More WJ layoffs

[Dias]

That's got to be around half of WestJet pilots laid off now isn't it? How many did they have going into this? Seems silly to do it now after keeping them on this long. Hopefully they're bluffing but I don't know. They had to think how weak they would look if they rescind the layoff notices with nothing gained in terms of negotiations.

[tsgas]

Clearly trolling to get a reaction. Hopefully there will be some news on mitigation efforts in the coming days / weeks. I think it'll be last minute for sure.

Care to share the initial details of what you are trying to mitigate?

From another public web board -

“ Letter to the pilots from WJ MEC and the Company to the pilot group on Friday March 8th have stated that the Company made its final offer on Wednesday, March 3rd and the MEC rejected it on Friday March 5th. DFO and Ed Sims sent out messages later in the day that the 415 layoff notices issued on March 1st, effective April 1st will not be retracted.”

There is something not Kosher about this "letter". There is no Friday March 8th this year. So what's the story ?

[altiplano]

Care to share the initial details of what you are trying to mitigate?

From another public web board -

“ Letter to the pilots from WJ MEC and the Company to the pilot group on Friday March 8th have stated that the Company made its final offer on Wednesday, March 3rd and the MEC rejected it on Friday March 5th. DFO and Ed Sims sent out messages later in the day that the 415 layoff notices issued on March 1st, effective April 1st will not be retracted.”

There is something not Kosher about this "letter". There is no Friday March 5th this year. So what's the story ?

Match 5th was last Friday.

[W5]

WestJet canceled 15 MAX orders

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... LifyCKQoh0

[tsgas]

From another public web board -

“ Letter to the pilots from WJ MEC and the Company to the pilot group on Friday March 8th have stated that the Company made its final offer on Wednesday, March 3rd and the MEC rejected it on Friday March 5th. DFO and Ed Sims sent out messages later in the day that the 415 layoff notices issued on March 1st, effective April 1st will not be retracted.”

There is something not Kosher about this "letter". There is no Friday March 5th this year. So what's the story ?

Match 5th was last Friday.

True my mistake. The letter states "March 8".

[Blue42]

There is something not Kosher about this "letter". There is no Friday March 5th this year. So what's the story ?

Match 5th was last Friday.

True my mistake. The letter states "March 8".

There was no “letter”, there were emails from the MEC, DFO and Ed talking about the negotiations and no agreement. All it said was they were going ahead with layoffs, no comment that they would not be retracted.

[CaptainHaddock]

WestJet canceled 15 MAX orders

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... LifyCKQoh0

So there are 15 painted in WJ colours, with 15 cancelled that leaves 10 more to deliver. Of the roughly 120 ng’s WJ has it will be interesting to see how many (if any) go back to the lessors now.

[Blue42]

WestJet canceled 15 MAX orders

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... LifyCKQoh0

So there are 15 painted in WJ colours, with 15 cancelled that leaves 10 more to deliver. Of the roughly 120 ng’s WJ has it will be interesting to see how many (if any) go back to the lessors now.

The MAX order was for 22 MAX7, 23 MAX8 and 12 MAX10s. 14 -8s are in the fleet now, so 9 more -8s and 12 -10s. I’m guessing the 15 canceled are -7s with the remaining 7 being converted to -8s. So 16 -8s and 12 -10s to be delivered.

[WestJet Puke]

WestJet canceled 15 MAX orders

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... LifyCKQoh0

So there are 15 painted in WJ colours, with 15 cancelled that leaves 10 more to deliver. Of the roughly 120 ng’s WJ has it will be interesting to see how many (if any) go back to the lessors now.

The MAX order was for 22 MAX7, 23 MAX8 and 12 MAX10s. 14 -8s are in the fleet now, so 9 more -8s and 12 -10s. I’m guessing the 15 canceled are -7s with the remaining 7 being converted to -8s. So 16 -8s and 12 -10s to be delivered.

As much as I don't like to see our airplane orders being canceled, if it is the -7s, I could agree with. I somehow have the suspicions that the -7 will end up as the lemon of the family, similar to how only a handful of airlines ordered the 737-600. Although the -7's range is impressive, there just aren't enough seats.

