WJ Scab List

[yyc757]

I do know that when ALPA was formed, the constitution prevented non-whites and women from being members, so it wouldn’t surprise me if a “scab list” was maintained.

I’m not a scab (yet), but I do identify as one.

If you're going to bring up such things then let's start talking about all the statues that need to be brought down. Then according to the same folks that believe such an action is correct we can continue with their logic or thought patterns and so we have to now say you have white privilege and also male privilege as well. Because of this privilege you are not allowed to have an opinion on such subjects!

Now.... answer Bede's question.

[Bede]

I do know that when ALPA was formed, the constitution prevented non-whites and women from being members,...

... complains the guy who plasters his posts with alt-right dog whistles.

[WeedPro2000]

yyc757, I expect you’ll be there picketing on the 8th so you can ask me in person, what you would like to know. But I suspect you’re courage is only on anonymous forums.

I don’t hold anything against you personally. I remember our pairing together and you seemed nice enough.

Same goes for bede, he can grow a set, drop the anonymity thing and ask me in person.

And to answer one of the posters above, you can add my name to that scab list now, with my approval. Unless you have something more than shame in your plans, it’s not going to stop me going to work. If I were you, I’d go the violence route. That might make me stop. ALPA members did that in the Air Nova strike in the late 90’s, use physical violence, so I’m pretty sure it’s still in the ALPA tool box.

[Checklist]

yyc757, I expect you’ll be there picketing on the 8th so you can ask me in person, what you would like to know. But I suspect you’re courage is only on anonymous forums.

I don’t hold anything against you personally. I remember our pairing together and you seemed nice enough.

Same goes for bede, he can grow a set, drop the anonymity thing and ask me in person.

And to answer one of the posters above, you can add my name to that scab list now, with my approval. Unless you have something more than shame in your plans, it’s not going to stop me going to work. If I were you, I’d go the violence route. That might make me stop. ALPA members did that in the Air Nova strike in the late 90’s, use physical violence, so I’m pretty sure it’s still in the ALPA tool box.

I wouldn’t expect an answer, JS’s contract probably prohibits him from answering a question that might give credence to ALPA.

[Checklist]

Aw John calling other people out for being anonymous....

Wasn’t WeedPro2000 at one time not just a confused, concerned, WestJet pilot with bad grammar?

[Jean-Pierre]

Answer Bebe question!

[WeedPro2000]

My contract?

You think I'm doing any of this because someone asked me to? You think that I'm being paid somehow, secretly or overtly, to somehow undermine ALPA?

Dude, no. I'm doing what I think is best purely in my own interest. I'm not thinking of anyone else but myself. I'm spending my own time, and my own money, furthering my own interests. I don't care about anyone else, as regards ALPA and its actions against WJ.

Now, please clarify what chicken bede asked me. I'm finishing off my German novel while I make plans to oppose ALPA's demonstration next week; in other words, I'm busy.

What's the question?

[WeedPro2000]

chicken yyc757, can you ask me the question then? I don't know what chicken bede's question was?

I'll gladly answer it.

John Swallow
2-five-zero two-08 seven-four-6-2

[yyc757]

Here is Bede's question. Now read it carefully. And once you understand it, please answer in English.



Hi John,

I respect your loyalty but I'd like your opinion on the latest info. According to the recent meetings, the company is proposing reserve, 19 days work, no OT until 87.5hrs. This would mean that your days of huge T4's would be all but over. This is the return on loyalty that the company is giving you. It seems like an awfully one sided relationship- you defend them at the cost of your relationship with your colleagues and in return they want to cut your wages. Would you agree that voting NO would only encourage management getting these concessions from us?

[tbaylx]

Here is Bede's question. Now read it carefully. And once you understand it, please answer in English.



Hi John,

I respect your loyalty but I'd like your opinion on the latest info. According to the recent meetings, the company is proposing reserve, 19 days work, no OT until 87.5hrs. This would mean that your days of huge T4's would be all but over. This is the return on loyalty that the company is giving you. It seems like an awfully one sided relationship- you defend them at the cost of your relationship with your colleagues and in return they want to cut your wages. Would you agree that voting NO would only encourage management getting these concessions from us?

And ALPA is proposing swoop flying at mainline wages, and a 30% cost increase to Westjet. Both sides seem to have thrown out a wish list. Guess you'll meet in the middle somewhere like negotiations usually do.

[Bede]

And ALPA is proposing swoop flying at mainline wages, and a 30% cost increase to Westjet. Both sides seem to have thrown out a wish list. Guess you'll meet in the middle somewhere like negotiations usually do.

