New WestJet FO

Discuss topics relating to Westjet.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Arcticmonkey
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:19 am

New WestJet FO

Post by Arcticmonkey » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:02 am

What is the outlook for a new WJ FO in 2019?

Starting pay and progression?

Seniority for upgrade in relation to Encore/Swoop pilots?

Number of years to get a Vancouver base?

Outlook in the next ten years with retirements, expansion?

Obviously Air Canada is the superior choice now, but memories of the 2000s show it wasn’t always the case and might not be the case in the future.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Oleo 4
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:18 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Oleo 4 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:51 am

I'll try to answer as a line pilot, Dave P would be the best source.

New Hires base: YYZ given seniority and current YYZ based pilots trying to bid west

Starting Pay: 2019 First Year FO $60.97 guaranteed 77.5 block hours per month

Seniority: WestJet/Swoop are common employer, you would be BOTL. Encore seniority currently does not factor on WestJet lists (hopefully fixed soon)

YVR Base: Last FO currently holding YVR is 2014 with three more spots pending will make them 2015 hires. 4-5 years depending on future base size reqs.

Outlook: With Onex purchase pending/corporate restructure this is a question that can not be answered yet. I would imagine a few retirements with the onex sale on top of those who have planned to depart.

Expansion: well we all hope Onex expands our widebody operations but we wont know until we hear it from the brass.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Boreas
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:06 pm
Location: The haunted corners of familiar rooms

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Boreas » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:25 pm

Oleo 4 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:51 am
Seniority: WestJet/Swoop are common employer, you would be BOTL. Encore seniority currently does not factor on WestJet lists (hopefully fixed soon)
This should be the single biggest concern for anyone considering going to WestJet "OTS", by far! Huge dice roll.

I'm curious, when was the most junior captain hired?
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3082
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Bede » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Boreas wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:25 pm
I'm curious, when was the most junior captain hired?
May/June 2010
---------- ADS -----------
  

Eric Janson
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 816
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Eric Janson » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:13 am

There are no guarantees in this business.

Aviation is a cyclical business - looks like we are approaching the end of a period of unprecedented growth. I expect a severe downturn at some point - when is anyone's guess.

No Airline is too big to fail - Air Canada was looking at Bankruptcy 10 years ago.

Job security is a myth imho - I don't care who you work for.

All you can do is to make yourself as marketable as possible.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business

User avatar
daedalusx
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:51 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by daedalusx » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:44 am

Eric Janson wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:13 am
There are no guarantees in this business.

Aviation is a cyclical business - looks like we are approaching the end of a period of unprecedented growth. I expect a severe downturn at some point - when is anyone's guess.

No Airline is too big to fail - Air Canada was looking at Bankruptcy 10 years ago.

Job security is a myth imho - I don't care who you work for.

All you can do is to make yourself as marketable as possible.
Agreed. The best job stability is to get 500hrs+ left seat on a transport type jet. Once you get that, even in a heavy recession or if the company goes tits up, you’ll always always find work. FO time ? Not so much.
Personally, I believe there is a lot of better opportunities right now than WJ such as SWG and CJ. Much quicker upgrade and better pay.
---------- ADS -----------
  
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"

Blueshift
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:15 pm
Location: Arctic

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Blueshift » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:07 am

Any word when the one-list issue will be set in stone?

If it continues as two separate lists, will this issue be perpetually hanging over the heads of those hired as OTS will every contract negotiated?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Kaykay
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:21 am
Location: Canada...sometimes

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Kaykay » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:11 am

Blueshift wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:07 am
Any word when the one-list issue will be set in stone?

If it continues as two separate lists, will this issue be perpetually hanging over the heads of those hired as OTS will every contract negotiated?
1) Who knows. It’ll take time.

2) Probably, although the WJ MEC still has to protect the interests of those hired OTS in some fashion as they are dues paying members. It’s an interesting representation predicament.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Arcticmonkey
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:19 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Arcticmonkey » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:18 am

Wow. That bad, huh?

While I feel for the Encore pilots, and it sucks for them to start at the bottom of the list again, obviously being behind every Encore pilot is a huge deterrent to going OTS mainline.

