SWOOP - A New Hires Future

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SwoopStar
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SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by SwoopStar » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:56 am

To the new hires, welcome to Swoop. Your new home. Below are the conditions you will be working for if selected for employment by Swoop.

As a background, Swoop has 6 aircraft with 70ish pilots and intends to grow to 10 aircraft by years’ end. The wages and working conditions were subjected to a mediated/arbitrated settlement process which lasted 6 months. The arbitrator selected the company’s proposal and devastated those at Swoop.

Here are the highlights of the LOU.

SCOPE

30 aircraft.

PAY

FO Pay CA Pay
Step 1 56.39 104.61
Step 2 70.32 120.70
Step 3 77.35 132.77

VARIABLE COMPENSATION
10% ESP. (vs 20% mainline)
Profit share.
NO Stock options. (~$5500)

SCHEDULING

18 days worked in 30 day month.
19 days worked in 31 day month.
Min. Monthly Guarantee 75hrs.
95-90hr blocking window.
OT after 90hrs.
10 sick days.
Min duty period credit of 4hrs.
Mixed blocks of pairings and reserve.
AIRPORT RESERVE!
25% redeye returns, including YHM-LAS-YHM and YHM-YXX-YHM.
Not commutable, 95% turns by summer.
GREY DAYS!- No OT on days off other than awarded GDOs. Swoop can assign flying on days off. Only awarded GDOs are protected. (10 per month)

VACATION

Earn and burn – no vacation for the first year. Canada Labour Code minimum.
STAT holidays paid out.

FREEZE

24 MONTH FREEZE at Swoop.

CONCLUSION

Good luck.
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Last edited by SwoopStar on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:02 am, edited 5 times in total.

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IKEA_Monkey
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by IKEA_Monkey » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:51 pm

I for one am quite surprised the arbitrator leaned so far in the company's direction. I didn't think it would all be roses but seriously, AIRPORT RESERVE? lol what a joke! Then there's that garbage schedule and would you look at those pay rates, holy shit!!

Four year flat pay at AC doesn't look so bad anymore! Not to mention you stand a good chance to pick your equipment and base right out of the gate. A guy coming out of flat pay to upgrade on the 737 will be making $186/hour ($212 at night), never mind an early upgrade or all the other incentives on offer. Or how about Sunwing and their "bottom of the list" search for Captains. Or a wide-body upgrade at Transat?

Will you get YOS when you're hired into Swoop? Is the upgrade still 8 years?! What about that one list? How is that going to pan out?! Not looking good folks!

AC is beyond a doubt THE premier career choice and will be for some time. And if Jazz gets that flow through, why even bother with Encore?! Nothing but a poorly paid Porter, spun out in the wilderness.

The worst part about this contract is that it's 4 years! For an initial arbitrated contract that's quite long. Try and imagine what the landscape will look like in that time. But before you do, think back to where we were 4 years ago. When 5000 hours was the bare minimum to get noticed at WJA and 1000 MPIC was needed to get in the door at Encore. When all sorts of pilots were turned away because "they didn't interview well" or didn't have the all coveted internal references. Today, it's bottom of the barrel hiring! Where everyone with a pulse is encouraged to apply! Where do you think this will lead as the years go by and the better options are pretty much everywhere else other than WJA? They won't be attracting top talent that's for sure! And for everyone else with their 10-20% ESP? Do you really want your income tied up with a company short changing it's employees and their experience? Never-mind the continued labour unrest and it's effect on the bottom line... There's a real, tangible risk in letting 'anyone' fly a Q400 or 737. Colgan resulted in some pretty dramatic changes to aviation in the US, hard to believe we're immune from those risks here in Canada but that's exactly where were headed.

What a mess...
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by jjj » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:17 pm

Don't forget - you don't have to fly with that guy who actually thought Swoop was a new airline entity all to itself. He left for another gig. That's gotta be worth something.

JJJ
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SwoopStar
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by SwoopStar » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:58 pm

I have to reiterate the 24 month freeze.

If you are hired this year with the only option of Swoop, you will be frozen for 24 months. If Swoops growth slows, and if subsequent bids show availability at mainline, they will go to new hires junior to you. One would hope that when the freeze is done, the music is still going. Which it may not be in 2021; we are overdue for a recession.

The conditions are so poor at Swoop that WestJet wants to trap you there. Think about that.
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Last edited by SwoopStar on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

digits_
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by digits_ » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:41 pm

SwoopStar wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:58 pm
Further, any new hire will not know what positions are available upon the employment offer. You may very well find out in ground school that you're off to Swoop.
Time to take a leave of abscence at your current employer, apply, get hired, and wait till ground school to determine if you actually want to take the job :smt040

After you've lied to the recruiter that you would be willing to work for any company at any base on any type. :twisted:
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by sstaurus » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:18 am

SwoopStar wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:58 pm


Further, any new hire will not know what positions are available upon the employment offer. You may very well find out in ground school that you're off to Swoop.
I can’t believe that’s how they’re hiring. The old bait and switch? The trap is set indeed. Similar to when Encore first started...
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by eyebrow737 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:17 am

jjj wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:17 pm
Don't forget - you don't have to fly with that guy who actually thought Swoop was a new airline entity all to itself. He left for another gig. That's gotta be worth something.