World of difference. We have a still valid agreement with a scope clause saying that all WJ flying (and that of affiliates and subsidiaries) will be done by WJ pilots. It's black and white. The company simply ran roughshod over our agreement.

[yyc757]

Awe weed are you upset? Calling people names now and at that such a witty insult! About as bright as the guy that calls Steve Martin "big nose" in that movie Roxanne.

Now at this point I have to formally caution you that abusive name calling is unacceptable. Name calling is a former of bullying. Tsk Tsk.

[WeedPro2000]

Ok fair enough, I understand the question.

Here is the thing, ALPA has only shown you one side of a negotiation that was on going. This is how negotiations go. It looks ugly at times. So, I understand that the WJ's position wight now has shock value. I also know that it isn't the final word.

This strike vote is about Swoop and NOTHING else. It is not about fair working conditions or feeling valued or fatigue or big bad company or anything else, it is about Swoop.

What has the WJ ALPA MEC attached to luggage handles? Specially designed covers that say "WestJet flying for WestJet pilots". AKA Swoop.

What has the WJ ALPA MEC drawn up for stickers that have plastered everywhere? Stickers that read "Stealing Work Off Our PIlots". AKA Swoop.

Contrast that with what ALPA is saying officially:

The goal is to peacefully present a united group of professional pilots to the shareholders, fellow employees, the public, and media to show pilot solidarity and desire for a timely negotiated agreement that reflects the pilots’ value and contributions to the continued success of their company.



Background:



The WJA MEC and its pilots are fighting for a fair contract with industry standard wages, working conditions, and job protection.



The last negotiation session of the WJA pilots’ conciliation period ended Wednesday, April 25, with very little progress. The 21-day cooling off period under the Canada Labour Code began April 27.



Pilots have opened a strike vote and are preparing for the end of the Cooling-Off period.



WestJet pilots believe management has not been serious in its approach to negotiations, nor are they recognizing the value that dedicated professional pilots bring to the company. Pilots remain far apart on nearly all of the most important issues to the pilot group – even though contract requests are reasonable and represent industry standard in relation to their competitors.

This is from the info sent out last night. Where is the mention of Swoop? Nowhere. The ALPA MEC is going to paint the company as not negotiating a fair contract, when in reality it has precious little to do with that. It is all about Swoop.

WJ proposed back in September that Swoop working conditions be offered to mainline pilots and negotiated, subject to the condition that ALPA not bring a common employer action. ALPA refused. Fair enough, Swoop was from that point on, not on the negotiation table. Next, WJ offered leaves of absences to mainline pilots and WJE pilots to work at Swoop. ALPA brought WJ to court and the offer of LOA's were then rescinded. So now we have OTS pilots, 46 I hear, training to start operations in June. #winning

I believe the company when they tell me about Swoop. It is a rearguard action. They are WWII Germany beefing up the west front, while they deal with the Russians in the east. No different. In our present case , the real battle is the wide bodies and business class and building the brand for international expansion. I totally get that. It is unfortunate that WJ pilots chose ALPA as their means to defend against Swoop, but so have they done. The WJPA was in the early stages of a negotiation with WJ regarding pay for Swoop pilots, when the certification happened. Instead of 46 WJ/WJE pilots in those seats, with the movement and career and lifestyle enhancements it would have brought, we gave those jobs to others.

Once ALPA decided against negotiating the Swoop jobs, and likely some sort of Scope provision, the company's hands were tied. They couldn't backpeddle on the Swoop announcement. That wasn't going to happen. Period. To do so would have brought the scrutiny of all stakeholders in the competence and plans of the C-suite.

ALPA's next move was to force a strike over the issue, making the Swoop question a fundamental plank of any worthwhile offer from the company. They couldn't wait until negotiations were over on the CBA and then file a common employer application. That would have delayed dues income to Herndon, VA too long, (as they are not being paid right now), and also would have tossed the issue into the hands of the CIRB. Anyone who has read any of the 17 related court actions over the Regional/AC common employer action knows how that can go.

I hear that ALPA will launch a common employer action on May 19th, after the expiry of the cooling off period. Good luck with that. I'm sure the company's lawyers are prepared to defend that action.

I understand the reasons why ALPA had to politically bring this to a strike vote. They loaded up the pilots with expectations last year. They aren't going to fulfill those expectations, but they have to look like they are doing something.

All this brings us to whether this strike vote is just something that brings everyone to the table on the night of the 18th and results in a TA, or a partial TA with fully paid WJ pilots at Swoop and the rest to be dealt with over the summer. No one knows for sure what will happen. Maybe someone will blink.

