WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

[Fanblade]

As if the morale at Encore could go any lower... here it is

Yes Encore pilots are the biggest losers in all of this.

Really?

The only thing released was an interm order. It’s objective is only to keep the place operating until the real outcome is determined.

It will all come out in the wash.

Labor issues are notoriously slow to get resolves when they head to arbitration. Rendering the decision after the final date can sometimes take months. Patience.

[Tango Niner]

...
A college of professional pilots might actually be a good idea. Unfortunately professional associations need ledgislation to make it happen as they need control over licensing. The licensing forces collectivism. It forces people to do what they are instructed. Which in turn provides leverage at the bargaining table. Your kidding yourself if you think a Doctor or Nurse has much individual say within the public system.

Airlines will fight this legislation allowing pilots to become a college and licence themselves tooth and nail. I realize a college of pilots in Canada is currently being attempted. Unfortunately licensing is not at the forefront. Without licensing it will have no teeth. It can advocate but can not negotiate.
...

Good points, college of pilots would be a great achievement.

There's an earnest attempt at this already. It hasn't caught fire yet but it should. Check it out:

https://www.collegeofpilots.ca/

[Hangry]

...
A college of professional pilots might actually be a good idea. Unfortunately professional associations need ledgislation to make it happen as they need control over licensing. The licensing forces collectivism. It forces people to do what they are instructed. Which in turn provides leverage at the bargaining table. Your kidding yourself if you think a Doctor or Nurse has much individual say within the public system.

Airlines will fight this legislation allowing pilots to become a college and licence themselves tooth and nail. I realize a college of pilots in Canada is currently being attempted. Unfortunately licensing is not at the forefront. Without licensing it will have no teeth. It can advocate but can not negotiate.
...

Good points, college of pilots would be a great achievement.

There's an earnest attempt at this already. It hasn't caught fire yet but it should. Check it out:

https://www.collegeofpilots.ca/

Do you mean the organization that just appointed a fatigue denier to the board?? The one that lost all credibility? It should catch fire indeed.

[Fanblade]

Good points, college of pilots would be a great achievement.

There's an earnest attempt at this already. It hasn't caught fire yet but it should. Check it out:

https://www.collegeofpilots.ca/

Do you mean the organization that just appointed a fatigue denier to the board?? The one that lost all credibility? It should catch fire indeed.

Or the organization that is not perusing licensing and accreditation?

Just because they use the word college doesn’t make it so.

They are an advocacy group. Another lobbying body. Nothing else.

I’m not saying they don’t have a relevant place in our profession. Just that they do not fit the bill as a College.

[FlyYYC]

If one bids to Swoop how does bidding back to Mainline work?

[B757FO]

If one bids to Swoop how does bidding back to Mainline work?

Through the standing quarterly bid and when positions are available.

[tbaylx]

This wasn’t a win for swoop pilots.. go and read the interim order again it’s clear your here only until your fate is determined at a later date. You are redundant swoopsters never forget that as are we and that’s been proven time and time again. If you think the company will pay bypass pay to 1000 first officers to keep you in your seats you are sadly mistaken. The Company I am sure is banking on the fact no one will bid the 26 positions in yhm which they will. This equates to hundreds of thousands of dollars per pilot in bypass pay. You think they will keep you around for it? Your going to the right seat in three months and you guys know it. That part of the interim order including the words bypass pay sealed your fates right there. All a first officer has to do now is bid captain at swoop today and get a nice fat pay check in the years to come until all of you are gone out of those left seats.

Oh and btw the YEG base is all westjet Captains who I can’t wait for you guys to meet.

You may have budded in line to the party swoopsters but the bouncer is coming soon to move you back where you belong and now it’s legal where that’s probably gonna happen.

Thanks in advance for trying to be professional launching my airline in YHM. I’ll make sure that I’m professional when you are my first officer in six months.

Glad to hear it, we’ll be equally as professional doing your line indoc and line checks. Welcome to Swoop, it’s going to be a great place to work.

[Jean-Pierre]

Congratulation to WestJet pilot for securing their scope. This was the number 1 most important item.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Yes but unfortunately I imagine that the company will get what they wanted too....Swoop flying for lower than mainline wages

[Hangry]

This wasn’t a win for swoop pilots.. go and read the interim order again it’s clear your here only until your fate is determined at a later date. You are redundant swoopsters never forget that as are we and that’s been proven time and time again. If you think the company will pay bypass pay to 1000 first officers to keep you in your seats you are sadly mistaken. The Company I am sure is banking on the fact no one will bid the 26 positions in yhm which they will. This equates to hundreds of thousands of dollars per pilot in bypass pay. You think they will keep you around for it? Your going to the right seat in three months and you guys know it. That part of the interim order including the words bypass pay sealed your fates right there. All a first officer has to do now is bid captain at swoop today and get a nice fat pay check in the years to come until all of you are gone out of those left seats.

Oh and btw the YEG base is all westjet Captains who I can’t wait for you guys to meet.

