WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

[altiplano]

Is it true that Swoop pilots are being told they will slot into the WJ seniority list based on position?

Not DOH-based... position based.

FOs given a seniority number equal to the bottom of WJ FO list, and Captains given a seniority number equal to the bottom of the WJ Captain list?

[Canadianjetpilot]

Is it true that Swoop pilots are being told they will slot into the WJ seniority list based on position?

Not DOH-based... position based.

FOs given a seniority number equal to the bottom of WJ FO list, and Captains given a seniority number equal to the bottom of the WJ Captain list?

False.

Currently the fate of the Swoop pilots is still undetermined.

The feelings of the WJ/Encore pilot groups has been made 'extremely clear" to the mediator.

Anything discussed otherwise is pure speculation.

[Victory]

So will Swoop flying be done by Westjet pilots or not? Now I'm confused.
Did they really mean Swoop pilots will become Westjet pilots?

[KAG]

Swoop flying will now be done by westjet pilots. The questions are: what wawcon and what will happen to the swoop pilots. June 15th we will have those answers. Stay tuned for new atis message

[Noo]

Are you saying this is what you want to happen or this is what has already been negotiated? I only ask because they just put out a new job ad for OTS Swoop pilots.

[daedalusx]

Swoop job posting was an error... happens all the time when you deal with those hiring companies they delete/autorepost jobs. It's been fixed now.

[Rezy]

Like I said the swoop flying was always there (pre and post Alpa) but not at same wages and working conditions. Alpa didn’t accept that. Now it will be decided by someone else. So in my mind that’s not a “win” as you mentioned. Those remaining items on the list are only the most important things to the majority now decided by an arbitrator. well done? Debatable at best.

To clarify, if the ALPA negotiated working conditions are BETTER than the current working conditions, that is a win over the WJPA. By your standard, if it’s only a win if you get everything you ask for, than no one will ever win at negotiations- which is a viewpoint held by some. But it’s somewhat unfair to suggest that ALPA isn’t doing a good job when they have locked in things the WJPA never could. ALPA still doesn’t accept the possible B scale at Swoop but that is yet to be determined, and we will know more in a couple weeks.

[Demeter]

I’m not holding my breath! Should be interesting!

[Rezy]

I’m not holding my breath! Should be interesting!

Keep in mind that WJ won’t be able to lie or deceive the arbitrator like they did with the pilots/other employees and MEC.

[cloak]

Holy shit the Captain rates are equal to the RP positions at AC....

Really?! Please do tell which year RP, cause the first 4 years are under 80.

[B757FO]

Swoop job posting was an error... happens all the time when you deal with those hiring companies they delete/autorepost jobs. It's been fixed now.

Has also been taken down on company website. But im not sure since when but i did check it couple weeks ago.

[Demeter]

I’m not holding my breath! Should be interesting!

Keep in mind that WJ won’t be able to lie or deceive the arbitrator like they did with the pilots/other employees and MEC.

Don’t really care about that because our guys aren’t angels either.

[B757FO]

So will Swoop flying be done by Westjet pilots or not? Now I'm confused.
Did they really mean Swoop pilots will become Westjet pilots?

If they stay after arbitration the swoop pilots will be given a date of hire on Westjet seniority list of June 22nd. So yes they will be WestJet pilots if they stay. They operate a second o.c. Which has not been approved yet. Westjet Pilots currently will bid on to swoop positions and we could operate the launch on June 22nd without the current swoop pilots. We do not have a captain and first officer seniority list only one. It’s been confirmed we can launch without any of the current pilots at swoop. As has been said here by KAG June 15th is the dead line for arbitration decision on where the swoop pilots fall. Seniority is a given they go to bottom of list period and yes they would become part of Alpa at that point should they choose to stay. The big question is do they keep their current swoop positions. These are not Westjet mainline positions so please understand the difference here. If the swoop pilots get a ruling for arbitrator that the keep their swoop positions then when WestJet pilots bid on to swoop in July all the current swoopsters would be bumped down in seniority every time a Westjet pilot goes over there. The current swoop pilots will never see a left seat at mainline for 15+ years. They would have to bid according to their seniority on the master
List which will be at the bottom even below encore pilots.

Bottom line is June 15th is deadline to find out if the pilots at swoop will keep their jobs at swoop in both left and right seats. That’s the big one. We don’t need any of them to launch it anymore as we can launch it with our o.c. Either way there will be 150+ current mainline / encore pilots moving over to swoop starting in July and if swoop pilots keep there roles they will be bumped down on seniority ever bid for next 15 years. Again not life changing as nothing at Westjet is really seniority based anyways. But like I said June 15th is the day we find out if current swoop pilots keep their current positions at swoop or not or if they are given positions which their seniority could hold period. That’s the holy grail that 2000 current actual WestJet pilots want to learn on June 15. That actual chance swoop pilots are shown the door is proving less likely but not out of the question. But in my view the only acceptable outcome will be botl and holding positions which they can hold with their doh.

Gonna be some sleepless nights coming up from both sides.

[schnitzel2k3]

So will Swoop flying be done by Westjet pilots or not? Now I'm confused.
Did they really mean Swoop pilots will become Westjet pilots?

