WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

[stickontheice]

In my opinion pilots are missing a big point. The NC bought us time. If things don’t improve and we get laid off it’ll be in October not June (for most of us). So now the clock starts on EI in October not June. We will have some money in our pockets until at least Oct 2021. Hopefully the recovery will be well underway by then and we can all get back to somewhat normal. Fingers crossed. Stay safe and healthy.

[flyingvinnie]

WestJet pilots are nothing but a bunch of whining babies nowadays. Nothing is good enough, everything is always bad. You guys are lucky to have jobs right now - every other group has taken massive hits and you're still left relatively standing.

How dare we complain about the WAWCON eh? How dare we complain about be making much less than our main competition and being probably the lowest paid 737 & 787 drivers in the entire planet..... that’s not very Westjetty of us. I mean it’s not like the only and only reason I have a job is to be paid, but I shouldn’t complain what I am paid and just be happy with whatever they decide to give me.....

YOU chose to go to WJ. People are quick to blame their circumstances, but slow to blame their choices.

[sjatana]

Congrats to the folks who missed the cut. Safe flying.

[JBI]

Congrats to the folks who missed the cut. Safe flying.

Let's hope things get back to normal-ish by the end of the summer so we're not faced with more potential lay-offs if there isn't an extension of this MOA2.

[learcapt]

An extension of this MOA2?? How about hoping the other 450 of your coworkers start to get called back. I know it will be tough but dont forget about them. Fingers crossed things start to get a little better bit by bit by then.

[JBI]

An extension of this MOA2?? How about hoping the other 450 of your coworkers start to get called back. I know it will be tough but dont forget about them. Fingers crossed things start to get a little better bit by bit by then.

100%

You may have misunderstood. I'm hoping that we can get back some of the 700 WJ, Swoop and Encore pilots laid off sooner rather than later. But looking at all the aviation news, I'm not optimistic that we'll be much on the upswing by the fall. United just announced that it expects to lay off almost 4,500 pilots October 1st.

[learcapt]

I tend to agree with you but let's be positive. All the best

[cloak]

Let's hope things get back to normal-ish by the end of the summer so we're not faced with more potential lay-offs if there isn't an extension of this MOA2.

An extension of this MOA2?? How about hoping the other 450 of your coworkers start to get called back. I know it will be tough but dont forget about them. Fingers crossed things start to get a little better bit by bit by then.

It's interesting how perspectives can be different depending on where one is!!

WestJet pilots are nothing but a bunch of whining babies nowadays. Nothing is good enough, everything is always bad. You guys are lucky to have jobs right now - every other group has taken massive hits and you're still left relatively standing.

Perhaps expressed a little harshly, but there is some validity to your observation. For instance some continue to complain that they would have been better off being laid-off, not considering the fact that lay-offs may well have been longer than their ideal 4-5 months over the summer, or the fact that they would not have had continued benefit coverage, YOS, etc. Others continue to complain about Swoop or management pilots, or continue with the conspiracy theories all the while forgetting to balance what they do have with what could be!

And of course most forget to balance expectations with the realities of the world that in order to have continuing gainful employment and prosperity, the company too needs to be financially healthy and prosper!

[ALPApolicy]

I think that there is no agreement that would ever please everyone, but this agreement smells of bias to some. I’m on the fence.

According to a text message floating around, there are 15 people who are members of the Negotiating Committee, the MEC, or the LEC’s. Of these 15 people, 11 were slated for lay-off as a result of the bid that closed in late April, and 4 were losing their position (including the MEC Chair who lost his YYC CA spot and would have been commuting to YHM for a Swoop CA position, and the Vice-Chair who lost his YVR CA and was forced to commute to YYC).

I understand the senior pilot’s anger at having to subsidize the rest of the bargaining unit. The FA’s, under CUPE chose to maintain work terms. I’m not sure which approach is better. Certainly senior pilots at WJ share their seniority benefits with junior pilots in a manner different from other groups, and I’m thankful they do. Seniority schedule bidding won’t help me for years, and as a commuter, seniority in stand-by travel would hurt me, as would seniority vacation bidding. Having senior people eligible for reserve if they change positions seems to me to be unfair to senior pilots, but it did keep me from any reserve consideration so I’m thankful.

