More WJ layoffs

Discuss topics relating to Westjet.

Moderators: Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
Oscar
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:58 pm

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by Oscar »

I find it concerning the division it’s creating among the groups
The primary reason the 4 western LEC voted down the last "offer" was solely based on the unscrupulous manner in which the MEC Chair and the Grievance Chair went around the NC to conduct a backdoor deal with the company. The 4 LEC voted down the company's backdoor offer based on principle, and as a result of standing up for the pilot group, they have suffered immense character assassination and abuse. The MEC chair should be ashamed of himself for asking the Grievance chair to act on his behalf in bypassing the NC. The best thing he could do now would be resign and save the membership from any further damage. The 4 western LEC are not acting out in defiance of the eastern LEC or anyone else. There exists no place in our union system where this kind of "backroom deal" behavior can be accepted or tolerated. If the company actually bargained in good faith with the NC to arrive at this deal, the 4 western LEC would have voted to present it to the pilot group for ratification. It's because of the MEC & Grievance Chair's actions that we have not come to an agreement already. We should all be thanking the 4 LEC for their incredible moral compass and strong will to serve and protect the interests of their membership.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
George Taylor
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:21 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by George Taylor »

Oscar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:30 pm
I find it concerning the division it’s creating among the groups
The primary reason the 4 western LEC voted down the last "offer" was solely based on the unscrupulous manner in which the MEC Chair and the Grievance Chair went around the NC to conduct a backdoor deal with the company. The 4 LEC voted down the company's backdoor offer based on principle, and as a result of standing up for the pilot group, they have suffered immense character assassination and abuse. The MEC chair should be ashamed of himself for asking the Grievance chair to act on his behalf in bypassing the NC. The best thing he could do now would be resign and save the membership from any further damage. The 4 western LEC are not acting out in defiance of the eastern LEC or anyone else. There exists no place in our union system where this kind of "backroom deal" behavior can be accepted or tolerated. If the company actually bargained in good faith with the NC to arrive at this deal, the 4 western LEC would have voted to present it to the pilot group for ratification. It's because of the MEC & Grievance Chair's actions that we have not come to an agreement already. We should all be thanking the 4 LEC for their incredible moral compass and strong will to serve and protect the interests of their membership.
100%
---------- ADS -----------
 
hurtin'albertan
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:40 pm

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by hurtin'albertan »

George Taylor wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:33 pm
Oscar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:30 pm
I find it concerning the division it’s creating among the groups
The primary reason the 4 western LEC voted down the last "offer" was solely based on the unscrupulous manner in which the MEC Chair and the Grievance Chair went around the NC to conduct a backdoor deal with the company. The 4 LEC voted down the company's backdoor offer based on principle, and as a result of standing up for the pilot group, they have suffered immense character assassination and abuse. The MEC chair should be ashamed of himself for asking the Grievance chair to act on his behalf in bypassing the NC. The best thing he could do now would be resign and save the membership from any further damage. The 4 western LEC are not acting out in defiance of the eastern LEC or anyone else. There exists no place in our union system where this kind of "backroom deal" behavior can be accepted or tolerated. If the company actually bargained in good faith with the NC to arrive at this deal, the 4 western LEC would have voted to present it to the pilot group for ratification. It's because of the MEC & Grievance Chair's actions that we have not come to an agreement already. We should all be thanking the 4 LEC for their incredible moral compass and strong will to serve and protect the interests of their membership.
100%
Cool story bro, but incorrect.

Go read the two western LEC emails again, and pay attention to the dates and how things went down. They voted against the most recent company offer on March 9, 4-2. They had another meeting on the 12 to discuss the same offer. Their email states they were not aware of the origin story of the final offer until late in the evening on the 12th. They didn't vote to not bring it to the pilots because of how the offer came to be.

From what I'm told by several people supposedly in the know is they originally voted against letting the pilots see it (on Mar 9) to call the company's bluff. They doubled down on the 12, then found out about the backroom bs.
---------- ADS -----------
 
elite
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:46 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by elite »

ALPApolicy wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:21 pm ...My argument is that ALPA has a system. The system seems to have been utilized. The 4 LEC reps out voted the 2 LEC reps. That's the system.

If we want to organize ourselves differently, we can. ..
You may find some day, if not already, that moving forward that is a good idea. At Canada 3000 ALPA over promised and under delivered by a long shot and when dues stopped coming in they left and shut down the pilot assistance web site! During the pandemic when everyone has had to take less, from companies to staff, has ALPA given a break on their dues by stopping it or reducing the percentage for a few months?

