Imagine if ALPA OC had had patience, and forethought!

[NewCommercialPilot]

If ALPA OC (see current MEC Chair) had not been springloaded to react, without forethought, the WJ pilots would be in a different situation today (I'll leave the WJE pilots out of the equation because they were hooped by ALPA's Constitution regardless of timing).

If today, the WJPA was still in the driver's seat, the company would be setting up Swoop to be staffed by pilots on the WPDL, the One LIst, on a voluntary basis, with the right of each WJ pilot to sue the company in a competent court of jurisdiction for Breach of Contract if the company went renegade and staffed Swoop, as they are doing today, with pilots strictly OTS.

Move forward to April 20, 2018, one year after the company announced Swoop, and one year after ALPA announced the certification vote. On that date three months from now, ALPA announces the certification vote, with a proposed bargaining unit that includes Swoop pilots. The company might have fought that designation, but in the end, likely would have been unsuccessful, due to the integration of pilots from WJ and WJE into the Swoop flight decks. See Statutory Freeze. See Single Employer.

Instead, what exists, is stunted movement for WJ/WJE pilots that is entirely dependent on attrition and the 787. WJ management and (arm's length) Swoop management will ensure that there is no erosion of bargaining rights of WJ pilots to avoid that single employer designation.

If you have ideas on how to remove ALPA as the bargaining agent at WJ and regain those Swoop jobs, don't hesitate to explore them. Time is running out. At the very least you should seek to remove the reactionary MEC and LEC reps who got you into this mess and install a team willing to negotiate for those Swoop jobs. (But again, time is running out.)

Most of us senior pilots don't have a preference for what you do. We're fine with our existing pay and schedules and just waiting for the 787. Good luck to you in your choices.

#notwinning

[CAL]

Why didn’t the wjpa form it’s own union.....called the wjpa.
They know the lie of the land.

[skypirate88]

I miss NickyNick

[PostmasterGeneral]

...and what if nobody volunteered for Swoop? What’s their incentive?

Not to poke a giant hole in your logic or anything...

[Snagmaster E]

Most of us senior pilots don't have a preference for what you do. We're fine with our existing pay and schedules and just waiting for the 787. Good luck to you in your choices.

#notwinning

Ah yes. The “eat your young” mentality. Bravo.

[Oldcommercialpilot]

Talk about re-writing history. That’s quite the assumption you’ve made about the details the WJPA were able to negotiate, behind closed doors, prior to their dissolution. If memory serves, Swoop was announced on the day the certification vote was announced. I’m quite sure that during those few weeks in the run-up to the ALPA vote there would have been very little negotiating going on with the WJPA, let alone anything as complex as WAWCON, flow, etc. at a brand new company that hadn’t even been named yet. Why would they negotiate at that point?

Which came first John: the chicken or the egg?
Did the pilots bring this all on themselves by voting in ALPA? Or did Saretsky always intend to lower the WAWCON and now ALPA is the best shot at protection?
If you think that Gregg Saretsky & the Board of Directors make business decisions such as starting up an entirely new airline based on emotion and spite for the pilots then I would say thank god you are not in management. Given Gregg’s track record of cost-cutting and attempting to make profits off the back of his own employees, I would say his intention with Swoop from the start has been to reset wages.

For some reason you think you are immune to the fallout from Swoop. How do you expect to ever make any progress on your own WAWCON when you have another airline, in house, doing more work for less pay? Oh, you’re waiting for the 787s are you? Well, how would you feel if they were sent to Swoop for less? Never gonna happen you say? Well, I would encourage you to educate yourself on Jetstar - specifically their fleet types, routes, and corporate structure relative to their parent airline Qantas. Then do some research on the labour unrest and strife that QF pilots have gone through over the past decade as Qantas has continued to symphon off assets and shuffle them over to Jetstar in a sweetheart Deal. Gregg is on record several times stating that he is striving to make Swoop like Jetstar.