Maybe ALPA should have gotten something for the pilots in exchange for saving the company money through this MOA that would help the senior pilots. Just spitballing.

Finally, the One List is what forced the company into this position of penalizing the senior pilots. Without the PTA, the company would have just laid off by bargaining unit, and been in great shape to weather Covid-19, without the need to punish the senior pilots.

I just want to say thanks to the senior guys and gals. I flew with lots of them the last three years and appreciate their sacrifice as involuntary as it was. 53% of the members voted in a survey to prioritize layoffs over concessions. Not sure why they didn’t hold the line, but it benefitted me so I guess I’m happy-ish.

Here’s a beer to better times ahead!

[George Taylor]

ummm, sacrifice? Ya right. There was no choice to made, it was made for everyone. If there was a vote, then maybe. Don't forget some of the most senior also are spouting off how they will take OT while fellow pilots are on the street.

[Blue42]

I think that there is no agreement that would ever please everyone, but this agreement smells of bias to some. I’m on the fence.

According to a text message floating around, there are 15 people who are members of the Negotiating Committee, the MEC, or the LEC’s. Of these 15 people, 11 were slated for lay-off as a result of the bid that closed in late April, and 4 were losing their position (including the MEC Chair who lost his YYC CA spot and would have been commuting to YHM for a Swoop CA position, and the Vice-Chair who lost his YVR CA and was forced to commute to YYC).

I understand the senior pilot’s anger at having to subsidize the rest of the bargaining unit. The FA’s, under CUPE chose to maintain work terms. I’m not sure which approach is better. Certainly senior pilots at WJ share their seniority benefits with junior pilots in a manner different from other groups, and I’m thankful they do. Seniority schedule bidding won’t help me for years, and as a commuter, seniority in stand-by travel would hurt me, as would seniority vacation bidding. Having senior people eligible for reserve if they change positions seems to me to be unfair to senior pilots, but it did keep me from any reserve consideration so I’m thankful.

Maybe ALPA should have gotten something for the pilots in exchange for saving the company money through this MOA that would help the senior pilots. Just spitballing.

Finally, the One List is what forced the company into this position of penalizing the senior pilots. Without the PTA, the company would have just laid off by bargaining unit, and been in great shape to weather Covid-19, without the need to punish the senior pilots.

I just want to say thanks to the senior guys and gals. I flew with lots of them the last three years and appreciate their sacrifice as involuntary as it was. 53% of the members voted in a survey to prioritize layoffs over concessions. Not sure why they didn’t hold the line, but it benefitted me so I guess I’m happy-ish.

Here’s a beer to better times ahead!

The 53% wasn’t a vote and it was explained why the decisions were made the way they were. I find it funny that a few keep bringing up the 53% as a majority decision, that was pretty much the “no” vote to unionization 3 or 4 years ago. Didn’t stop the gang from pushing ALPA down throats a year later with their big promises and giant “tool box”. It’s actually a small percentage that are really upset, and seem to be mostly newer upgrades. Some less then a month or 2, c’mon.....we’re going to sink 850 guys so a few can enjoy the summer off. There are many more happier then upset in my opinion. Cheers to beers!

[hurtin'albertan]

The 53% wasn’t a vote and it was explained why the decisions were made the way they were. I find it funny that a few keep bringing up the 53% as a majority decision, that was pretty much the “no” vote to unionization 3 or 4 years ago. Didn’t stop the gang from pushing ALPA down throats a year later with their big promises and giant “tool box”. It’s actually a small percentage that are really upset, and seem to be mostly newer upgrades. Some less then a month or 2, c’mon.....we’re going to sink 850 guys so a few can enjoy the summer off. There are many more happier then upset in my opinion. Cheers to beers!

I agree. 53% of people saying one thing on a survey that was only filled out by less than 2/3 of the pilots is not a majority. And the guys said on the call a couple weeks ago that a lot of people in that 53% then went on to add things in the comments like "but, I'd be ok with a lower mmg" and all that.

I think some people are scared, some are angry and some probably have a hate-on for alpa already and long for the good ole days of the wjpa. Some feel all three. This whole letter thing written by a former old guard guy... like where do I even begin.