If they stay after arbitration the swoop pilots will be given a date of hire on Westjet seniority list of June 22nd. So yes they will be WestJet pilots if they stay. They operate a second o.c. Which has not been approved yet. Westjet Pilots currently will bid on to swoop positions and we could operate the launch on June 22nd without the current swoop pilots. We do not have a captain and first officer seniority list only one. It’s been confirmed we can launch without any of the current pilots at swoop. As has been said here by KAG June 15th is the dead line for arbitration decision on where the swoop pilots fall. Seniority is a given they go to bottom of list period and yes they would become part of Alpa at that point should they choose to stay. The big question is do they keep their current swoop positions. These are not Westjet mainline positions so please understand the difference here. If the swoop pilots get a ruling for arbitrator that the keep their swoop positions then when WestJet pilots bid on to swoop in July all the current swoopsters would be bumped down in seniority every time a Westjet pilot goes over there. The current swoop pilots will never see a left seat at mainline for 15+ years. They would have to bid according to their seniority on the master
List which will be at the bottom even below encore pilots.

Bottom line is June 15th is deadline to find out if the pilots at swoop will keep their jobs at swoop in both left and right seats. That’s the big one. We don’t need any of them to launch it anymore as we can launch it with our o.c. Either way there will be 150+ current mainline / encore pilots moving over to swoop starting in July and if swoop pilots keep there roles they will be bumped down on seniority ever bid for next 15 years. Again not life changing as nothing at Westjet is really seniority based anyways. But like I said June 15th is the day we find out if current swoop pilots keep their current positions at swoop or not or if they are given positions which their seniority could hold period. That’s the holy grail that 2000 current actual WestJet pilots want to learn on June 15. That actual chance swoop pilots are shown the door is proving less likely but not out of the question. But in my view the only acceptable outcome will be botl and holding positions which they can hold with their doh.

Gonna be some sleepless nights coming up from both sides.

Thank you for the update 757 to the casual observers.

S.

[LegoMan]

Swoop guys finishing their course this week are not going anywhere. Management has already told them they are staying. Apparently they got the go ahead from their lawyers to keep the current pilots hired. They will most likely have to join the union.

[B757FO]

Swoop guys finishing their course this week are not going anywhere. Management has already told them they are staying. Apparently they got the go ahead from their lawyers to keep the current pilots hired. They will most likely have to join the union.

I agree most likely they will stay but has nothing to do with their lawyers. This is out of all of our hands now anyways. Lawyers or not. They may stay hired at swoop but in the end may be doing another course maybe not. June 15th. Anything else being promised is just not true. That’s from the arbitration coming.

They may very well lose their left seats also. We shall see. Again lawyers have no say in this either side.

I don’t think you understand Legoman that we Westjet pilots already have won the flying for swoop that part is done. So management is lying to them to make false promises like that. Swoop will have no choice but to join Alpa at the bottom of our list. That’s been decided and agreed upon already.

[altiplano]

Holy shit the Captain rates are equal to the RP positions at AC....

Really?! Please do tell which year RP, cause the first 4 years are under 80.

RPs not on flat pay make more than Swoop Captains.

Current RP rates after 4 are roughly $105-130/hr + about $7 or $8/hr overseas premium. Grandfathered RPs, either position or formula, make more than that.

[LegoMan]

Swoop guys finishing their course this week are not going anywhere. Management has already told them they are staying. Apparently they got the go ahead from their lawyers to keep the current pilots hired. They will most likely have to join the union.

I agree most likely they will stay but has nothing to do with their lawyers. This is out of all of our hands now anyways. Lawyers or not. They may stay hired at swoop but in the end may be doing another course maybe not. June 15th. Anything else being promised is just not true. That’s from the arbitration coming.

They may very well lose their left seats also. We shall see. Again lawyers have no say in this either side.

I don’t think you understand Legoman that we Westjet pilots already have won the flying for swoop that part is done. So management is lying to them to make false promises like that. Swoop will have no choice but to join Alpa at the bottom of our list. That’s been decided and agreed upon already.

I'd expect that the swoop guys will end up on the bottom and left seat guys will have to go right seat. I also think the left seat guys will just leave with a mint 737 type rating and plenty of jet time under their belt already.

[Oldcommercialpilot]

The real question is: why would any of the current Swoop pilots want to stay now? There are only a handful of them and you know that the list of names is already widely circulating amongst the 1500+ pilots at WestJet & Encore. These pilots will not be able to remain anonymous and that most certainly will not make for a very enjoyable or rewarding work environment. Would anyone really want to make a career out of a job where every single co-worker despises you and looks at you with disdain? This is certainly not something that will simply blow over after a few months.

Make no mistake: WJ is a big company, but it is not so big that these guys will be able to fade into obscurity - ever. Not even in the slightest. There is significant bitterness over this situation and these names will be posted all over the pilot list and talked about in internal conversations for years to come.

[GRK2]

New 737 endorsement? If I recall it's not complete without Line Training. So if it's just a sim ride, it's not worth much. Feel free to correct me if my info is out of date.

Cheers,

GRK