US $ per year.
- forty two days of paid vacation per twelve months of service;

There are several overseas basing options with various airlines on widebody aircraft. The offshore basing generally do not pay as much as the higher rotation contracts (6 on/2 off) as they are more desirable. Some will recognize B737 PIC time towards B777 or B787 contracts. The same can be said for A320 contracts.

Come to the seminar to hear more detail and get your answers there.
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Ancient
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Ancient »

Eric Janson wrote:Don't give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat.
Blanket statements like this are rarely correct. There are plenty of overseas gigs that are quite good. Maybe even better than even Westjet. :prayer:
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Oscar
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Oscar »

There's been a half dozen or so Captains leave WJ for overseas contracts in the last year, mostly in China. Many more are putting serious thought and research into the options available for them.
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DaveP
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by DaveP »

Hi Oscar
If memory serves this is where they went:

JW initially to China Southern (CS)now gone to CE about a year and a half ago
CM to CS about 6 months ago
IB to Xiamen about a month ago
SK to Lucky Air (I think) about 6 months ago
TB to KLM about 6 months ago
RW to Emirates to be a sim trainer about a year ago
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landshark
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by landshark »

Roumor has it China is no longer taking Canadian license holders. Is this correct?
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by telex »

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Eric Janson
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Eric Janson »

Ancient wrote:
Eric Janson wrote:Don't give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat.
Blanket statements like this are rarely correct. There are plenty of overseas gigs that are quite good. Maybe even better than even Westjet. :prayer:
Just starting my 25th year as Expat. I stand behind my statement.
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Ancient
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Ancient »

Pick your companies. A lot of guys will just go for the first vacation charter airline or LCC that will let them fly a widebody. Flag carriers are what you should be after and even then only certain flags. Another key aspect (if you are in it for the long run) is choosing a country you actually want to live in. Be honest with yourself and ask if this is really somewhere you'd move to even if they weren't offering you that seat in the shiny jet.

Some guys think they'll go overseas for a short stretch to get some experience and come back for a job at AC or whatever but it doesn't always work out that way. They end up having miserable careers because they feel trapped away from home. You need to be prepared to be an expat forever and be open to hopping around from contract to contract until you find one that you want to stay at. Then be prepared for if/when that country decides they want to hire local and kicks you out.

Or you can just suck it up and work like a dog in a bad place, make a million dollars, and retire.
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OverseasContracts
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by OverseasContracts »

landshark wrote:Roumor has it China is no longer taking Canadian license holders. Is this correct?
100% not true.
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Rudy
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Rudy »

OverseasContracts wrote:
landshark wrote:Roumor has it China is no longer taking Canadian license holders. Is this correct?
100% not true.

Is your client in Southern China or Beijing region? Sounds like there are at least two different aviation authorities that might not have the same rules for foreign pilots.
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OverseasContracts
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by OverseasContracts »

CAAC governs all of mainland China. The only stipulation is that candidates come from a "diplomatically recognized" country. Canada qualifies. There are contracts available from Hainan, BCA, China Southern, Xiamen, China Eastern Wuhan, Sichuan and Spring. If you prefer, there are also contracts available in Ethiopia, India, Nepal and hopefully South Africa soon. The Chinese contracts pay much more.

Come to the information presentation. It's free and informative.

Country Inn and Suites
2481 39TH Avenue NE, Calgary
March 22 at 10:30 and 14:30
March 23 at 10:30 and 14:30
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Eric Janson
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Eric Janson »

@OverseasContracts

Sadly I won't be able to attend as I will be in Australia.

As for the 737 contract you posted I plugged your numbers into a calculator and I can't get anywhere near your claimed $450k - S500k even using 1200 hours/year.

For those of you who want to do more research there is a document called "Flying Upside Down" which provides some more details on life in China. It was written by a group of Americans flying EMB 190s in China.

A quick search will turn up a copy.
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Husky51
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Husky51 »

I applied with Uni-Top Airline by curiosity. I was told that they did not accept Canadian applicant for the time being.
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by complexintentions »

I would mostly agree with Eric, based on a little over half as much time overseas. The Flying Upside Down book is funny, but pretty over the top. Enough truth in it to be scary, but also a lot of nonsense as filtered through a US-centric lens. Not to mention, the author was flying an Embraer domestically, whereas longhaul will take you away so it eases things considerably. Certainly China is a pretty wild place to work, live and fly. There's a reason they wave big bucks around. It should also be noted that basing full-time in China is VERY difficult, and that's where the higher salaries are. Pretty much everyone I know that tried to live there was begging for a commuting contract after a few months. And then the pay, while still good, is much less attractive. I know China Southern for example, is offering month on/month off for B777 captains at $14,250USD basic versus $19,000USD for a Guangzhou base. The only way I'd even CONSIDER working in China would be for a 1 on/off schedule. So, it's nowhere near half a mil or whatever the guy is claiming but still pretty good to make nearly 20k CAD/month and have every other one off...but, I have no desire to base out of China. For any money.

If you do go, accept that it's a one-way street. Of course you can go back to Canada, but at the bottom of a seniority list and at outrageous tax levels. And anyone tried buying a house in Toronto lately? So make sure you have an exit strategy and I wouldn't plan on doing it for more than 2-3 years, tops. It could make sense for someone nearing the end of a career to make up some lost ground financially, or someone hungry for money, but believe me you WILL earn it, and you'll pay in other ways.

Do NOT believe everything (anything?) a recruiter or overseas employer tells you. Even if you "get it in writing" you may find your ability to challenge "contract issues" is severely restricted or non-existent once you venture beyond Canada's comfy, coddled borders.

Having said all that, for the adventuresome and adaptable, there is a big wide world outside of Canadian aviation. Gather information if you're interested, but make really, really sure it's what you want and have a plan if it turns out it isn't.

("Make a million and retire". ?? Who can afford to retire on only a million?! How would you pay for a little gem like this one? :mrgreen:)

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Sing ... -Bellwoods
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by RG500 »

Rudy wrote:
OverseasContracts wrote:
landshark wrote:Roumor has it China is no longer taking Canadian license holders. Is this correct?
100% not true.

Is your client in Southern China or Beijing region? Sounds like there are at least two different aviation authorities that might not have the same rules for foreign pilots.

There are at least 3 separate CAAC regions, which almost run autonomously (Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou).
If the information is correct, all airlines based in the Shanghai region aren't accepting Canadian applicants. Unsure as to how long this will last.
In my opinion and if you plan on going to China, agents/head hunters are not worth it. If the airline allows, go via direct hire as these agencies will always take care of their customer first and you, secondly. The agents get their finders fee for you and hold your hand, during the initial screening but if you do your homework and network you can do it all on your own.
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by Ancient »

Almost every Canadian 705 is losing Captains to China. Makes you wonder if some of them got together and made sure the tap got turned off for a while. Has Marc Garneau been to Shanghai recently?
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by '97 Tercel »

Ha! Maybe not as crazy as it sounds.
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Re: Overseas Contract Information Seminar

Post by twinpratts »

Ancient wrote:
Blanket statements like this are rarely correct.
LOL Isn't that, in reality, a blanket statement?
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