Let's all apply at Swoop!

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Jimmy2
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Jimmy2 »

I imagine it is higher than Westjet FO wages?
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DropTanks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DropTanks »

Only higher than Year 1-2, maybe 3 year F/O. That's how bad this whole thing is. They're targeting JUNIOR F/O's to take the upgrade that year 7,8,9 or 10 F/O's have worked for and waited years for! It's disgusting and it shouldn't happen. Shit, I flew with a Captain that would have loved to bid Abbotsford but not for a 50% pay cut! Basically it's a complete end run around seniority at WJ. Any WJ F/O that's far from upgrade that applies to Swoop should be ashamed.
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mbav8r
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by mbav8r »

AvifiskAlly wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:52 am
Blue Side Up wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:35 am
montado wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:01 am Funny how when my colleagues are able to further themselves at my expense, and the B scale is on my back, I am entitled and a complaining generation who does not deserve better. Then they would say I am a scab to apply for a job at swoop that pays twice my salary.

Why not you do you and I do me? Obviously all the whiners here about swoop have great jobs they are worried about. But we don't deserve a job like the one they have, in fact some of these guys would have a contract cut our pay 30 percent if it meant they could have more of the pie for themselves.

So your advice is really for people to sit back and watch others progress their careers because you have some moral issues with swoop. You are all just as much a scab as anyone taking a swoop job if at any point in your career you signed a bond, voted a contract that favor your pay and benefits over a new hire, or did anything that put you ahead at the expense of your peers. I recon there's a whole pile of scabs at mainline and westjet. Please identify yourself as you shit on all the swoop applicants and tell me how now this is different.

The comments here are as if you are all mother Theresa in the ethics department.

Hey man, I totally see where you're coming from. I was at Jazz when the lower working conditions were voted in. I always thought of Jazz as the best regional in Canada and it showed with the amount of guys who made 30+ year careers there. How do you think ALPA justified the lower wages? By comparing the WAWCON at Jazz to places like Georgian and Encore. There favourite thing to say was "that we need to remain competitive" to keep the AC contracts. Unfortunately thats the way this industry works... Once a group of pilots accept a WAWCON that is below industry standard it brings everyone down to that level. If it wasn't for Georgian and Encore lowering the bar, Jazz would still have a DB pension, great starting pay and much better working conditions than they do now for anyone who's on the B scale.

By accepting a job at Swoop or Flair or any one of these competing ULCC you're lowering the bar for all pilots in Canada. What do you think the company will say when its time for negotiations? They'll look at all the pilots flying 737s for Swoop, Jetlines and anyone else and say "Hey, look...Those guys are flying the same airplanes for XX% less than our pilots" and the race to the bottom will continue.

We're at a time where pilots at most carriers in the world are getting pay raises and here we are in Canada lowering the bar even further. We should ALL be pushing for pay raises right now. All anyone has to do is not apply to Swoop and they'll be forced to do something about it. I can't believe we're allowing companies to make profits off the backs of pilots at a time when our profession is experiencing a shortage of qualified individuals.

The race to the bottom needs to stop! Management in the US is approaching the pilots and giving them 30-40% raises and he we are accepting jobs that pay 30-40% less.... Get your shit together guys. If you do end up at AC or WJ and the pay there has deteriorated... you have no one to blame but yourself and management.
Tthat is a very scary and simplistic view. If Jazz did not accept lower wages that were competitive US regionals would be doing the GGN work, GGN would be doing a bunch of the Jazz domestic work, CMA a bunch more, PAL even more and SKY would have slowly grown into a much larger airline.

The same will happen to Swoop, if they can't compete in the ULCC market Flair will, Jet Lines will and some other new guy will. If yiou like the offer - go, if you dont accept the fact that others may view this for what it is - A BETTER JOB THAN THEY HAVE NOW
So in your expanded view of what could’ve happened, you’re ok with airline management shifting higher paid jobs to lower paid jobs for the same work?
Thanks for all you do for the industry and what used to be a respected profession!
Thank goodness my kids wanted nothing to do with this profession and I’m so glad I have less than a quarter of my career left to go, I mean how much damage can idiots like you do over the next 10 years.
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RidersRule
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by RidersRule »

Yeah by my calculation a year 3 WJ FO will be making the same as a year one captain at Swoop, by the time u factor in increased ESP and stock option. And the little bit of work rules we do have will be 100% more then Swoop. And since profit share is a factor of earnings, a year four WestJet FO will be receiving a larger profit share cheque then a Swoop captain finishing his first year.