Or not.

Maybe some psychology is necessary to think how CB is going to react. How will the man who faced Air Canada head to head going to react?

Back down?

Anyhow, I'm not going to go back and correct any grammar mistakes in this post. I really want to find out how world war 2 finishes in my book (Winter Der Welt). One of the characters is just arriving over the coast of France and preparing to jump out. Of course I can relate to Fallschirmjäger, so I'm keen to go back to reading.

I'm sorry we all have differing opinions on unions and philosophy etc. But we do.

Choose your sides well. (It's nothing personal.)

Herr Feldwebel Schwalbe
OberKommando der Wehrmacht

[WeedPro2000]

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/03/02 ... 415429200/

HALIFAX -- Eastern Provincial Airways' 92 striking pilots are willing to return to work under terms of their old contract but the company, which started replacing them, won't take them back.

Capt. Keith Lacey, head of the EPA local of the Canadian Air Line Pilots Assocation, told a news conference Tuesday the offer was unconditional. 'We were hoping for some increase in pay but there never was any demand by us for higher salaries.'

'Why did we negotiate all these months?' said EPA marketing vice-president Merv Russell. 'Why did he (Lacey) take 92 people out on strike?'

The pilots, without a contract since last September, walked out Jan. 20 in a dispute that centered on the airline's demand they fly an extra five hours every month, a move CALPA said would compromise safety.

In a letter last month, EPA warned the union it would start hiring new pilots beginning March 1. Eastern Provincial hopes to restore full services before April 24, when an amalgamation deal with CP Air takes effect.

The five-week strike forced the regional carrier to cut back operations by 60 percent.

Russell, who started hiring new pilots Tuesday, dismissed CALPA's offer.

'Why? We've just got ourselves eight excellent pilots today, pilots who won't play silly games,' Russell said. He said hiring would continue until all 92 pilots still on strike were replaced.

Before hiring the eight new pilots, now taking flight simulator training at Halifax, the airline was relying on three management pilots, another seven who have broken ranks with CALPA, and a dozen pilots contracted from a Timmins, Ont., company.

In addition to making their return-to-work offer, the pilots gave reporters a copy of a Telex the union received Feb. 25 from Jean Claude Hebert, a member of EPA's board of directors.

'At last somebody is prepared to make a stand against you over-dressed, over-sexed, over-paid bus drivers,' Hebert's message said. 'CALPA has been blackmailing all airlines long enough with your irresponsible demands and for salaries that are completely exorbitant when it is getting easier and easier to fly an airplane, not more difficult.'

Lacey said the Telex was a typical example of the poor labor relations which existed between the pilots and the company.

[WeedPro2000]

Chris, I shouldn't have taunted you with the chicken yyc757 thing.

I apologize. This is an anonymous forum and you are under no requirement to reveal yourself publicly.

To the rest of you YES voters, I think you have to keep a couple of things in mind. One, WJ can't simply bend to a strike vote result and then capitulate. To do so, would be a green light to the other employee groups waiting in the wings. If all they have to do to get their Christmas wish list fulfilled is to vote in a union and then do a strike vote, well, that would be grooming them to behave in the wrong way.

Secondly, I think you have been served by the wrong group of people in key positions in LECs and MECs. I like two members of the YYC LEC, and don't really know about the third. In the other LECs and MEC there are too many with chips on their shoulders, and too many that have fought for too long against the company going back almost a decade. You should have chosen moderates to form the first group of reps. Instead a group too readily willing, like little rocket men the weapon of mass destruction in their possession.

But then, Clive has a tool or two of his own, and as long as the investment community and the BOD don't think he has lost his marbles, he just might get the chance to use them.

I'm preparing my finances as if tomorrow is the second last paycheck I'll receive for a while.

Toodles

[lownslow]

Chris, I shouldn't have taunted you with the chicken yyc757 thing.

I apologize. This is an anonymous forum and you are under no requirement to reveal yourself publicly.

[BE02 Driver]

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/03/02 ... 415429200/

HALIFAX -- Eastern Provincial Airways' 92 striking pilots are willing to return to work under terms of their old contract but the company, which started replacing them, won't take them back.

Capt. Keith Lacey, head of the EPA local of the Canadian Air Line Pilots Assocation, told a news conference Tuesday the offer was unconditional. 'We were hoping for some increase in pay but there never was any demand by us for higher salaries.'

'Why did we negotiate all these months?' said EPA marketing vice-president Merv Russell. 'Why did he (Lacey) take 92 people out on strike?'