[sanjet]

For some reason you think you are immune to the fallout from Swoop. How do you expect to ever make any progress on your own WAWCON when you have another airline, in house, doing more work for less pay? Oh, you’re waiting for the 787s are you? Well, how would you feel if they were sent to Swoop for less? Never gonna happen you say? Well, I would encourage you to educate yourself on Jetstar - specifically their fleet types, routes, and corporate structure relative to their parent airline Qantas. Then do some research on the labour unrest and strife that QF pilots have gone through over the past decade as Qantas has continued to symphon off assets and shuffle them over to Jetstar in a sweetheart Deal. Gregg is on record several times stating that he is striving to make Swoop like Jetstar.

+1
Wait until the next recession, and it will happen.

[altiplano]

Management could have plucked your scope clause straight out of your agreement if you didn't certify.

Those 787s and every new airplane that came through the door could have gone to Swoop or wherever and management could have stagnated you all in your current positions without recourse. Nobody is guaranteed growth or promotions (upgrades) without an agreement.

As I read it they could still send those 787s to Encore.

Swiss was in a similar situation negotiating replacements for its overseas fleet with its pilots in 2014... When the mainline pilots wouldn't do it for less, the regional "Swiss European", which at the time only operated BAE146s, was rebranded "Swiss Global" and got the 777s, they also got the CS300 & 100s...

So from once only a regional with 20 BAE146s in 2015, by the end of this year they will be:
10 B777
10 CS100
20 CS300
+ 30 CS300 on order

Meanwhile, Swiss International (ie. mainline) is slowly being divested of their overseas fleet (330/340s) and will stagnate as an all 320/321/neo fleet with no growth.

Pretty much the definition of whipsawing... and then being hung out to dry.

[Rowdy]

Good luck getting the 787 without a scope clause.

Someone will swoop in and steal your seat.

[Oldcommercialpilot]

Most of us senior pilots don't have a preference for what you do. We're fine with our existing pay and schedules and just waiting for the 787. Good luck to you in your choices.

#notwinning

You know, I’ve always found your “screw-the-junior-guy” attitude amusing. Concerning, but amusing. Funny you still don’t see the implications.

It’s classic airline management: screw over the junior pilots as they are in the minority and are the low-hanging fruit. Senior pilots don’t care enough to take a stand as they are unaffected. This works well until... one day, these once-junior pilots become the majority. Then it’s time for management to switch gears. Now it’s the senior pilots’ turn to take a haircut and there is very little sympathy from the rest of their colleagues as they are the ones who are now unaffected and still remember the lack of support from their senior counterparts. Wouldn’t it be much better if we could all stand in unity and preserve the profession?

[altiplano]

They're turning the tide at Cathay now against the A or is it B scalers...

Pulling out the housing allowance and not paying Captains their annual bonuses... of course the junior D scalers or F scalers or whatever they are, are relishing in it... certainly not standing up for, or with these guys that sold them out before they even arrived.

['97 Tercel]

You know -----, I’ve always found your “screw-the-junior-guy” attitude amusing. Concerning, but amusing. Funny you still don’t see the implications.

Why say his name?

[Dyna]

Relax. Everyone relevant to the conversation knows who he is. He doesn’t try to hide it himself. Why do you care?

[Squid]

You know John, I’ve always found your “screw-the-junior-guy” attitude amusing. Concerning, but amusing. Funny you still don’t see the implications.

Why say his name?

Unmasking someone's nonpublic realname, or other private information, is generally considered impolite if not aggressive, regardless whether the community places high value on realnames or not.
So basically trying to intimidate in this case is my take.

['97 Tercel]

Pretty much

[Oldcommercialpilot]

To be honest, I didn’t realize I used his first name.
It’s no secret to anyone who he is. As mentioned above, he is very forthcoming with his identity.
But, nevertheless, you guys are right. I’ve edited my post to remove NewCommercialPilot’s name and I apologize.

I see my post was quoted a few times. Perhaps you fellas could edit your posts as well to remove the name from the quote. Thanks.

[MrMerth]

He's posted in the past with his employee number.

[moe]

....and his paystubs

[lostaviator]

Everyone just start ignoring every post this nutcase makes as was the case on the WJPA forums. Multiple posts a day made up of non-sense and new websites for a cause of the month.

This post in non-factual; there's no proof to back any of the statements.

[Snagmaster E]

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