Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

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FL020
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by FL020 »

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Last edited by FL020 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oleo 4
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by Oleo 4 »

common employer has not been filed for very specific reasons at this time. The resources provided to them by ALPA and guidance they have received to this point had been unmatched by our executives.

They are not playing catch up like some.
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FICU
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by FICU »

FL020 wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 5:05 am Unfortunately for tbaylx...there is no lec/mec where was was JUST employed.............. :rolleyes:
TSB to Swoop???
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squawk
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by squawk »

Diadem wrote: Fri May 18, 2018 5:20 pm
pigboat wrote: Fri May 18, 2018 4:47 am When your tax rates reach over 50% of the dollar YOU earn; there is something Wrong with the tax laws. In Ontario, 52.5% goes to Little Justin and Catherine. Neither has the slightest clue of anyone that actually works for a living. I wonder how Justin survives on his daddy's trust funds.
That's the marginal rate, not the average rate. In Ontario, you would have to literally make over $1 million/year in taxable income, assuming you got no deductions whatsoever, in order to lose over half your money to taxes.
Not sure what tax haven you’re living in. But it’s not in this land of low temperatures and high taxes! EY has the chart on this below.
4438DC4B-65CB-457F-9F27-4BD5FF9D09D6.png
4438DC4B-65CB-457F-9F27-4BD5FF9D09D6.png (223.6 KiB) Viewed 6442 times
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by AuxBatOn »

Yup, that'a not 50%.. on 220K, you pay 80K in taxes. That's 36%.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by aerobod »

squawk wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 4:16 pm
Diadem wrote: Fri May 18, 2018 5:20 pm
pigboat wrote: Fri May 18, 2018 4:47 am When your tax rates reach over 50% of the dollar YOU earn; there is something Wrong with the tax laws. In Ontario, 52.5% goes to Little Justin and Catherine. Neither has the slightest clue of anyone that actually works for a living. I wonder how Justin survives on his daddy's trust funds.
That's the marginal rate, not the average rate. In Ontario, you would have to literally make over $1 million/year in taxable income, assuming you got no deductions whatsoever, in order to lose over half your money to taxes.
Not sure what tax haven you’re living in. But it’s not in this land of low temperatures and high taxes! EY has the chart on this below.4438DC4B-65CB-457F-9F27-4BD5FF9D09D6.png
From the E&Y chart, the taxable income (after deductions) will have a tax rate paid as follows for each $100K increment up to $1m:

$100K - 24.6%
$200K - 35.2%
$300K - 41.2%
$400K - 44.2%
$500K - 46.1%
$600K - 47.3%
$700K - 48.2%
$800K - 48.9%
$900K - 49.4%
$1m - 49.8%
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squawk
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by squawk »

AuxBatOn wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 5:30 pm Yup, that'a not 50%.. on 220K, you pay 80K in taxes. That's 36%.
That’s only if you’re eligible for apilicable tax credits. See note 2 on website. Pilots should stick to flying and saving money. Both of which they are good at.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

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Double post
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by AuxBatOn »

squawk wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 5:59 pm
AuxBatOn wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 5:30 pm Yup, that'a not 50%.. on 220K, you pay 80K in taxes. That's 36%.
That’s only if you’re eligible for apilicable tax credits. See note 2 on website. Pilots should stick to flying and saving money. Both of which they are good at.
Nope. Note 2 says that you should reduced your tax amount by any credits you may have. What you have in the table is the max you can pay for a given gross income.
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altiplano
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by altiplano »

Marginal rates aren't average rates... it's true.

It's a little better, but it doesn't change the fact that we're taxed too much - and every one of the parties is guilty as the other.

