Swoop WestJet Captain Bid/Late Schedules?

[DTO1]

Deleted

[KAG]

Not sure about skeds but I've heard of a swoop bid and it's open to us.

[flyinhigh]

Swoop Captain bid is open to Encore Pilots as well now.

Obviously there is minimums and 500 hrs 737 is one of them.

Absolutely shocked (enter sarcasm) that the company can’t get 44 FOs to take upgrades on that stunning LOU.

[tbaylx]

Swoop Captain bid is open to Encore Pilots as well now.

Obviously there is minimums and 500 hrs 737 is one of them.

Absolutely shocked (enter sarcasm) that the company can’t get 44 FOs to take upgrades on that stunning LOU.

But it's Westjet flying? Are you suggesting that now that you've spent all that effort and negotiating capital to secure the flying, you don't want it after all and it'll go OTS again?

[flyinhigh]

But it's Westjet flying? Are you suggesting that now that you've spent all that effort and negotiating capital to secure the flying, you don't want it after all and it'll go OTS again?

Nope not at all, my understanding is they can’t get people to sell their souls and screw over their counter parts by taking shitty jobs any more either. I.e, they can’t get bottom of the barrel people period.

Should have stuck around, you would have been quite happy.

[tbaylx]

But it's Westjet flying? Are you suggesting that now that you've spent all that effort and negotiating capital to secure the flying, you don't want it after all and it'll go OTS again?

Nope not at all, my understanding is they can’t get people to sell their souls and screw over their counter parts by taking shitty jobs any more either. I.e, they can’t get bottom of the barrel people period.

Should have stuck around, you would have been quite happy.

I think most of us were happy, probably still would have been had we stayed. What you see as a shitty job, we saw as a good start with potential. While Westjet pilots wouldn't demean themselves working for SWG wages plenty of people feel that's reasonable pay for a start up.

[FL410AV8R]

While Westjet pilots wouldn't demean themselves working for SWG wages plenty of people feel that's reasonable pay for a start up.

Swoop is NOT a start-up and never was a start-up. It is the attempted union busting arm of a multi-billion dollar airline.

The company got everything they asked for in the arbitration when it came to Swoop working conditions and now they have to deal with the reality of trying to attract pilots to Swoop for such crappy conditions. There were 6 applicants for 22 Swoop F/O positions earlier this month. Sure some will apply for the captain spots, but I really believe there are not 44 or more, 5000 hour, 500hour jet pilots out there willing to work for 60c on the dollar.

[jjj]

Don’t even bother arguing with Tbalyx.

He has yet to put a concise argument forward since last summer.

Every thing he’s ever stated about Swoop has been completely shot down.

Move along.

JJJ

[CaptainHaddock]

Seeing as the working conditions are worse than Encore, the pay is pathetic, grey days (want to work on your day off for straight time pay). Swoop is not a start up, it’s a very poorly played shell game, WestJet wants to run 6 cent CASM, Westjet has a billion in the bank and owns outright 70 or so of their aircraft (the ones at Swoop included). Whenever anything important is required at Swoop it is given it, when it is convenient to play the poor start up (FA,Pilots) they do. I would recommend anybody stay away if you like your health and family, it is not a good place to work at all. Even if go just want to parachute in for 500 hours PIC it’ll be 6-9 months of misery.straight up goods


Tbaylx. “we saw as a good start with potential. ” you must have worked for a lot of crappy companies prior, Bearskin Airlines honestly had better working conditions then Swoop. Way to shoot for the moon. You are most likely better off at a Flair for WAWCON at this point.

[flyinhigh]

Actually I think EVAS has better WAWCON and I didn't think anyone could be worse than them

Tbaylx. “we saw as a good start with potential. ” you must have worked for a lot of crappy companies prior, Bearskin Airlines honestly had better working conditions then Swoop. Way to shoot for the moon. You are most likely better off at a Flair for WAWCON at this point.