JJJ
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by flyinhigh » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:46 am

Swoop is a big ol piece of shit, no doubt about it and I hope it burns to the ground. With that LOU, it probably will do just that.

As for the freeze.

AC has a freeze. If you pull 767 FO in initial and have a shitty schedule you cannot just bid off to the 320. This is normal and not just at WestJet.
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by SwoopStar » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:01 pm

flyinhigh wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:46 am
Swoop is a big ol piece of shit, no doubt about it and I hope it burns to the ground. With that LOU, it probably will do just that.

As for the freeze.

AC has a freeze. If you pull 767 FO in initial and have a shitty schedule you cannot just bid off to the 320. This is normal and not just at WestJet.
This is different. This is a 737 FO to 737 FO freeze. Your example involves a new type rating where the freeze saves training costs. Here, the freeze is for retention.
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Last edited by SwoopStar on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by jpilot77 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:03 pm

You can if you’re changing bases.
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by SwoopStar » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:04 pm

jpilot77 wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:03 pm
You can if you’re changing bases.
Only Swoop bases.
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Last edited by SwoopStar on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by co-joe » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:08 pm

What does airport Reserve mean?
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by C-GGGQ » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:35 pm

Sounds like "sitting in the crew room" no matter if you're scheduled or not. :smt102 :smt102 but that's a total guess
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by Demeter » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:05 pm

There is no airport reserve.
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by jpilot77 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:25 pm

I was referring to flyinhigh’s coment about the new hire freeze at AC.
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by flyinhigh » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:20 pm

Ok your right,

However, if you bid to rouge 320 you are frozen to the 320 at rouge with no chance to bid 320 mainline.

Again, Swoop is absolute shit. I don’t blame you for wanting to get out. But accepting a job at very subpar conditions that you were well aware of,in the hopes/attempt to get ahead and than to come and complain about it. Sorry but no sympathy from this guy.
SwoopStar wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:01 pm
flyinhigh wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:46 am
Swoop is a big ol piece of shit, no doubt about it and I hope it burns to the ground. With that LOU, it probably will do just that.

As for the freeze.

AC has a freeze. If you pull 767 FO in initial and have a shitty schedule you cannot just bid off to the 320. This is normal and not just at WestJet.
This is different. This is a 737 FO to 737 FO freeze. Your example involves a new type rating where the freeze saves training costs. Here, the freeze is to shackle you. Why? The conditions are so atrocious that Swoop wants to bait you then trap you.
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:48 pm

I'm thinking about applying just for the satisfaction of declining the offer.
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by SwoopStar » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:57 pm

Demeter wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:05 pm
There is no airport reserve.
Unfortunately it is true, Demeter.

Section 16 of the LOU.

16.1 " Pilots assigned a mixed line monthly schedule will receive four (4) credit hours per day of reserve or airport stand by reserve, if not utilized."
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by SwoopStar » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:10 pm

flyinhigh wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:20 pm
Ok your right,

However, if you bid to rouge 320 you are frozen to the 320 at rouge with no chance to bid 320 mainline.

Again, Swoop is absolute shit. I don’t blame you for wanting to get out. But accepting a job at very subpar conditions that you were well aware of,in the hopes/attempt to get ahead and than to come and complain about it. Sorry but no sympathy from this guy.
SwoopStar wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:01 pm
flyinhigh wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:46 am
Swoop is a big ol piece of shit, no doubt about it and I hope it burns to the ground. With that LOU, it probably will do just that.

As for the freeze.

AC has a freeze. If you pull 767 FO in initial and have a shitty schedule you cannot just bid off to the 320. This is normal and not just at WestJet.
This is different. This is a 737 FO to 737 FO freeze. Your example involves a new type rating where the freeze saves training costs. Here, the freeze is to shackle you. Why? The conditions are so atrocious that Swoop wants to bait you then trap you.
Hmm, perhaps you misread my original post.

There are 100+ new hires this year at WestJet and no one knows what is happening at Swoop. Swoop alone will grow by 4 aircraft requiring 20-30 FOs.

The 24 month freeze does not apply to those presently at Swoop. Many of those have chosen to bid out including Swoop Captains back to mainline FO positions.

*Edited to reflect DaveP's comment.
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Last edited by SwoopStar on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by Airbrake » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:37 pm

[/quote]

Hmm, perhaps you misread my original post. It serves to educate those applying/have applied to WestJet.

There are 100+ new hires this year at WestJet and no one knows what is happening at Swoop. Swoop alone will grow by 4 aircraft requiring 20-30 FOs.