[Blue42]

So there are 15 painted in WJ colours, with 15 cancelled that leaves 10 more to deliver. Of the roughly 120 ng’s WJ has it will be interesting to see how many (if any) go back to the lessors now.

The MAX order was for 22 MAX7, 23 MAX8 and 12 MAX10s. 14 -8s are in the fleet now, so 9 more -8s and 12 -10s. I’m guessing the 15 canceled are -7s with the remaining 7 being converted to -8s. So 16 -8s and 12 -10s to be delivered.

As much as I don't like to see our airplane orders being canceled, if it is the -7s, I could agree with. I somehow have the suspicions that the -7 will end up as the lemon of the family, similar to how only a handful of airlines ordered the 737-600. Although the -7's range is impressive, there just aren't enough seats.

I agree with the 600 comparison but if the rumored Southwest order goes through that’ll be a huge boost for the MAX7 program. My understanding is the MAX8 performance has been far better then any of the predictions and can do anything the 7 was planned for.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

The 350 nautical mile gain at the price of losing 40 seats makes the MAX7 a dud.

You're paying 33% of your capacity for an increase of 8% of range.

[hurtin'albertan]

Back to the topic:

From the union update this morning there is no deal. PIlots won't see or vote on the last company offer.

415 layoffs and the reduction bid will go ahead Apr 1.

[mbav8r]

Back to the topic:

From the union update this morning there is no deal. PIlots won't see or vote on the last company offer.

415 layoffs and the reduction bid will go ahead Apr 1.

Truly sorry to hear that!
Does the reduction bid include bumping to Encore still?
Also, how many pilots will remain at both?
I’m afraid without some industry support this will not be the last shoe to drop, another 14 billion just south of us, here just more empty promises. I hope the industry is able to fully recover despite Trudeau!

[stabilizer]

Back to the topic:

From the union update this morning there is no deal. PIlots won't see or vote on the last company offer.

415 layoffs and the reduction bid will go ahead Apr 1.

This is posturing. Pure and simple. There are still over 2 weeks remaining in the current MOA. The company's "final" offer has turned into a "final final" offer, which very may well turn into a "final final final final final" offer before this is all said and done.

On April 1st, without a deal, you can confirm 415 layoffs. Till then, it's purely negotiation. And this is part of the negotiation on both sides. Posturing in the media, through emails, social media, etc. Expect it to continue for the next 2 weeks.

The company needs another MOA from the pilots, far more than the pilot group (as a whole).

[throwaway123]

April 1st is a long ways away. A lot can change, including government support, possible lifting of restrictions, more vaccinations etc.

Posturing is correct.

Kudos to the WJ MEC for standing up to their company, I wish ACPA would do the same from time to time. For example the Cargo MOA should have never made it to a membership vote. As soon as that happened, I knew it was game over. We have a weak pilot group in this country and the WJ MEC was smart enough to realize they needed to be the brick wall between the membership voting on this MOA extension and say no at the MEC level.

[hurtin'albertan]

Hope you last two guys are right. For the sake of 415 pilots and their families...

Time will tell.

[80ktszzz]

Hope you last two guys are right. For the sake of 415 pilots and their families...

Time will tell.

Don’t forget the ones that were furloughed 11 months ago...

[Red1]

There is no deal, it done. There will be 415 less pilots come April, plus countless reductions, bases changes etc. For those thinking this is simply posturing by the company or the union, its not. Eventually a plan is made and you have to live with the decisions that either side made. Its disappointing to the say the least as both side were very close.

[Maxpwr]

.

[Yycjetdriver]

Not really 415 less pilots....those that wanted to will be absorbed into Encore. Yes they're getting a paycut but frankly nobody's losing employment and in fact some Encore furloughs are getting recalled even with all this happening. Company will carry the pilots at Encore for less pay rather than carry them at mainline with the entire group at less pay. Frankly with vaccines accelerating and everyone being done by September i can't see why the mainline pilots should give up anything for a further 6 months, especially when nobody's gonna lose employment.

I believe that’s incorrect. I’ve seen there will be approximately 190 out on the street, including some who bumped from Mainline to Encore during the previous reduction.