You may have budded in line to the party swoopsters but the bouncer is coming soon to move you back where you belong and now it’s legal where that’s probably gonna happen.

Thanks in advance for trying to be professional launching my airline in YHM. I’ll make sure that I’m professional when you are my first officer in six months.

Glad to hear it, we’ll be equally as professional doing your line indoc and line checks. Welcome to Swoop, it’s going to be a great place to work.

Ugh. You’re gross. No shame.

[Fanblade]

Yes but unfortunately I imagine that the company will get what they wanted too....Swoop flying for lower than mainline wages

I have never heard of arbitrators giving out pay cuts. However your current contract, minus any gains you might make now, or have already agreed to, probably wouldn’t be considered a pay cut.

So having separate WAWCON is likely. However the gap won’t be nearly as large as what WJ management is attempting.

[mbav8r]

tbaylx,
I think you must realize by now this is not going to end well for you, that is obvious by your antagonistic remarks. When you’re already hated, might as well drive that final nail in.
The fact that WJ will have to pay bypass pay sealed your fate, meaning if an FO with 500 pilots below bids the left seat at swoop, all 500 will get captain pay. You might think management has some loyalty to you because of some fantasized thought that you did them a solid, when the “bill” comes in for that loyalty, I’d be completely dumbfounded if you kept your seat.
Even keeping an FO position is too good for you but I’ll enjoy that almost as much as if you were outright let go.
Enjoy it while it lasts!

[Sharklasers]

You typically only bypass pay the most Sr FO who would have held and is bidding the left seat. 26 Swoop pieces of garbage= 26 FOs getting bypass pay.

[tbaylx]

This wasn’t a win for swoop pilots.. go and read the interim order again it’s clear your here only until your fate is determined at a later date. You are redundant swoopsters never forget that as are we and that’s been proven time and time again. If you think the company will pay bypass pay to 1000 first officers to keep you in your seats you are sadly mistaken. The Company I am sure is banking on the fact no one will bid the 26 positions in yhm which they will. This equates to hundreds of thousands of dollars per pilot in bypass pay. You think they will keep you around for it? Your going to the right seat in three months and you guys know it. That part of the interim order including the words bypass pay sealed your fates right there. All a first officer has to do now is bid captain at swoop today and get a nice fat pay check in the years to come until all of you are gone out of those left seats.

Oh and btw the YEG base is all westjet Captains who I can’t wait for you guys to meet.

You may have budded in line to the party swoopsters but the bouncer is coming soon to move you back where you belong and now it’s legal where that’s probably gonna happen.

Thanks in advance for trying to be professional launching my airline in YHM. I’ll make sure that I’m professional when you are my first officer in six months.

Glad to hear it, we’ll be equally as professional doing your line indoc and line checks. Welcome to Swoop, it’s going to be a great place to work.

Ugh. You’re gross. No shame.

i occasionally rise to the bait. If you read the post I replied to then mine and you think i'm the problem then I can't help you.

[chief]

This wasn’t a win for swoop pilots.. go and read the interim order again it’s clear your here only until your fate is determined at a later date. You are redundant swoopsters never forget that as are we and that’s been proven time and time again. If you think the company will pay bypass pay to 1000 first officers to keep you in your seats you are sadly mistaken. The Company I am sure is banking on the fact no one will bid the 26 positions in yhm which they will. This equates to hundreds of thousands of dollars per pilot in bypass pay. You think they will keep you around for it? Your going to the right seat in three months and you guys know it. That part of the interim order including the words bypass pay sealed your fates right there. All a first officer has to do now is bid captain at swoop today and get a nice fat pay check in the years to come until all of you are gone out of those left seats.

Oh and btw the YEG base is all westjet Captains who I can’t wait for you guys to meet.

You may have budded in line to the party swoopsters but the bouncer is coming soon to move you back where you belong and now it’s legal where that’s probably gonna happen.

Thanks in advance for trying to be professional launching my airline in YHM. I’ll make sure that I’m professional when you are my first officer in six months.

Glad to hear it, we’ll be equally as professional doing your line indoc and line checks. Welcome to Swoop, it’s going to be a great place to work.

highly doubt any of you will be doing line indoc or line checks. Now that it’s operated under the same umbrella, our current line check and line Indic pilots can do it. I wonder who will be doing YOUR line check and line Indoc. Lol

[tbaylx]

tbaylx,
I think you must realize by now this is not going to end well for you, that is obvious by your antagonistic remarks. When you’re already hated, might as well drive that final nail in.
The fact that WJ will have to pay bypass pay sealed your fate, meaning if an FO with 500 pilots below bids the left seat at swoop, all 500 will get captain pay. You might think management has some loyalty to you because of some fantasized thought that you did them a solid, when the “bill” comes in for that loyalty, I’d be completely dumbfounded if you kept your seat.
Even keeping an FO position is too good for you but I’ll enjoy that almost as much as if you were outright let go.
Enjoy it while it lasts!

