WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

[Dry Guy]

I'm pretty sure that is what happened. People are saying that is too expensive for a bluff but don't realize what the cost to the company could have been if major WAWCON gains were demanded instead of Swoop scope.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I'm pretty sure that is what happened. People are saying that is too expensive for a bluff but don't realize what the cost to the company could have been if major WAWCON gains were demanded instead of Swoop scope.

Too expensive ? What have they invested ?

[tailgunner]

One could argue that WJ, has heavily invested in intangible ways. The WJ BOD has invested in strained employee relations. They have taken a very motivated work force and have essentially created a somewhat antagonistic foe, not only with the pilots but with the FA's and CSA's.
They obviously have decided that the costs of having disenchanted and disheartened employees was worth it it to challenge Flair and Canada Jetlines.
The interesting and challenging thing will be to see how much real damage this approach will bring WJ moving forward. It can reasonably be assumed that the FA's and CSA's will also be unionized within 12 months.
On the surface it would seem that this will be a way to high cost versus the ultra low cost market, but if one views Swoop as a union bust entity then perhaps that ledger is not so cut and dried.

[Rezy]

What if that whole Swoop business was just a bluff ? Once everything is signed, since Swoop was the biggest issue, Westjet can just agree to let Westjet pilots fly Swoop against having them agree to other major concessions, and then just Sweep Swoop under the rug.
Naw, it couln't be. No one is that cynical

What has Westjet realy invested in Swoop so far ? New aircraft leases ? New purchases ? New hangars ? Don't know, its a genuine question.

If you listen to the investor call, there are many questions and concerns from investors regarding cost overruns at Swoop. WJ stock was downgraded the next day because management wasn’t able to provide the confidence to investors that is has cost under control. Make no mistake WJ has spent tens millions trying to get Swoop flying and WJ may not see a profit in Q2 simply due to high Swoop costs and no revenue generation from Swoop.

[Dry Guy]

Yes, very motivated and loyal employees that just unionized.

To understand management actions and strategies you need to see it from their perspective. They see a bunch of people that just unionized and are about to take the company to the cleaners.

[Mach1]

Yes, very motivated and loyal employees that just unionized.

To understand management actions and strategies you need to see it from their perspective. They see a bunch of people that just unionized and are about to take the company to the cleaners.

Yes. Much like being upset that the person you just mugged called the cops. How dare they?

[mbav8r]

Yes, very motivated and loyal employees that just unionized.

To understand management actions and strategies you need to see it from their perspective. They see a bunch of people that just unionized and are about to take the company to the cleaners.

Chicken or the egg, or did the pilots unionize because of the actions of management over the last few years?

[LegoMan]

.

[Tango Niner]

I'm pretty sure that is what happened. People are saying that is too expensive for a bluff but don't realize what the cost to the company could have been if major WAWCON gains were demanded instead of Swoop scope.

Too expensive ? What have they invested ?

A paint job and a complete cabin reconfiguration on at least one airplane. That's tangible cost.

swoop737.jpg (93.41 KiB) Viewed 3160 times

[Gilles Hudicourt]

A paint job and a complete cabin reconfiguration on at least one airplane. That's tangible cost.

How much is that compared to say, 5% of the salaries of all pilots at Westjet and Encore ?

[bobcaygeon]

So how does capturing the Swoop flying and YOS benefit the top 1/3 of the pilot group? We all know they never "take one for the team". It's ALPA 101

Preferential seniority based bidding for vacation and monthly schedule?? Pay protection??

With YOS coming in you can bet the payscale will change ie 20 years to top of scale now vs current. Same with vacation?

It's far from over.

[arctic_slim]

Am I the only one that laughed at the threat of a lockout? I would have said, go head have at it. I sell all my available westjet shares right now and I have enough money to live on for months, and watch the company lose millions. Seriously? They will shut down the company and lockout pilots? To me that's such an empty threat. They would be willing to lose millions, lose a huge amount of loyal guests to Air Canada and watch the share price tank? Might as well shut it all down and declare bankrupcy. CB would really do that? I'd say, go head let's see what happens. It's insulting.

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not on a negotiating committee.

[Legacy]

So how does capturing the Swoop flying and YOS benefit the top 1/3 of the pilot group? We all know they never "take one for the team". It's ALPA 101

Preferential seniority based bidding for vacation and monthly schedule?? Pay protection??

With YOS coming in you can bet the payscale will change ie 20 years to top of scale now vs current. Same with vacation?

It's far from over.

Yeah but show me one company that has a 20 year pay scale

[Legacy]

Yes, very motivated and loyal employees that just unionized.

To understand management actions and strategies you need to see it from their perspective. They see a bunch of people that just unionized and are about to take the company to the cleaners.

Funny, that is how we have seen the execs for that last bunch of years.

[cloak]

It is probably a very good idea to exercise some restraint and discretion in commenting as WestJet has unequivocally said that they will NOT negotiate in public and they will NOT do something to benefit one group to the detriment of another. It's unlikely that unprofessional behaviour and mob mentality are going to be tolerated by the company or ALPA. It may be fun venting anonymously, but if these are indeed WestJet pilots, yes it is definitely a good thing that they are NOT on the negotiating committee!!

[Maritimer]

We will not negotiate in public!

......but stand by while we create and promote a publicly accessible website for everyone/anyone to see.

[Foo Fighter]

So how does capturing the Swoop flying and YOS benefit the top 1/3 of the pilot group? We all know they never "take one for the team". It's ALPA 101

Preferential seniority based bidding for vacation and monthly schedule?? Pay protection??

With YOS coming in you can bet the payscale will change ie 20 years to top of scale now vs current. Same with vacation?

It's far from over.

Yeah but show me one company that has a 20 year pay scale

Jazz's B scale pilots salary has a 20 year pay scale

[C-GGGQ]

One item no longer on the table is whether unionized pilots will fly for WestJet's new discount airline, Swoop. Sources inside the union had told CBC News that issue was a major sticking point and likely significant enough to motivate pilots to strike when Swoop launches on June 20.

In the end, the two sides agreed Swoop's pilots will be part of the union. Their compensation and other details are still being negotiated.

From Cbc this morning

Though the CBC article does make it sound vague whether westjet union pilots will fly swoop or swoop pilots will join the union

[bobcaygeon]

So how does capturing the Swoop flying and YOS benefit the top 1/3 of the pilot group? We all know they never "take one for the team". It's ALPA 101

Preferential seniority based bidding for vacation and monthly schedule?? Pay protection??

With YOS coming in you can bet the payscale will change ie 20 years to top of scale now vs current. Same with vacation?

It's far from over.

Yeah but show me one company that has a 20 year pay scale

Jazz had a 16 year scale when I worked there (No B scale at the time)

Another Canadian ALPO carrier currently has a 20 year payscale too.

I can't figure out how to post a jpeg of them.

That's what happens with YOS

[C-GGGQ]

Removed