Swoop/Sunwing/Transat: Hourly Pay

[NewCommercialPilot]

Hey there! I thought I would dig out some factual stuff regarding Swoop pay, because, you know, facts. I'm using only the first three pay steps for Captains and FO's, and not including any credit for years of service.

Captain..Swoop...........SunWing (2017*)....TransAt (narrowbody)

Step 1 - $103.57.........$103.57.............$103.57
Step 2 - $119.50.........$119.50.............$119.50
Step 3 - $131.46.........$131.46.............$131.46


First Officer

Step 1 - $55.83.........$55.83.............$55.83
Step 2 - $69.62.........$69.62.............$69.62
Step 3 - $76.58.........$76.58.............$76.58


Given that Swoop pilots are at this point not a certified employee group, but Unifor and ALPA represent the Sunwing and Transat pilots respectively, I demand answers as to why Unifor and ALPA lowered the bar for pilot salaries in Canada!


Sources:
Swoop (Captain)

Swoop (First Officer)

Sunwing
*The 2018 pay scales for Sunwing are in the above document. I used 2017 scales to show where Swoop pay came from.

TransAt

[yyc757]

Hey troll,

SW makes FAR more then just those hourly rates.

[Rotten Apple #1]

What is more, without any negotiation at all, these are the pay rates Swoop is offering pilots. Had the WJ pilots NOT certified with ALPA, these pay rates would have been higher, meaning higher than what ALPA negotiated at Transat and what Unifor negotiated at Sunwing. Former WJPA executives have unofficially confirmed that talks were underway regarding pay at Swoop and those talks were progressing with no indication that the WJPA's position of rates close to WJ pilot's existing rates would be dismissed out of hand. ALPA's only position on pay at Swoop was that only WJ pilots would fly planes owned/operated by a WJ controlled airline. That is a position that so far has been unsuccessful.

Additionally, in order to satisfy political concerns, ALPA is effectively trying to freeze WJ and WJE pilots from these jobs. There are some who will take advantage of the LOA offered by WJ/WJR to take these jobs, but they do so at the risk of losing their spot on the as yet to be negotiated seniority list(s), as well as risking the opprobrium of ALPA and its membership.

The majority knew better.

Long live the 39ers!!!!!!!!!!!

(The 38.7% of us who voted against ALPA is a hard number to sloganize unless it is rounded up,,,)

[tbaylx]

Hey troll,

SW makes FAR more then just those hourly rates.

So does swoop. Profit share, $12500 bonus first 2 years, ESPP... The point he was trying to make is that while hardly Canadian industry leading the swoop pay rates are competitive with any other 737 operators. Sometimes that seems to get lost here in the rhetoric.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Hey troll,

SW makes FAR more then just those hourly rates.

Other than establishing that some trolls have high IQ's, what is your point regarding Canada/USA pay rates? How has that worked with any industry negotiating in Canada? Pay is market driven, and the USA is a separate market.

[tbaylx]

Hey troll,

SW makes FAR more then just those hourly rates.

Other than establishing that some trolls have high IQ's, what is your point regarding Canada/USA pay rates? How has that worked with any industry negotiating in Canada? Pay is market driven, and the USA is a separate market.

I think he meant Sunwing..Not Southwest

[Legacy]

Hey troll,

SW makes FAR more then just those hourly rates.

Other than establishing that some trolls have high IQ's, what is your point regarding Canada/USA pay rates? How has that worked with any industry negotiating in Canada? Pay is market driven, and the USA is a separate market.

I think he meant Sunwing..Not Southwest

His HIGH IQ should have determined that. I guess we have determined that some trolls don't have a high IQ

[Fanblade]

ALPA's only position on pay at Swoop was that only WJ pilots would fly planes owned/operated by a WJ controlled airline. That is a position that so far has been unsuccessful.

My understanding is that clause is part of your current agreement. If so it can only be altered one of two ways. Negotiation or a stirike/lockout.

It would seem to me the unsuccessful group so far is WJ management. They haven’t managed to negotiate their way out of their commitment to you. Think about who you are siding with.

The side that wants to renege on a commitment to you?

or

The side trying to make management live up to their commitment to you?

Look. I’m not a huge fan of unions either. I view them as a necessary evil. One thing I can tell you though is you lost the certification vote. Democracy ruled. Anyone pushing disunity now is hurting themselves and everyone else around them.

Unless of course your management. If so carry on.

[Fanblade]

Hey troll,

SW makes FAR more then just those hourly rates.

Other than establishing that some trolls have high IQ's, what is your point regarding Canada/USA pay rates? How has that worked with any industry negotiating in Canada? Pay is market driven, and the USA is a separate market.

So why did you leave out Rouge then?

Full credit for years of service. If you have been an FO for eight years and get upgraded to CA you go to step 9.


2‐Apr‐17 STEPS
Hourly
CA 319/321

1 - 145.49
2 - 150.46
3 - 155.36
4 - 160.13
5 - 165.02
6 - 170.07
7 - 176.92
8 - 183.70
9 - 190.64
10- 197.39
11- 201.36
12- 205.37

FO 319/321

1 - 55.49
2 - 60.67
3 - 69.14
4 - 77.42
5 - 97.30
6 - 101.76
7 - 105.37
8 - 106.49

[CaptainHaddock]

Transat for sure and I would guess Sunwing also have trip credit. WestJet does not, so I’m Swoop sure won’t either. So a guy/gal working for the same hourly wage is going to be working more hours at Swoop. So he/she is in effect working for less $ than either Sunwing or Transat. I would be curious what there guarantee and OT triggers are too.

You are really keen on dividing your own pilot group which I have a hard time understanding, you can’t turn back time. All you are doing now is trying to undermine the majority of your coworkers, people you have worked with for over a decade. Who is more relevant to your professional life., GGG, Exec VP’s, or the guy you are doing a 30hr 3 day with?. Anyway it’s obvious you will continue your campaign of division, I don’t see any up side for it though.

[jjj]

Rotten Apple,

Your point has been unequivocally blown up. Thank you fellow posters.

BTW - you may not call yourselves the 39ers. The number is bloated because every day people who voted against the Union are now vocally showing support.

I look forward to this matter getting settled - it will take a few more bloody noses on either side of the table but that’s ok.

Frankly our opinions don’t really matter right now as the situation is before the CIRB.

They will hand out whatever medicine is required on either side and that will be that.

Time to get on with it.

JJJ

[dumbbell daddy]

Not quite sure if this was mentioned before but SW’s pay is based on 1000 hrs/yr. Isn’t SWOOPS based on 77.5 or similar per month?

For what’s it worth, I just flew with an FO (SW) a little while ago that worked a bit of OT/deployed to Europe and made mid 6 figures. I guaranteed he worked far less days then even a WJ FO.

They’ll be times in the year where you go 6-7 weeks without even turning an engine.