As for your LEC reps voting on principle, wouldn’t it have been more in line with principle to judge the offer based on its merit and benefits to the membership and then deal with how it was brought forward and allow discipline to take place transparently as needed?
---------- ADS -----------
 
ALPApolicy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:34 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by ALPApolicy »

elite wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:51 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:21 pm ...My argument is that ALPA has a system. The system seems to have been utilized. The 4 LEC reps out voted the 2 LEC reps. That's the system.

If we want to organize ourselves differently, we can. ..
You may find some day, if not already, that moving forward that is a good idea. At Canada 3000 ALPA over promised and under delivered by a long shot and when dues stopped coming in they left and shut down the pilot assistance web site! During the pandemic when everyone has had to take less, from companies to staff, has ALPA given a break on their dues by stopping it or reducing the percentage for a few months?

As for your LEC reps voting on principle, wouldn’t it have been more in line with principle to judge the offer based on its merit and benefits to the membership and then deal with how it was brought forward and allow discipline to take place transparently as needed?
I was with C3 when it closed. I remember the ALPA story but in their defense they weren't on property long, and there wasn't much to be done when everything closed.

ALPA has a system, and as long it is free from arbitrary, discriminatory, and bad faith means, then they have fulfilled the Duty of Fair Representation both at law, and by statute. If some are unhappy with the process, then get involved and/or attempt to change the system.

There is no way to keep everyone happy. In any endeavour.
---------- ADS -----------
 
dialdriver
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:09 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by dialdriver »

hurtin'albertan wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:57 am
George Taylor wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:33 pm
Oscar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:30 pm

The primary reason the 4 western LEC voted down the last "offer" was solely based on the unscrupulous manner in which the MEC Chair and the Grievance Chair went around the NC to conduct a backdoor deal with the company. The 4 LEC voted down the company's backdoor offer based on principle, and as a result of standing up for the pilot group, they have suffered immense character assassination and abuse. The MEC chair should be ashamed of himself for asking the Grievance chair to act on his behalf in bypassing the NC. The best thing he could do now would be resign and save the membership from any further damage. The 4 western LEC are not acting out in defiance of the eastern LEC or anyone else. There exists no place in our union system where this kind of "backroom deal" behavior can be accepted or tolerated. If the company actually bargained in good faith with the NC to arrive at this deal, the 4 western LEC would have voted to present it to the pilot group for ratification. It's because of the MEC & Grievance Chair's actions that we have not come to an agreement already. We should all be thanking the 4 LEC for their incredible moral compass and strong will to serve and protect the interests of their membership.
100%
Cool story bro, but incorrect.

Go read the two western LEC emails again, and pay attention to the dates and how things went down. They voted against the most recent company offer on March 9, 4-2. They had another meeting on the 12 to discuss the same offer. Their email states they were not aware of the origin story of the final offer until late in the evening on the 12th. They didn't vote to not bring it to the pilots because of how the offer came to be.

From what I'm told by several people supposedly in the know is they originally voted against letting the pilots see it (on Mar 9) to call the company's bluff. They doubled down on the 12, then found out about the backroom bs.
MEC Reps and Officers acting outside the constitution can find themselves personally liable for their actions.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ALPApolicy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:34 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by ALPApolicy »

dialdriver wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:16 pm MEC Reps and Officers acting outside the constitution can find themselves personally liable for their actions.
A point I repeatedly made with respect to the violation of the Constitution & Bylaws with respect to the issue of seniority and Encore pilots carrying their DOH (absent a merger, of course) when they flowed to mainline. That horse has been flogged enough.

With that said, I haven’t heard of anything that even comes close to being a violation of the Constitution in this latest episode. I think the MEC Chair should go, but for reasons of leadership. It sounds like a majority of LEC reps feel the same way but my information is 8th hand and not current. The Grievance Committee Chair, meh...whatever the MEC feels is best will be his fate.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
RRJetPilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 10:43 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by RRJetPilot »

Unfortunately for the company they cant keep their hands hidden much longer.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-rei ... -1.1581590
---------- ADS -----------
 
pacman007
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:25 pm

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by pacman007 »

I have no idea how many pilots are left at WestJet, but when travel restrictions are lifted things won’t open one route at a time. There will be a flood of people wanted to travel! So hopefully WestJet is ready. With there complex system of bump down and recall, every time they need a pilot at WestJet it will take from another one of their own companies. So just imagine if they need to recall 100 pilots because of demand. Where will they get them and how can they do it. Just doesn’t make sense to me.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Yycjetdriver
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:00 pm

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by Yycjetdriver »