What does pay look like for an FO as years go on? And would it be a worthwhile trade for a 703 captain spot? It seems like you hear a lot of complaining from the FOs, but we’re not seeing a parade of resumes from them. Lol
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
KAG
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3575
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by KAG » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:12 pm

Its a pretty good gig still, good schedules, travel perks, pretty good money. Really theres a lot up in the air. With Onex buying us, a change in our compensation (pension) and I hear accelerated 787s coming, there is some good moment coming. That could change tomorrow, this is aviation after all. Grab a seat and start building seniority now. AC now may have 600(?) AT pilots may jumping into the mix, that could change upgrade times there now too. Who knows. I don't.
Westjet has some hurdles to overcome, some changes happening (standby for Delta joint venture), but I think its going to be a great spot to be in down the road. I hope.
Like all things time will tell.
---------- ADS -----------
  
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.

jjj
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:53 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by jjj » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:57 pm

Interesting post KAG.

Many did the fast dash to AC with eyes on a quick upgrade...

Now all of that is up in the air with a merged seniority list if the deal goes through.

This only thing that is certain in this business is uncertainty.

Best of luck to all.

JJJ
---------- ADS -----------
  

Hangry
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:05 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Hangry » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:12 pm

650 pilots coming to AC with 20 wide bodies and however many narrow bodies.

28 or so max on the way. 50 220’s.

The myth of the stagnation is way over rated (at least to a NB left seat). But keep telling yourself that.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Eric Janson
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 816
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Eric Janson » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:28 pm

Hangry wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:12 pm
The myth of the stagnation is way over rated (at least to a NB left seat). But keep telling yourself that.
Some of us remember September 11 2001 and the aftermath.

A lot of Airlines went under as traffic numbers collapsed overnight globally.

No shortage of potential triggers for this to happen again.

If the news reports are correct we came within 10 minutes of a major war in the Middle East. -
---------- ADS -----------
  
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business

User avatar
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7776
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Winterfell...

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by iflyforpie » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:50 am

Hangry wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:12 pm
650 pilots coming to AC with 20 wide bodies and however many narrow bodies.

28 or so max on the way. 50 220’s.

The myth of the stagnation is way over rated (at least to a NB left seat). But keep telling yourself that.
That’s a lot of expansion, but it’s also a lot of liabilities. That’s what nearly killed Air Canada in the early 2000s.... buying competition (CDN/PWA) who bought competition (CP/Wardair) who had themselves leveraged to the ying yang on fleet expansion in the wake of deregulation.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

Hangry
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:05 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Hangry » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:04 am

The point is if AC stagnates, everyone will. Think that left seat's going to come sooner at WJ if the economy tanks?

Slagging someone coming to AC from WJ looking for a left seat makes no sense. If it's not coming at AC. It's for sure not coming at WJ.
---------- ADS -----------
  

jjj
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:53 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by jjj » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:49 pm

I don't think people are slagging pilots who jump from WS to AC to chase a better future. I think the point is that if you've been around long enough you know that nothing is for certain in this biz. A jump to AC may not work out as intended - that's all. No ill will to anyone who's trying to make it over the fence.

Good luck to all.

JJJ
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7776
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Winterfell...

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by iflyforpie » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:22 pm

Hangry wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:04 am
The point is if AC stagnates, everyone will. Think that left seat's going to come sooner at WJ if the economy tanks?

Slagging someone coming to AC from WJ looking for a left seat makes no sense. If it's not coming at AC. It's for sure not coming at WJ.
I don’t think you remember the 2000s where it was exactly that... AC with layoffs, wage rollbacks, hurting with high fuel prices and inefficient aircraft (744, A340, etc), years as an RP before you went narrow body FO while WJ was expanding rapidly with its NGs and upgrading within a couple years.

Air Canada especially with buying Transat and all of the frivolous travel market that goes with it (which hasn’t done well historically in hard times... C3, Skyservice, etc etc) is still going to be hit by a recession harder than WestJet with lots of bread and butter domestic routes which are a necessity and also don’t compete with foreign carriers.

Like jjj says, there’s nothing safe in this industry.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

User avatar
KAG
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3575
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by KAG » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:27 am

Hangry wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:04 am
The point is if AC stagnates, everyone will. Think that left seat's going to come sooner at WJ if the economy tanks?

Slagging someone coming to AC from WJ looking for a left seat makes no sense. If it's not coming at AC. It's for sure not coming at WJ.
No one is slagging anyone. Infact I wish all my fellow westjet peers a great career. It's nothing more than a conversation, food for thought.
---------- ADS -----------
  
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.

Arcticmonkey
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:19 am

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Arcticmonkey » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:27 pm

I’ve withdrawn my application. It doesn’t look very good and I am happy where I am until something better comes along.

As long as Swoop is there for expansion and the likelyhood of Onex using that to increase value in their investment plus the possibility of Encore pilots bypassing me I’m happy to stay where I am.