My kids are heading down different paths as well. Thank goodness.
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DropTanks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DropTanks »

But guys don't you see? It's better for him and his family! I mean such an altruistic motive gives him CARTE BLANCHE to do absolutely anything he wants to improve life in his household. Rob a bank? Why not? The money would help his family. Steal the money from the donation box to pay for little Timmy's braces? Sure! Stab your fellow aviator in the FACE while smiling at them to get ahead? Go for it! Morals don't apply because it's for his family you see. 🙄
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Legacy
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Legacy »

And you know the family card is BS to justify taking a swoop job otherwise they would go down to the smaller 795 operations that pay better flying dash 8s,etc. That family card only goes so far then it's apparent they just wanna step over everyone's feet just so they can fly jets.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by C.W.E. »

Is what Swoop is paying illegal?
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DropTanks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DropTanks »

In fact it is not. The company refuses to negotiate with the certified labour group on the subject. And no, laying terms down on the table saying "take it or leave it" is NOT negotiating. In a nutshell they are offering jobs to people for WAWCON they have no business offering. That's how labour law works. But something tells me that's all gonna change over the next few weeks/months 😉. ALPA's not sitting this one out. That's all I can say on the subject. There'll likely be NO off the street pilots at Swoop, as it should be.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

DropTanks wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:06 am We're just pissing in the wind trying to teach these wannabe Swoopsters. The fact is they're selfish. They want to jump the queue and take work away from WJ and Encore pilots that have scratched and clawed to get their positions on the seniority list. This is tantamount to crossing a picket line and doing struck work because it's "good for MY family". GFY. They just don't get it and they don't want to get it so we're wasting our time trying to teach them. Don't think for a second that it'll be as simple as walking into a DEC spot and WJ ALPA will just lay down and die. This will be fought as far as the law will take it. Oh right! THE LAW that protects a unionized labour group from exactly this kind of bullshit. Good luck in your new DEC positions because you might just find yourself right seat on a Q400 looking up at 2000 pilots when this is all said and done. These positions should be bid on internally in order of...ahem...SENIORITY. Create some movement in what will otherwise be a stagnant pilot list. Maybe just maybe we can get to a 100% flow for Encore pilots permanently. Look at me going on about the way it should be, I almost forgot you don't care at all about anybody else. Well have at er. Don't expect any help from anybody when your precious new Swoop position evaporates into thin air.
As long as the job is done by WS pilots so that WS pilots can enjoy the horrific lifestyle and continue to complain about how hard done by they are and so pass the shite down the ranks.

Hey man, all the power to you guys, I hope you get forced into this (and by forced I mean made to think you single handedly got your flying back), I hope they negotiate some sort of horrific WAWCON with ALPA so that these threads can continue to be as entertaining and actioned packed as they have been over the last week. Lord knows Pink will slot in somewhere between WS and Encore and screw up the flow for everyone at Encore but who cares, you're likely on a 37 staring down the totem pole banging your chest in the name of...?

All that matters is YOU get YOUR flying back. Lord help the pilot who accidentally tries to fly YOUR jet.

GFY and your group a 'selfless' twats. The last person you are doing this for is the guys looking to better the industry.

I say again, from a much earlier posting, ahem...hypocrite.

S.
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by C.W.E. »

I really can't give an opinion on unions from a pilots point of view because I never flew for a company with a union as a pilot, although I did work for an airline as chief pilot that was a union company and as I recall that union did not really do much for the pilots outside of collect their union dues.

I do find this Swoop thing interesting and waiting to see how it evolves. :mrgreen:
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DropTanks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DropTanks »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:54 pm
DropTanks wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:06 am We're just pissing in the wind trying to teach these wannabe Swoopsters. The fact is they're selfish. They want to jump the queue and take work away from WJ and Encore pilots that have scratched and clawed to get their positions on the seniority list. This is tantamount to crossing a picket line and doing struck work because it's "good for MY family". GFY. They just don't get it and they don't want to get it so we're wasting our time trying to teach them. Don't think for a second that it'll be as simple as walking into a DEC spot and WJ ALPA will just lay down and die. This will be fought as far as the law will take it. Oh right! THE LAW that protects a unionized labour group from exactly this kind of bullshit. Good luck in your new DEC positions because you might just find yourself right seat on a Q400 looking up at 2000 pilots when this is all said and done. These positions should be bid on internally in order of...ahem...SENIORITY. Create some movement in what will otherwise be a stagnant pilot list. Maybe just maybe we can get to a 100% flow for Encore pilots permanently. Look at me going on about the way it should be, I almost forgot you don't care at all about anybody else. Well have at er. Don't expect any help from anybody when your precious new Swoop position evaporates into thin air.
All that matters is YOU get YOUR flying back. Lord help the pilot who accidentally tries to fly YOUR jet.

