Quarterly loss

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FenceSitter
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Quarterly loss

Post by FenceSitter »

As reporeted at the CBC....

WestJet Airlines Ltd. reported a rare loss of $20.8 million in the second quarter as it was beset by a labour dispute with its pilots, higher fuel prices and increased competition.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.4768051

It's a labour dispute that caused this loss? The labour dispute was Clive's fault and that of the BOD/execs.
How much did WJ legal cost for the quarter?
How much did they have top pay out execs who left hastily?
How much cake was wasted in the Crystal palace?

All of that contributed to the loss...and ultimately that can be attributed to poor decisions made at the highest levels. Recovery is likely. Soon though there will be black and white compensation and work-related rules that can not be bent to minimize cost and expense. Is the beginning of a new chapter or a harbinger of reality.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by WeedPro2000 »

The glue you’re sniffing, is it available over the counter?
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Dizzy D
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by Dizzy D »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:43 am The glue you’re sniffing, is it available over the counter?
How about the coolaid you drink? Can I get it from superstore or is it only available at the ivory tower?
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lostaviator
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by lostaviator »

- CASM (excluding fuel) up 4.3%
- Started a new airline with the start up costs “baked in”
- announced yet another aircraft configuration when we weren’t even done the current reconfig. Actually, some planes are 2-3 versions behind.
- Executive parting gifts.
- Completly unnecessary labour disruptions caused by a disgruntled board member losing their grasp on things.
- Too many seats leading to seats sold at a loss just to fill planes. (Our load factor was higher).

We needed this wake-up call. The low cost of oil and relatively cheap workforce has led to some overly liberal spending in some areas. The shit we throw at walls in hopes of sticking is becoming less sticky.
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aerobod
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by aerobod »

Bottom line effect on booking revenue of the threat of industrial action made at the beginning of May and remaining uncertain to the end of May is approximately $37m. This is based on the following information from the quarterly report:
Advanced booking period: 55 days
RPM YOY growth: 6.2%
Revenue YOY growth: 2.8%
Fuel cost increase YOY: $77m
Net earnings (loss): ($21m)
Quarterly revenue: $1,087m

Likely revenue loss due to revenue not tracking RPM growth = 3.4% / $37m
Likely cost base would stay the same due to no change in operations for the quarter, so profit (earnings) would have likely been about $16m without the threat of industrial action and $93m without fuel price increases or the industrial action threat, assuming the same RASM YOY.

Basically the minimum amount is correlated to revenue growth matching RPM growth, which is normally the case, so there is aa unexpected 3.4% revenue gap, yet all operating costs were still in effect due to the threat existing less than 55 days before the end of the quarter, so it is unlikely to have had any noticeable effect on seats filled in Q2, that will echo into Q3. Fuel price increases will actually have pushed the projected revenue higher, but within guest pricing elasticity, so the effect of the industrial action threat will be underestimated due to that. The threat effect may also extend into the 3rd quarter results a little, as the forward booking for the beginning of July is within the 55 day period from when the uncertainty was resolved.

As startup costs for Swoop, Link, cabin reconfig, Business class, ovens on 737 and 787 were already factored into guidance and departmental budgets, there was no unexpected effect on profitability (the CASM increase in guidance from last year due to these items was actually higher than posted for the quarter, so overall costs other than fuel was lower than expected).
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Last edited by aerobod on Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
WeedPro2000
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by WeedPro2000 »

And you see no connection between the first quarterly loss in 50 quarters and the industrial action threat from ALPA? You’d have to be on glue.

I read your union’s latest MEC update the other day. Pro tip: if they are serious about mending fences with the company, their first step should be a wholesale cleaning of the current leadership. I’d name names, but I might violate the company’s RITW policy, so I won’t.

That said, the reality is that after today’s results, the company will not soon warm to the organization that caused this loss.

And given the complete ineffectiveness of ALPA’s tenure at WJ, I can only trust that discontent is growing in the pilot ranks with ALPA.

But to take your mind off the terrible predicament WJ pilots find themselves in, have a look at this.

Alright you ALPA fanboys, I’m off to continue climbing.

Johnny
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av8r374
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by av8r374 »

Aerobod, that's a little flawed because it assumes that revenue not tracking RPM growth is purely attributed to the threat of industrial action. It fails to account for the fact that RPM growth was probably excessive- too much capacity at aggressively unprofitable prices. Not saying that industrial action had zero effect.