The 24 month freeze does not apply to those presently at Swoop. Many of those have chosen to bid out including Swoop Captains back to mainline FO positions.

I would say if you're hired by WestJet, there is a 50% chance you'll draw Swoop. And you're frozen for 2 years.

If you're applying to WestJet, you're really applying to Swoop. That is the truth.
[/quote]

There were a number of captains that bid back from Swoop to mainline (I’d guess almost all, but not certain of that). Only 3 were approved.
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by digits_ » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:46 pm

Airbrake wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:37 pm

There were a number of captains that bid back from Swoop to mainline (I’d guess almost all, but not certain of that). Only 3 were approved.
Due to their seniority, or were there other dark forces in play?
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by DaveP » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:55 pm

SwoopStar wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:10 pm
flyinhigh wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:20 pm
Ok your right,

However, if you bid to rouge 320 you are frozen to the 320 at rouge with no chance to bid 320 mainline.

Again, Swoop is absolute shit. I don’t blame you for wanting to get out. But accepting a job at very subpar conditions that you were well aware of,in the hopes/attempt to get ahead and than to come and complain about it. Sorry but no sympathy from this guy.
SwoopStar wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:01 pm


This is different. This is a 737 FO to 737 FO freeze. Your example involves a new type rating where the freeze saves training costs. Here, the freeze is to shackle you. Why? The conditions are so atrocious that Swoop wants to bait you then trap you.
Hmm, perhaps you misread my original post. It serves to educate those applying/have applied to WestJet.

There are 100+ new hires this year at WestJet and no one knows what is happening at Swoop. Swoop alone will grow by 4 aircraft requiring 20-30 FOs.

The 24 month freeze does not apply to those presently at Swoop. Many of those have chosen to bid out including Swoop Captains back to mainline FO positions.

I would say if you're hired by WestJet, there is a 50% chance you'll draw Swoop. And you're frozen for 2 years.

If you're applying to WestJet, you're really applying to Swoop. That is the truth.
Hi,
The current 737 posting is for both Swoop and the WestJet 737. When the candidates come in - we simply ask them what they want. Some only want WJ, some will take either and contrary to most opinions - some want swoop because they live close to YHM or YEG.

The swoop internal bid will be coming out in the next few days for both YEG and YHM (to both WestJet and Encore). Then any unfilled positions will be from off the street (we will be very clear on these offers). As for WJ, we are still planning to bring on 100 plus this year at WestJet. As published in our quarterly bid that just closed, 28 upgrades to Yyz, a few base transfers on this bid along with 10 787 and 12 67 captain spots along with 48 newhire WJ 737 spots. Trip and duty rigs, New Duty rules and reserve along with widebody growth will be the key to future hiring and upgrading. Swoop will be hiring for the next plane that comes in the spring.

I’m not sure where a few got the idea that you are hired at the WestJet group - then assigned your position when you are on property. That’s simply not the case. You are offered your position and company prior to accepting the position.

The amended and recently clarified Swoop Lou (as per Kaplan) includes years of service for time served at swoop when you upgrade at WJ (are now counted) It’s true there is no airport reserve either, however they are reviewing some language around call out. Kaplan also removed a day of work (I think the max is 18 now). He also recently clarified the new widebody rates for WJ.

Lots going on for sure!
Dave
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by skybaron » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:57 am

Sounds like a big mess. No doubt WJ is experiencing an exodus of pilots.

I wonder, what would it take for the WJ Group to pull an extraordinary, positive move - and actually go beyond Kaplan’s award to say that ALL people under the hocus pocus of a corporate umbrella will actually receive the same WAWCON? One that could set a higher standard.
One that supposedly takes care of their employees and not sewers them at every corner.

Oh wait, this is aviation, and WJ is behaving like it’s a recession.

Continue on with the mass exodus, and ultra disgruntled employee group.

Big Red, for one, welcomes your professionalism.
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by tbaylx » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:54 am

jjj wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:17 pm
Don't forget - you don't have to fly with that guy who actually thought Swoop was a new airline entity all to itself. He left for another gig. That's gotta be worth something.

JJJ
Love what you guys have done with the place since we left.
I’m sure it’s much a much better working environment there with all the happy WestJet transfers than it ever was with the evil OTS hires. Thank god you got those bottom feeding guys gone so you could lock in those same conditions for 4 years for your own pilots. God knows what might have happened if they’d been allowed to stay and all you focused on was scope and capping them at 10 or 20 aircraft. They might have even tried to negotiate Sunwing wage steps and their own contract in a few months without ALPAs help! Can you imagine what a disaster that might have been!!?
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Re: SWOOP - A New Hires Future

Post by skybaron » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:43 pm

:up:

Vindicated.

Let’s be clear, while OTS didn’t help matters, it is in fact the COMPANY that started this disaster, and it’s the shareholders and BOD getting the rewards. They just pegged the pilot group against each other knowing full well the outcome. Teal pawns.
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