People need to take a look around at what's happening in the world, and the economy and the industry. Sure, the FAs didn't take any concessions, except now there are only like 350 left flying full blocks and deadheading and hotelling all over the place during a pandemic, out of, what 3000? How many days a month are our pilots flying? That's a whole other conversation right there.

And this whole bs about us taking the deepest cuts in North America. Well the US carriers CAN'T do any cuts until their fed grants run out this fall and they are already gearing up for massive layoffs and concessions come then. And tell that to the Transat and Sunwing and Porter guys in the EI or CERB line right now. And Air Canada has basically the same deal as us! LOL

Anyways, let's hope this is all over soon and everyone stay safe.

[Furloughed]

AC just waited until the Markets closed before the Long Weekend, and then announced layoffs of between 19,000 to 23,500 out of 38,000 employees. Once that happens, we all know it takes years, not months to get everyone retrained and up to speed. Means that what we have been hearing from our own CEO about a long recovery of up to three years is probably realistic. This is going to be for the long haul, hate to say it. Hope the MEC is already looking beyond when the current MOA expires on Sept 30th, because we are not in the drivers seat or anywhere close to it this time. The pilot shortage is officially over. Wait til the inevitable failures of companies start to happen. Going to make 9/11 and SARS look like a cake walk. Hope everyone is keeping healthy in all ways.

[Babar350]

Or maybe the announcement was made on purpose to force the federal to give them some sort of a bailout.
Meanwhile, watch the market opens on Monday morning, I won't be surprised to see AC stock plummets another 50%.

[rudder]

Or maybe the announcement was made on purpose to force the federal to give them some sort of a bailout.
Meanwhile, watch the market opens on Monday morning, I won't be surprised to see AC stock plummets another 50%.

TSX is closed Monday (Victoria Day).

As for timing, AC had already been in discussions with some labour groups and CUPE had put out a bulletin on May 14 containing some of the bad news. Having said that, by putting the story out on Friday after JT headed for Harrington it meant the impact of the story would be felt through the news cycle without rebuttal from YOW for 2-3 days.

CR is clearly pissed about the lack of industry specific aid from the Feds. So he will use this as an opportunity to highlight that. If anything positive comes of it, WJ will benefit by association.

As for valuation, I doubt the stock will move more than 10% on Tuesday. Most of the impact of COVID has been priced in to the stock and there is no suggestion that AC is remotely close to CCAA. And as for WJ, ONEX just took a massive write down on their investment.

[Blue42]

Or maybe the announcement was made on purpose to force the federal to give them some sort of a bailout.
Meanwhile, watch the market opens on Monday morning, I won't be surprised to see AC stock plummets another 50%.

Funny, AC was up over 14%! Good call.

[Babar350]

Or maybe the announcement was made on purpose to force the federal to give them some sort of a bailout.
Meanwhile, watch the market opens on Monday morning, I won't be surprised to see AC stock plummets another 50%.

Funny, AC was up over 14%! Good call.

Well, when you have the government saying " we will be working with the airline to help cope with a pandemic" that is some kind of bailout.
Time will tell.

[mijbil]

It's the CBC reporting so have a shot of tequila and then some salt. It looks at first glance like ONEX is trying to skirt the law. If so, Westjetters, move to stop this before it impacts other companies. A precedent is all that is required for the others.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westje ... -1.5578719

[Commonwealth]

It's the CBC reporting so have a shot of tequila and then some salt. It looks at first glance like ONEX is trying to skirt the law. If so, Westjetters, move to stop this before it impacts other companies. A precedent is all that is required for the others.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westje ... -1.5578719

I agree about having a drink first. Also take two deep breaths before and after reading the article. IMO there will be a lot of hate towards WestJet over this. I think the general public really dislikes it when a corporation wants special help because following the law is no longer convenient. The public sees that WJ does not want to honour the contract it holds with its workforce. This comes as a low blow and this behaviour really shows what WJ thinks of its workforce. Personally I am sad to read this because I once believed WJ set a high mark In employee relations. How far they have fallen.

[palebird]

To all those people who thought/said ONEX purchase was a step forward. Wrong. They are corporate raiders. Period. Now they need to get their money out of Westjet by any means possible. Look out below. Everything is on the table.