Not sure why I'm bothering but your ignorance on the bypass arbitration is astounding. Try rereading the bypass clause. There are 26 captain bypass slots. That's it. IF you bid one you stay at mainline until you can hold a new captain spot in YHM. Then you're required to take the YHM captain spot and no more bypass pay. During your bypass period you get paid the greater of existing Swoop captain wages or your current Westjet wage. There are pages on here detailing how a level 3 Westjet F/O makes more than a Swoop captain. Therefore anyone who bids the position who is level 3 Westjet F/O or higher doesn't receive any bypass pay at all since he's already making more.

As for the Encore guys i would be very surprised that Swoop bids aren't opened up to them at some point in the near future. Positions almost certainly will be offered to mainline, encore then OTS.

[tbaylx]

This wasn’t a win for swoop pilots.. go and read the interim order again it’s clear your here only until your fate is determined at a later date. You are redundant swoopsters never forget that as are we and that’s been proven time and time again. If you think the company will pay bypass pay to 1000 first officers to keep you in your seats you are sadly mistaken. The Company I am sure is banking on the fact no one will bid the 26 positions in yhm which they will. This equates to hundreds of thousands of dollars per pilot in bypass pay. You think they will keep you around for it? Your going to the right seat in three months and you guys know it. That part of the interim order including the words bypass pay sealed your fates right there. All a first officer has to do now is bid captain at swoop today and get a nice fat pay check in the years to come until all of you are gone out of those left seats.

Oh and btw the YEG base is all westjet Captains who I can’t wait for you guys to meet.

You may have budded in line to the party swoopsters but the bouncer is coming soon to move you back where you belong and now it’s legal where that’s probably gonna happen.

Thanks in advance for trying to be professional launching my airline in YHM. I’ll make sure that I’m professional when you are my first officer in six months.

Glad to hear it, we’ll be equally as professional doing your line indoc and line checks. Welcome to Swoop, it’s going to be a great place to work.

highly doubt any of you will be doing line indoc or line checks. Now that it’s operated under the same umbrella, our current line check and line Indic pilots can do it. I wonder who will be doing YOUR line check and line Indoc. Lol

It's a separate OC and Swoop requires their own training department. Any Westjet pilot coming over is going to require differences training on the SOP and a line check of some sort. I'm sure that some of the Westjet pilots coming over would make excellent training pilots and will be incorporated into the training department in the future, but they'll be Swoop training pilots not Westjet.

[FICU]

Why would Swoop operate under a different SOP? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Have you held a Captain position on the 737 previously tbaylx? If you haven't how would Swoop allow you to be a training pilot?

[tbaylx]

Why would Swoop operate under a different SOP? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Have you held a Captain position on the 737 previously tbaylx? If you haven't how would Swoop allow you to be a training pilot?

If you watch the Dec 2017 investors quarterly briefing they explain why they want separation from mainline and why it's a separate OC. There are some things in the Westjet SOP that are a legacy of -200 flying, there are differences in the opspecs. When Swoop started up they took the opportunity to clean up some of the more glaring issues with the SOP. There will be more changes to it in the future as well that will further differentiate it from Westjets. Eventually Westjet may clean theirs up as well and bring it inline with Swoop's. Either way it's not as simple as jumping into the seat and requires a differences course/briefing and a line indoc/check to transfer from mainline.

I never said either way if I am a training pilot or not and yes I've held a 737 & other 705 large jet captain positions previously.

[lostaviator]

Canadians pilots have some of the worst pay, benefits, vacations, duty and fatigue standards in the western world (not to say third world)

Isn't it time to look at the way we do things and try something different?

Don't tell me that alpa is trying to do something different. They are doing the same thing that has happened time and time again.

It's about time that the pilots here start to take a long hard look at themselves and realise that they are part of the problem.

I agree. Our willingness to undercut each other for work has had devastating consequences. Time and time again we have demonstrated our willingness to do things that may benefit us, at the expense of the greater good.

Individualism creates a competitive atmosphere which benefits only the employer. Individualism can be something as small as a handful of pilots undercutting a larger group or something larger where say ACPA undercuts ALPA. Or ALPA tries to undercut ACPA. It’s a one way street down hill. It’s simply doing what I want despite the consequences to the greater good.

Ineffectual collectivism, since AC pilots left the fold, has lead to individualism throughout our profession and has allowed this disastrous state of affairs.

Collectivism. Everyone under one umbrella. No competing with each other. No under cutting. Or at the very least, to the greatest extent possible.

It’s long past time for everyone to be ALPA. Time for common goals that respect each other, advance the profession for everyone in it and for those that follow.

ALPA is part of the problem. Its the seniority system that ties pilots to one particular airline and makes experience count for very little. A national seniority system where you can carry your seniority from one airline to another and change jobs without severe financial repercussions would force companies to compete for talent and raise wages.

Right, a national seniority list would work great for people who’s personal reputation leads them to being a scab to get work.

Not to mention, that isn’t how any industry works.