[DTO1]

Deleted

[cloak]

DTO1:

Contrary to my usual practice, I must call you on your derisive comments and ask what is your contribution? It's clear that you don't work for WestJet and just like stirring the pot but what benefit is there in such abusive and bullying approach other than degrading yourself? At what point do "you" stop and look in the mirror? It's a big world out there! For your own health and the health of others that have to listen to this belly-aching and bullying, please find a good hobby! Life is too short to be spent so miserably!!

[DTO1]

Cloak:

I do not work there but that does not mean I’m unable stand together with our fellow members and call out anyone devaluing our industry. You should as well.

[cloak]

Ok young ace! Tell me where you work so I can list the ways in which your comrades have devalued "your" industry over the years!!

[KAG]

But it's Westjet flying? Are you suggesting that now that you've spent all that effort and negotiating capital to secure the flying, you don't want it after all and it'll go OTS again?

Nope not at all, my understanding is they can’t get people to sell their souls and screw over their counter parts by taking shitty jobs any more either. I.e, they can’t get bottom of the barrel people period.

Should have stuck around, you would have been quite happy.

I think most of us were happy, probably still would have been had we stayed. What you see as a shitty job, we saw as a good start with potential. While Westjet pilots wouldn't demean themselves working for SWG wages plenty of people feel that's reasonable pay for a start up.

You're correct, most westjet pilots wouldn't work for those wages, on that we agree. Those that went over pre contract did so under the hope the wawcon would drastically improve, which it didn't. I think swoop is going to have a very hard time getting quality applicants or itll become a revolving door unless it amends the wawcon.

As for swoop offering "reasonable" pay for a startup, heres somthing to consider, I made more money 14 years ago flying a king air. And if you take swoop wages and apply inflation, its damn near the same starting wages at WJ in the mid 90s without the potential stock windfall.
The days of kicking over a rock and qualified pilots scurry out are over, we are in increasingly short supply and as such we are in position to demand better conditions, somthing most here would agree.
So I ask those like yourself who saw an opportunity for a left seat at grossly undervalued pay to please stop and consider the downside. While I understand putting food on the table and providing for your family, there are other better options.
That said I truly do believe things at swoop will improve, sooner then this contract expires. Then again I never thought the current wawcon would get approved in arbitration. Time will tell.

[Fanblade]

Kag,

I really question the veracity of the claim that swoop was a startup. It didn’t start from scratch. It took over well established routes with a long history of marketing and sales. Much like Rouge, Swoop started from a sprinting position. As an airline well established. It was not really built from the ground up. It was hived off from a going concern.

Flair is a real startup.

As such I really think you’re playing into you know who’s hands by agreeing that Swoop was actually a legitimate startup. It was not. If it wasn’t really a legitimate startup then there is no justification for startup WAWCON. That is why you know who is holding fast to the premise Swoop was a startup. If that premise is false, then so is his argument.

I also think that, had you know who, and their ilk, not aided WestJet in attacking thier own pilots? The starting WAWCON would have been much better. But we will never know for sure.

What’s done is done.

From my own experience with AC.

Never look in the rearview mirror except to learn from it.
Let the anger go. It will only hurt you.
Always look to improve and close the gap between WJ and Swoop.
If your not at the table? You’re probably on the menu.
Never trust the company, everything must be in writing.
However you MUST always have a working relationship. Cornerstone stuff here.
Never let communication break down.
Take the time to reasonably determine the companies needs from wants.
Be reasonable even when they refuse to be.

Things will improve. It may seem like forever now. A decade from now it will just seem like a bad dream.

When does your current contract expire?

[jjj]

Name another “start up” that just gets handed over a route from another airline.

You should see some of the ‘tards in the Starbucks line at the campus that still believe Swoop is a separated entity.

Sure.

The name on the building is WestJet.

Name another airline that lets a “startup” use their stuff.

JJJ

[KAG]

Fanblade, I totally agree swoop is not a start up
It's an FU for certifying. I was being nice, my previous post I wrote the night before while drinking was much more blunt. I decided to edit it.