Same shit, different pile...
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Diadem
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by Diadem »

How do you define "too much"? Considering what we get for the taxes we pay, I don't think I pay too much at all. After all my deductions and smart tax planning, I paid about 8% income tax last year; including consumption taxes like GST and gas taxes, let's be generous and say I paid 15% overall. Now, I don't want to give my income away, but I'll say that the actual amount that I paid is well worth what I got for it. I don't have to pay tolls on every road, starting from my driveway; I have clean water, and my sewage is taken away from my house; my kids have free education; I have firefighters and police available at all times; I have military protection, including SAR; I have ATC; I can go to the hospital at any time, for any reason, and it won't cost me anything; and there are countless other services supported by my taxes. Regardless of what you think of the merits or execution of each of these areas, I don't think anyone can argue that we're all better off because we pool our resources, and it's far better to pay a little into the pot than the exorbitant amounts that would go into paying for our own medical bills or keeping a private fire department on retainer. It would be nice to pay less tax, but the value that I receive for what I pay can't be beat; putting your kid in private school, for example, costs multiple times the amount that most individuals contribute to education funding.
Canadians pay rates comparable to, or substantially less than, a lot of European and Asian countries, so when you say that we pay "too much" what exactly is the metric by which you determine that? There are lots of countries where rates are lower, but they are usually developing and don't provide the number or quality of services we receive here. Since we apparently pay "too much", I'm curious to know the specific amount that is considered to be just right, and how that is calculated.
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atphat
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by atphat »

Can you please explain “smart tax planning”?
How you paid 8% in income tax?
Thanks.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by snowcone »

The Liberals in Ontario have made it quite clear that working hard and being successful will cost you.

We now pay for lower middle classes tution while we get nothing. We do pay extra for access to health care with the Health premium ($900/year), Ontario surtax (deficit tax until they balance the buget...never).

There is talk of getting rid of the RESP program beacuse it is not fair to everyone, they did away with income splitting beacuse it didn't beneift everyone. The TFSA limits have been reduced because those who don't pay other taxes weren't able to benefit from it.

I pay for my own water supply and water. OPP policing in rural areas is incredibly expensive and limited at best.

I do not feel I get my monies worth from my taxes. I guess I can feel good I can pay for someone's kids tution while I pay for mine as well. (Its been shown that people have already changed their employment habits to take advantage of the free tution in ON).
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by Schooner69A »

Re-read Diadem’s post, because it bears repeating again. People who endlessly whimper that they’re “paying too much in taxes” never stop to think about what they’re getting for their money.

And don’t forget the old mantra: “If you’re paying big taxes, you’re making BIG MONEY”. Stop snivelling.
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countdown
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by countdown »

Yes, like many, I have been all over the world and we have it very good here. That said we are not getting value for our money, the mismanagement at all levels of government is criminal.

If I could legally pay 8% you would hear no whining from me - I call bullshit, and so does my accountant.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by mbav8r »

Yep absolutely bull shit, I paid almost 8% of my income to property tax alone in addition to over 40% coming off my pay check. I put away over 23k in retirement savings which knocked my taxes down that I actually got a return, poor planning however I usually just put away enough to offset the 6-8 grand I would owe the province I live in vs the province I work in.
Also the aforementioned property tax, I have a well for water, a septic system for sewage, no street lights, volunteer fire department 7 Kms away, no pavement, I pay to have someone pick up my garbage and 3 days after a big storm after I’ve cleared a path out with my own equipment so we can get out, a plow comes by and does a half ass job. I’ve also never seen a police car drive down my street other, although maybe the bylaw officer counts, mind he’s there to hand out fines so probably doesn’t count.
So no I don’t feel as though I’m getting my money’s worth and according to the tax calculator I found, Diadem is making around 20,000/yr to only pay 8%. Is that it Diadem you’re making below poverty wages but feel as though you’re getting a good deal, while everyone else pays for the services you cherish so much?
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altiplano
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by altiplano »

Sure we have some services, but "Value", that is something we absolutely don't have.

I would gladly take health care out of my taxes and pay for my own health insurance if it would mean getting in to see a specialist or having a procedure done timely, vs. the multi-month, year-plus waiting lists that exist... People are living poor qualities of life, dying even, while they wait for someone to see them... then you have governments spending millions of our money to fight in court anyone that wants to do something about it.

Roads? Really? In my area the only 2 decent options for the 9-5ers are tolled and both are expensive... the other options are inadequate for most regular times of day and crumbling... city roads are full of pot holes and poor planning... what should be an easy choice to support as an alternative - public transit infrastructure is grossly inadequate, it's almost comical they even try. These services are supposed to be paid for by gasoline excise taxes, which by the way are also subject to HST... taxed on taxes... but most of those taxes are diverted.