The discounted ticket prices to recover lost bookings from the threat of action probably put a big dent in things and will likely see some spillover into Q3.
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aerobod
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by aerobod »

av8r374 wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:39 am Aerobod, that's a little flawed because it assumes that revenue not tracking RPM growth is purely attributed to the threat of industrial action. It fails to account for the fact that RPM growth was probably excessive- too much capacity at aggressively unprofitable prices. Not saying that industrial action had zero effect.

The discounted ticket prices to recover lost bookings from the threat of action probably put a big dent in things and will likely see some spillover into Q3.
That is an offset in the opposite direction (as I mentioned about in the guest pricing elasticity), but fuel pulls it the other way. The fact that load factors are still very strong leads to some elasticity in pricing. I think 3.4% revenue hit due to the industrial action threat is probably on the low side. If you go back through the previous quarterly reports in general, RPM and revenue growth track fairly well when fuel price effects have been removed, this is due to the fact that the Revenue team has generally been on the ball in planning and hitting targets for revenue with a decent margin and incorporating external demand and economic effects, this can be shown in the very consistent growth and profitability over the years, compared with significantly greater variability at most other airlines.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by WeedPro2000 »

So let me get this straight: the brain trust that is the WJ ALPA MEC threatens a strike which in turn directly more or less results in the loss of the ability to strike, and arbitration being forced on them, and now we have a quarterly loss directly attributable to the strike threat and as a result we have a potential reduced capacity looming with whatever that means for pilot base crewing and employment and finally we have an arbitrator who will be decidedly sympathetic to the company's financial plight when choosing between competing proposals.

Well played lol!

Dudes and dudettes, for your own well being, scour that constitution of yours and find what it takes to rid yourself of your MEC. Although I'm pleased that amidst all this, your Vice Chair is spending time on the Air Canada ACPA/ALPA file. That sounds like an appropriate thing to be spending time on.

What a bunch lol!

John Swallow (the jumping one)
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Transonic
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by Transonic »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:23 am And you see no connection between the first quarterly loss in 50 quarters and the industrial action threat from ALPA? You’d have to be on glue.

I read your union’s latest MEC update the other day. Pro tip: if they are serious about mending fences with the company, their first step should be a wholesale cleaning of the current leadership. I’d name names, but I might violate the company’s RITW policy, so I won’t.

That said, the reality is that after today’s results, the company will not soon warm to the organization that caused this loss.

And given the complete ineffectiveness of ALPA’s tenure at WJ, I can only trust that discontent is growing in the pilot ranks with ALPA.

But to take your mind off the terrible predicament WJ pilots find themselves in, have a look at this.

Alright you ALPA fanboys, I’m off to continue climbing.

Johnny
If a drunken teenager corners a raccoon and gets bitten, who is to blame?

Obviously you would argue the raccoon is at fault.
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Transonic
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by Transonic »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:35 pm So let me get this straight: the brain trust that is the WJ ALPA MEC threatens a strike which in turn directly more or less results in the loss of the ability to strike, and arbitration being forced on them, and now we have a quarterly loss directly attributable to the strike threat and as a result we have a potential reduced capacity looming with whatever that means for pilot base crewing and employment and finally we have an arbitrator who will be decidedly sympathetic to the company's financial plight when choosing between competing proposals.

Well played lol!

Dudes and dudettes, for your own well being, scour that constitution of yours and find what it takes to rid yourself of your MEC. Although I'm pleased that amidst all this, your Vice Chair is spending time on the Air Canada ACPA/ALPA file. That sounds like an appropriate thing to be spending time on.

What a bunch lol!

John Swallow (the jumping one)
Any reduction in ASM's is solely attributed to regaining pricing power to recoup rising fuel costs.

Air Canada is doing it and so is Delta.
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Bede
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by Bede »

Weedpro,

Airlines all over N. America deal with ALPA renegotiating contracts regularly. Yet WJ is the only one with threats of lockouts, political mediation, etc. So if ALPA and every other airline can avoid industrial action, why can't WJ?
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lostaviator
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by lostaviator »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:35 pm Although I'm pleased that amidst all this, your Vice Chair is spending time on the Air Canada ACPA/ALPA file. That sounds like an appropriate thing to be spending time on.