What a messed up industry.
---------- ADS -----------
  

cloak
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by cloak » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:10 am

Of course career moves are based on individuals' situation and preference. As far as WestJet group is concerned, it seems to be poised for significant growth and as such it provides a great opportunity. An opportunity that must be examined carefully by individuals and taken if one sees oneself fitting well into its culture and pattern of growth. As it will be weighed carefully by the group to recruit individuals that not only understand its culture and growth plans, but also espouse its values, culture and goals for the long term.

Likely there will always be candidates who fake a smile to get a job, but hopefully for their own benefit and the benefit of those around them, fewer and fewer going forward. Life is too short and too precious. Work somewhere that makes you happy, because it will likely have the same effect on people around you, staff and customers alike!
---------- ADS -----------
  

yaba
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:14 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by yaba » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:37 pm

So, how does the upgrade from FO-Capt. work at mainline WJ. .Is it strictly seniority. Do they do a SIM eval. Capt. Interview??

Thanks.
---------- ADS -----------
  

WestJet Puke
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:50 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by WestJet Puke » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:27 pm

cloak wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:10 am
Of course career moves are based on individuals' situation and preference. As far as WestJet group is concerned, it seems to be poised for significant growth and as such it provides a great opportunity. An opportunity that must be examined carefully by individuals and taken if one sees oneself fitting well into its culture and pattern of growth. As it will be weighed carefully by the group to recruit individuals that not only understand its culture and growth plans, but also espouse its values, culture and goals for the long term.

Likely there will always be candidates who fake a smile to get a job, but hopefully for their own benefit and the benefit of those around them, fewer and fewer going forward. Life is too short and too precious. Work somewhere that makes you happy, because it will likely have the same effect on people around you, staff and customers alike!
WestJet has been telling us they've been poised for significant growth for the last 2-3 years. All I know is that there are no upgrades on virtually every PSB that comes out, and very few widebody FO slots. Most of the current 767/787 FOs were reasonably senior 737 Captains. The Crew Management guys keep on telling us the 787s are going to open things up, but thus far I haven't seen it. I do know that the MAX situation probably is playing havoc with their staffing models, as no one knows when we'll get them back.

The junior-most 737 CA is an ~ August 2010 hire.
The junior-most 767 FO is a ~ March 2008 hire
The junior-most 787 FO has a 2003 date of hire.

We just had a few guys get awarded YVR FO, after a ~2 year wait. We have FOs who have been waiting to transfer to YYC for 2-3 years with few openings. I've heard of Captains downgrading to get back to YYC.

Hopefully those #s start dropping. You can go to AC and be an A220 Captain next year if you want to. At WestJet, I can't imagine the day I'll see the left seat. Opportunities for 737 upgrades at WestJet will almost certainly be in YYZ. Here's guessing they might start basing the 787s at either YVR or YYZ in 1-2-3 years. You can go to the Swoop side of the house if you want, but few folks are, as by the time you get to Year 3 FO, the pay is virtually identical, with 20% vs 10% ESP, and much better work rules / protections.

On the positive side, if you come here, you'll make ok $. Once you reach Year 3, you can do $120-150k all together. There are FOs who work much harder and bring in more. Good training department, good people to fly with for the most part.

Now we just need for that growth to start happening..... :smt040 :smt040 :smt040
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
KAG
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3575
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by KAG » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:32 am

Upgrades are seniority based. As long as your last few sims are clean and you dont have a serious attitude problem you get your upgrade.
That seniority list includes encore and swoop.
As for swoop who knows what onex has planned. Right now its slated to get 10 aircraft. Who knows if it'll expand or not. Lots of change coming. Overall feeling is optimistic.
---------- ADS -----------
  
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.

WestJet Puke
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:50 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by WestJet Puke » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:04 pm

KAG wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:32 am
Upgrades are seniority based. As long as your last few sims are clean and you dont have a serious attitude problem you get your upgrade.
That seniority list includes encore and swoop.
As for swoop who knows what onex has planned. Right now its slated to get 10 aircraft. Who knows if it'll expand or not. Lots of change coming. Overall feeling is optimistic.
+1 on everything.

Although with over 2000 pilots on the combined seniority list (which includes or is going to include everyone at WJ, Encore, and the Swoopsters who were not WestJetters) and few WestJet 737 upgrades or widebody transitions, you may find yourself waiting a while.

Optimistic for what Onex is planning.
---------- ADS -----------
  

yaba
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:14 pm

Re: New WestJet FO

Post by yaba » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:15 am

KAG wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:32 am
Upgrades are seniority based. As long as your last few sims are clean and you dont have a serious attitude problem you get your upgrade.
So how is it handled if there has been a SIM or attitude issue in the past?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “WestJet”