Education? Really? Our schools are crumbling faster than the Gardner expressway... it's about 50-50 in my experience if your kid is going to get a good teacher, an engaged teacher who will be there the whole year, who wants to be there... Kids are in portables as the school bursts at capacity, trudging through the snow to go inside and use the bathroom.

"Military protection" LOL... no disrespect to our men and women serving, but they certainly aren't being given the tools or support or capability they ought to receive from our tax dollars... I'm not some Hawk when it comes to this... but like our roads and schools and healthcare... crumbling.

I won't go on and on... I agree we are better off on many things by having a public service. But as taxes go up and we get less in return... the value certainly isn't there. It pains me to see the waste. Where does all our money go?

Look at some of our Northern European comparators if you want to talk Value... free healthcare, exceedingly available and efficient transit, free daycare, world leading education, free university, equipped militaries, more vacation, even paid sabbaticals for everyone, a higher standard of life...

8%? 15%? I don't know what you do... but that doesn't sound realistic.
I'm North of 30% average income tax and climbing in average taxation with as efficient "planning" as this gov allows for (tax deferral accrued from all the years I couldn't afford to save which just means the tax comes later). Plus most of what you buy is taxed at 13%, in this province anyway. Property tax is constantly climbing, maybe represents 3-4% of my pre-tax income. Water and waste goes up every year, extra assessments and account fees on utilities represent as much as the energy cost... and are taxed too...

I don't mind paying, but we are barely getting a Chrysler for our BMW payments...
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by Old fella »

Altiplano

In your lengthy dissertation one item I noticed missing is tax fairness, which in my view is shameful and disturbing for such a country as ours. I won’t get into a rant on offshore tax havens because we all read about those, other than it is gratifying to see the CRA crack down with charges and prosecutions , ditto for that real estate issues in B.C. and other large cities.
What annoys me the most(although legal) is professional people specialist doctors and high end lawyers etc setting up incorporated companies for the sole purpose of greatly reducing their taxable income. As has been noted such people utilize family members, kids even as directors/ employees or whatever to get around tax issues. I understand now rules have tightened up somewhat but it was grossly unfair to begin with. The average wage earner and retiree like me cannot incorporate to avoid the CRA hands. I bet many of these high income earning professionals pay less that myself and wife do on our retirement pensions and RIF deductions, as a matter of fact I get into heated discussions with a family member who does exactly that. The response is “ well tis perfectly legal” which it is.

The biggest knock here in Canada is tax fairness in my view. Nothing is free here or anywhere, if you want Medicare, roads, services and the like you pay,period and full stop. There is a segment of the population here who wants and get the services but contribute little towards it.

Having said that with warts and all I am quite happy going to my 68th year to have spent all those years as a Canadian. I wouldn’t turn that in for anywhere else.
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altiplano
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by altiplano »

I understand what you're saying there.

From some professions being able to incorporate and income split by paying family members, to the highest earners sheltering off shore, to corporate sponsored lifestyles with low marginal rate taxation, to wealthy people making money by loaning themselves the money for their "mortgage" which they pay back inside a tax shelter while writing off costs... and as you say... all legal and difficult to watch when we can't enjoy that.

Lots of layers of getting around it for those that can...

But as happy as I'd be to enjoy those perks, I say good for them...

I don't want to drag them down - I want to get there too...

But either way, I want to see fair return on the taxes I pay. I think Canada is a special place in a lot of ways, but our culture of dragging the other crabs that are trying to climb out back into the pot is disappointing.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

Post by Old fella »

Yes and I see your point as well. I have nothing, absolutely nothing against high wage/income earners as for the very most part they worked hard to earn and get their keep like you good on them I say. Ditto for a senior AC pilot on a B777/87 getting their salary and a good pension, you worked hard for and deserve it. My motto is rather that bitch about such ranks, work hard and join them.

But"........ fairness is missing. I have no difficulty contributing to the coffers to keep’er running but I want to be treated fairly in doing so and IMHO fairness just isn’t there yet. Perhaps it will be at some point.

:drinkers:
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