John Swallow (the jumping one)
1. I think it’s very appropriate. National unity* amongst pilots will serve a great purpose going forward. (*see dictionary.com to learn what that word means)

2. What I’m more concerned about is why he has that time... oh wait, right. The company only showed up to 20% of the negotiation sessions.

3. The threat of the strike/lockout may have cost us our profit, but let’s not forget how we got to that point. Swoop was designed to take our planes and our jobs. BUT, you’ve already said you don’t care about anyone you work with so I don’t even know why we are having these conversations anymore. 9% of pilots not supporting their peers is pretty small, but I’m willing to bet you’re in league of your own when it comes to your views on not caring about the other guy sitting next to you.
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Mach1
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by Mach1 »

Roughly, a twenty one million loss. Roughly half of that went to the last CEO on departure. More being dispensed as a growing line of executive's walk past the cash machine on their way through the revolving door. But I notice no one ever mentions that cost to the company. I guess executive payouts don't come out of the budget or show up on the balance sheet at any time.

However, the press is busy with a propaganda war against the employees and I know I can trust all of these reporters to put in some work and not just cut and paste the company PR department release and then hit the "publish" button without asking any questions, looking at any numbers or doing any critical thinking. Behaviour like that would be just plain lazy.

Since there has been no material change to wages or working conditions at the company yet (executive payouts exempted), it is a difficult tale to believe that it is all labour's fault. Even the Ed emails show that this is an issue with too many seats in Canada for both airlines. The numbers themselves talk about fuel being the biggest cost issue, runaway initiatives and cost downloading from Swoop to WestJet while also launching a wide body fleet. All things questioned by analysts quite recently. But no... it's a non-existent labour cost increase and not a huge legal bill resulting from choosing to fight with the employees rather than negotiate.

I haven't seen this much propaganda since the cold war ended. But now the cold war is back on again, I guess the company is taking advice from Putin's big book of war... an easy thing to do now the press is incapable or unwilling to investigate and fact check prior to publishing.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by HansDietrich »

Mach1 wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:16 pmHowever, the press is busy with a propaganda war against the employees and I know I can trust all of these reporters to put in some work and not just cut and paste the company PR department...
"Journalistic Integrity", if it ever existed has long been gone. The ones that still have a "back bone" have to fight an upstream battle with their editors and bosses. Today's media is about "shock value", which sells the ads. Nothing more, nothing less. Oh yes, serving political interests; that's a big one...
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by WeedPro2000 »

I guess it doesn’t get any clearer:

”This second quarter loss can be primarily attributed to the impact of the threat of industrial action, which caused tens of millions of dollars in book-aways and cancelations. Given that the booking curve is primarily concentrated between 1 week and 6 months out, this impact has been felt both immediately and midterm.”
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George Taylor
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by George Taylor »

Sounds like this came from an EdTalks.
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Diadem
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by Diadem »

So the union should have rolled over and accepted whatever management offered them in order to preserve the financial stability of the company, John? No doubt you would have criticized them for not protecting the pilots if they had done that; damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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altiplano
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by altiplano »

Remember who writes it though...

Do you think they are going to blame themselves?
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Anon1234
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Re: Quarterly loss

Post by Anon1234 »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:01 am I guess it doesn’t get any clearer:

”This second quarter loss can be primarily attributed to the impact of the threat of industrial action, which caused tens of millions of dollars in book-aways and cancelations. Given that the booking curve is primarily concentrated between 1 week and 6 months out, this impact has been felt both immediately and midterm.”
How drunk on WestJet Kool-aid are you?

WestJet made profits quarter after quarter on the backs of its overworked/underpaid employees. The employees organized in order to better their position. WestJet fights them tooth and nail rather than negotiate (Greedy much?). This affects WestJet's ability to turn a profit and they go crying foul that it's all labours fault? What is this a soccer match?

Reading your constant defense of WestJet management is like watching the American News Circuit. You sit there shaking your head wondering, "How can people be so blind / defensive when it is obvious that something is negatively affecting them?"

I was going to say, "If WestJet asked you to jump off a bridge for them; would you do it?" But you already do that all by yourself :lol:
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