The pilots, without a contract since last September, walked out Jan. 20 in a dispute that centered on the airline's demand they fly an extra five hours every month, a move CALPA said would compromise safety.

In a letter last month, EPA warned the union it would start hiring new pilots beginning March 1. Eastern Provincial hopes to restore full services before April 24, when an amalgamation deal with CP Air takes effect.

The five-week strike forced the regional carrier to cut back operations by 60 percent.

Russell, who started hiring new pilots Tuesday, dismissed CALPA's offer.

'Why? We've just got ourselves eight excellent pilots today, pilots who won't play silly games,' Russell said. He said hiring would continue until all 92 pilots still on strike were replaced.

Before hiring the eight new pilots, now taking flight simulator training at Halifax, the airline was relying on three management pilots, another seven who have broken ranks with CALPA, and a dozen pilots contracted from a Timmins, Ont., company.

In addition to making their return-to-work offer, the pilots gave reporters a copy of a Telex the union received Feb. 25 from Jean Claude Hebert, a member of EPA's board of directors.

'At last somebody is prepared to make a stand against you over-dressed, over-sexed, over-paid bus drivers,' Hebert's message said. 'CALPA has been blackmailing all airlines long enough with your irresponsible demands and for salaries that are completely exorbitant when it is getting easier and easier to fly an airplane, not more difficult.'

Lacey said the Telex was a typical example of the poor labor relations which existed between the pilots and the company.

Ahhhhh, good ol' Keith Lacey........

[WeedPro2000]

As I mentioned before, the WJ pilots have not been served well by their MEC and other members in key positions of ALPA.

The Chairman of the MEC, the YVR LEC Chairman and the YVR LEC Secretary, all the three members of the Negotiating Committee, the Chair of the Strike Preparedness Committee, and indeed the Chair of the Flight Safety Committee all share a similar pedigree. They all appear here. Pause the video as soon as the link opens. I might be missing a person or two, so if I've left you out by mistake, drop me a note and I'll amend the above list.

These people were all members of the WPPA, the defunct union that had a short lived life but a very caustic relationship with WestJet that included, among other things, the WPPA filing two separate Unfair Labour Practice complaints against WJ.

These people quickly ended up in key positions within the ALPA structure and I would suggest that their history with the WPPA should have made these people ineligible for office at ALPA. But, less than 25% of ALPA members voted in the LEC elections, so I guess, people get the union they deserve.

Some of the above have been agitating for far too long for a union at WJ and I suggest they must be itching to use the WMD's in their possession.

I am told it is possible to go to the ALPA website and change your vote. Perhaps forcing ALPA to go back to the table and continue talks would be in everyone's best interest at this point.

Good luck in your life choices.

[Rezy]

As I mentioned before, the WJ pilots have not been served well by their MEC and other members in key positions of ALPA.

The Chairman of the MEC, the YVR LEC Chairman and the YVR LEC Secretary, all the three members of the Negotiating Committee, the Chair of the Strike Preparedness Committee, and indeed the Chair of the Flight Safety Committee all share a similar pedigree. They all appear here. Pause the video as soon as the link opens. I might be missing a person or two, so if I've left you out by mistake, drop me a note and I'll amend the above list.

These people were all members of the WPPA, the defunct union that had a short lived life but a very caustic relationship with WestJet that included, among other things, the WPPA filing two separate Unfair Labour Practice complaints against WJ.

These people quickly ended up in key positions within the ALPA structure and I would suggest that their history with the WPPA should have made these people ineligible for office at ALPA. But, less than 25% of ALPA members voted in the LEC elections, so I guess, people get the union they deserve.

Some of the above have been agitating for far too long for a union at WJ and I suggest they must be itching to use the WMD's in their possession.

I am told it is possible to go to the ALPA website and change your vote. Perhaps forcing ALPA to go back to the table and continue talks would be in everyone's best interest at this point.

Good luck in your life choices.

This is entirely pointless. Going back to the last 8 months and saying you’re upset with representation is pointless when there is a strike vote coming out in a few days. Why not wait for the strike vote and then we will see how how well the ALPA MEC is representing its pilots. My guess... 90%+ vote yes.

[GAF]

Hey JS. You may want to get your facts straight regarding the negotiating committee. It appears you don't know what you don't know. Yvr LEC have nothing to do with negotiating. The 3 guys involved aren't on the MEC or LEC. But hey, why let facts get in the way of your bs? You are incredibly outnumbered with your opinion. I sure hope that China contract works out for you. See you next Tuesday, the 8th