Swoop Pilot Open House & Info Session

[Hangry]

That logic does not check out in any way shape or form. Do you think the legacy carriers in the states get better raises because new ULCC's with sub par conditions and wages show up? Nope it actually comes from the other carriers of equal importance getting bigger raises. AA gets raise... United gets raise... Delta goes back to the top. ...

That was my point as well that it is actually Air Canada that has and continue to bring down the wages for pilots in particular, other (carriers) have simply responded. It was the one that started Sky Regional that almost bankrupted Jazz. It extended the probationary pay from one to two and then to four years, which also caused Transat and WestJet to lower their initial pay. And then it started Rouge causing WestJet to respond by Swoop. In an attempt to lower its costs, Air Canada continues to chase the lower end of the market. This is fundamentally flawed because by design, the largest airline cannot possibly expect to have the lowest cost in the industry to make money, it has to use its vast network and resources to do that. That is the root cause of the problem.

Rouge is a ULCC? I thought you had more credibility than that.

Rouge is actually a response to WJ’s LCC. WJ.

[cloak]

Read again and read the whole thing! Air Canada started Rouge which caused WestJet to respond by Swoop. Air Canada constantly chases the lower end of the market creating new carriers and pitting the smaller carriers against one another in order to drive down the bid for CPA for instance.

[goingnowherefast]

Swoop was a response to Flair (and an attempt to circumvent ALPA, either coincidental or intentional).

WJ is a LLC running a ULCC on the side
AC is a legacy carrier running a LCC on the side.

Comparing AC to WJ is like comparing American Airlines to a bastardized Southwest.

[iflyroads]

Rouge was started as a response to Transat.

[DropTanks]

.

[Tdicommuter]

That logic does not check out in any way shape or form. Do you think the legacy carriers in the states get better raises because new ULCC's with sub par conditions and wages show up? Nope it actually comes from the other carriers of equal importance getting bigger raises. AA gets raise... United gets raise... Delta goes back to the top. ...

That was my point as well that it is actually Air Canada that has and continue to bring down the wages for pilots in particular, other (carriers) have simply responded. It was the one that started Sky Regional that almost bankrupted Jazz. It extended the probationary pay from one to two and then to four years, which also caused Transat and WestJet to lower their initial pay. And then it started Rouge causing WestJet to respond by Swoop. In an attempt to lower its costs, Air Canada continues to chase the lower end of the market. This is fundamentally flawed because by design, the largest airline cannot possibly expect to have the lowest cost in the industry to make money, it has to use its vast network and resources to do that. That is the root cause of the problem.

It is interesting that the only thing you chose to cherry pick of my critique was likely what you tell yourself daily "air Canada bad.... Swoop good".

You are however making yourself a hypocrite in that what you are being critical of Air Canada for driving down wages.... You yourself are trying to convince others to take sub par wages and conditions for a seniority number which we know costs WestJet nothing...

You have played your hand and are showing a pair of twos... Time to fold... Admit you took the job for the "Benjamin's" because it was better than riding at Georgian... Except those guys got a jazz seniority number... So maybe it wasn't?

Anyways the only way these crummy operations get their wings is when people agree to fly....sky regional founded on pissed off 60 year olds with too much alimony to stop after forced retirement at AC. Swoop... Born on people like you... Who had a job.... And thought... Well I don't really care about the f/O's starting and what their careers look like... Or where the tails came from... It's better than what I'm doing now and if I jump high enough I might get a pay uplift for training.

So the reality is. Own your stuff. Be a man (woman?) And say... Swoop sucks... If it folds I'll be safe... The hundreds of front line/mid level people will lose their jobs... But I helped this happen and I will be fine.

OWN YOUR STUFF!!!

[cloak]

Wow, way too much assumption and the fact is you have no idea what you're talking about.

[cloak]

One other thought, AC pilots can sign a petition asking the company to lift the 4 year probationary pay. Whether it happens or not is a different question, but at least make the gesture! Perhaps WS pilots can then show up at AC AGM to return the favour. That would be "OWNING YOUR STUFF", wouldn't it?!

[Rupert.Pupkin]

Could you imagine being a Swoop pilot...