RRJetPilot wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:15 pm Unfortunately for the company they cant keep their hands hidden much longer.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-rei ... -1.1581590
100%

Several federal politicians have been on record saying they hope Canada wide travel/domestic tourism can return to normal beginning Canada day. The fact Westjet is resuming these routes the week before, could mean they’ve been told more than the rest of us.
---------- ADS -----------
 
palebird
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:17 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by palebird »

I doubt it. The whole "plan" is to kill the economy as we know it. That especially means the fossil fuel transportation industry. There has to be a massive uprising against this covid nonsense before anything changes. And I don't see that happening in this country anytime soon.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mmm..bacon
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:19 pm

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by mmm..bacon »

---------- ADS -----------
 
Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two!
hurtin'albertan
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:40 pm

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by hurtin'albertan »

palebird wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:11 am I doubt it. The whole "plan" is to kill the economy as we know it. That especially means the fossil fuel transportation industry. There has to be a massive uprising against this covid nonsense before anything changes. And I don't see that happening in this country anytime soon.
omg. Lol.

Image
---------- ADS -----------
 
palebird
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:17 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by palebird »

Exactly. Have fun out there.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
RRJetPilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 10:43 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by RRJetPilot »

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-add ... -1.1582928

More routes added back on. Who will fly these? I guess they will need the pilots......
---------- ADS -----------
 
cloak
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by cloak »

There is no doubt that federal government has failed managing the pandemic. While squandering taxpayers money for generations, vaccines order has been a fiasco showing at the same time, greed for ordering so many and incompetence in lack of timeliness. Its insistence to want to deal with communist China the source of the problem, not to mention its existing dubious dealings and corruptions clearly makes it unfit to govern and possibly amount to white collar crime. That incompetence and negligence has not helped industries particularly aviation.

Aside from that and as far as the MOA, a better of course of action would be to extend the existing agreement for 3 months with some minor improvements and then perhaps have another one for the next 3 months with some more improvements until travel picks up measurably likely by the year’s end. Better to deal with the MOA on its own and separately deal with discipline issues. Going forward, the relationship and trust must improve markedly if better contracts are to emerge.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ALPApolicy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:34 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by ALPApolicy »

cloak wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:37 amAside from that and as far as the MOA, a better of course of action would be to extend the existing agreement for 3 months with some minor improvements and then perhaps have another one for the next 3 months with some more improvements until travel picks up measurably likely by the year’s end.
I think we each support whatever benefits us personally to the greater degree. I'm ok with whatever the MEC decides as long as they follow the procedures as laid down.
---------- ADS -----------
 
cloak
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by cloak »

ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:50 am
cloak wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:37 amAside from that and as far as the MOA, a better of course of action would be to extend the existing agreement for 3 months with some minor improvements and then perhaps have another one for the next 3 months with some more improvements until travel picks up measurably likely by the year’s end.
I think we each support whatever benefits us personally to the greater degree. I'm ok with whatever the MEC decides as long as they follow the procedures as laid down.
Your presumption is incorrect. It is good logic that after a year in the pandemic when recovery is on the horizon not to cause extra disruption for so many and incur extra cost. So much inconvenience that benefits only a few is against the principle of a “union”. And the point is that it should not be up to a few individuals to determine the fate of all. With today’s technology it takes little time to vote. And any vote is better than none.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ALPApolicy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:34 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by ALPApolicy »

cloak wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:18 pm
ALPApolicy wrote:
I think we each support whatever benefits us personally to the greater degree. I'm ok with whatever the MEC decides as long as they follow the procedures as laid down.
Your presumption is incorrect. It is good logic that after a year in the pandemic when recovery is on the horizon not to cause extra disruption for so many and incur extra cost. So much inconvenience that benefits only a few is against the principle of a “union”. And the point is that it should not be up to a few individuals to determine the fate of all. With today’s technology it takes little time to vote. And any vote is better than none.
I'm not sure my presumption that people support whatever benefits them the most is incorrect. All people are motivated by self interest.

As far as what a union can or should do, that's all contained in the Canada Labour Code, common law, and ALPA's Constitution & Bylaws. ALPA violated that Constitution when it FORCED the PTA through, which sold out the seniority rights of the junior members. Where was your opposition then, or did the PTA not affect your self interest?

As far as this latest episode, I can't complain because a majority of the pilots chose a system that permitted a few to make decisions for the majority. The people have spoken.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Blue42
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 11:33 am

Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by Blue42 »

RRJetPilot wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:17 am https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-add ... -1.1582928

More routes added back on. Who will fly these? I guess they will need the pilots......
Everyone that is still there, current hours are not even close to the min pay levels....
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “WestJet”