There you go champ! You're starting to get it now. Because yes it IS OUR FLYING. And yes I am on the 37 but not looking down. Looking up at an upgrade that went from 10 years to never if you have it your way. So yes Lord help the pilot who PURPOSELY tries to fly OUR jets.
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tbaylx
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by tbaylx »

DropTanks wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:04 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:54 pm
DropTanks wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:06 am We're just pissing in the wind trying to teach these wannabe Swoopsters. The fact is they're selfish. They want to jump the queue and take work away from WJ and Encore pilots that have scratched and clawed to get their positions on the seniority list. This is tantamount to crossing a picket line and doing struck work because it's "good for MY family". GFY. They just don't get it and they don't want to get it so we're wasting our time trying to teach them. Don't think for a second that it'll be as simple as walking into a DEC spot and WJ ALPA will just lay down and die. This will be fought as far as the law will take it. Oh right! THE LAW that protects a unionized labour group from exactly this kind of bullshit. Good luck in your new DEC positions because you might just find yourself right seat on a Q400 looking up at 2000 pilots when this is all said and done. These positions should be bid on internally in order of...ahem...SENIORITY. Create some movement in what will otherwise be a stagnant pilot list. Maybe just maybe we can get to a 100% flow for Encore pilots permanently. Look at me going on about the way it should be, I almost forgot you don't care at all about anybody else. Well have at er. Don't expect any help from anybody when your precious new Swoop position evaporates into thin air.
All that matters is YOU get YOUR flying back. Lord help the pilot who accidentally tries to fly YOUR jet.

There you go champ! You're starting to get it now. Because yes it IS OUR FLYING. And yes I am on the 37 but not looking down. Looking up at an upgrade that went from 10 years to never if you have it your way. So yes Lord help the pilot who PURPOSELY tries to fly OUR jets.
Not sure being a stockholder makes them your jets, but you're gonna fail your next medical with blood pressure like that.
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DropTanks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DropTanks »

I'm quite relaxed actually. Playing Xbox all day, got my feet up and everything.
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Dry Guy
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Dry Guy »

10 YEAR FO's? Jesus.
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Jimmy2
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Jimmy2 »

I like how now you're trying to get Swoop to join ALPA. Should have thought of that before you blacklisted them.
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DropTanks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DropTanks »

Haha. You seem to be misinformed. Nobody's trying to get Swoop to join ALPA. What you have here is a crisis of chicken and the egg. I believe Swoop will in fact be staffed by ALPA pilots by simple virtue of management attempting to end run around the certified labour group. That's ummmm...how do you say it...🤔...frowned upon in Canada's labour law so you know, there's that.
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Jimmy2
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Jimmy2 »

I guess it will come down to who is smarter. Pilots or management. I wish you luck but history is not on your side unfortunately.
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RidersRule
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by RidersRule »

Westjet planes...WestJet pilots...WestJet WAWACON.

Tell me this. If your current employer brought in the exact same AC and paid 50 cents on the dollar would that disappoint you? Would u do anything about it(or at least try)?

I honsestly don't know how it's going to play out. What I do know is we stand a lot better chance with ALPA steering our pilot group then we do the WJPA. I got a good feeling about this, but I am a glass half full type of guy.

Life's pretty damn good. It will be even better when Swoop gets dealt with in a positive way for our pilot group and the industry as a whole.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

DropTanks wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:04 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:54 pm
DropTanks wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:06 am We're just pissing in the wind trying to teach these wannabe Swoopsters. The fact is they're selfish. They want to jump the queue and take work away from WJ and Encore pilots that have scratched and clawed to get their positions on the seniority list. This is tantamount to crossing a picket line and doing struck work because it's "good for MY family". GFY. They just don't get it and they don't want to get it so we're wasting our time trying to teach them. Don't think for a second that it'll be as simple as walking into a DEC spot and WJ ALPA will just lay down and die. This will be fought as far as the law will take it. Oh right! THE LAW that protects a unionized labour group from exactly this kind of bullshit. Good luck in your new DEC positions because you might just find yourself right seat on a Q400 looking up at 2000 pilots when this is all said and done. These positions should be bid on internally in order of...ahem...SENIORITY. Create some movement in what will otherwise be a stagnant pilot list. Maybe just maybe we can get to a 100% flow for Encore pilots permanently. Look at me going on about the way it should be, I almost forgot you don't care at all about anybody else. Well have at er. Don't expect any help from anybody when your precious new Swoop position evaporates into thin air.
All that matters is YOU get YOUR flying back. Lord help the pilot who accidentally tries to fly YOUR jet.

There you go champ! You're starting to get it now. Because yes it IS OUR FLYING. And yes I am on the 37 but not looking down. Looking up at an upgrade that went from 10 years to never if you have it your way. So yes Lord help the pilot who PURPOSELY tries to fly OUR jets.
The only thing I'm seeing is entitlement - and no it's not my way - I'm not your management, I'm not a Swoop applicant - I'm just watching Avcanada's active posts.

I could make it 'my way' and purposefully go out of my way and apply to hopefully keep you in the right seat and on your xbox.

Hmmm. :smt023

S.
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DropTanks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DropTanks »

You know, if you're standing in a room and feel like everybody around you is crazy, then there's a pretty good chance it's actually you.

Hmmmmm 🙄
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