Seniority Travel

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ALPApolicy
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by ALPApolicy »

Tolip wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:51 pm Wow, this whole discussion just wreaks of priviledge and entitlement. Anyone on here that actually thinks this is a priority right now as half the company is laid off/displaced should be ashamed of themselves. Focus on the real issues fellas
Lighten up Francis. We can talk about whatever we want here because we'll, it's a forum. Perhaps if we all sign up for YOUR forum we could talk about what YOU want us to talk about.

Shit happens in life. Doesn't mean life stops. Even if people are laid off, there are still issues that will pop up from time to time. If things are going to bother you just by reading, my be time to step away from the computer. Nothing is worth your peace of mind.
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Tolip
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by Tolip »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:18 am
Tolip wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:51 pm Wow, this whole discussion just wreaks of priviledge and entitlement. Anyone on here that actually thinks this is a priority right now as half the company is laid off/displaced should be ashamed of themselves. Focus on the real issues fellas
I am a non-commuter who is currently on furlough who is advocating for active commuters.

Why are you so mad?
I think it's just incredibly selfish during a time where so many in the company are struggling (especially those with lower seniority who are now either laid off or displaced) to suggest that those with higher seniority deserve some additional travel privileges when it comes commuting or regular travel. Like who does this benefit? and surely their is better use of our unions negotiationing powers at this time. I'm not mad, just suggesting that we should keep our eyes fixed on recalls throughout the company
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pacman007
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by pacman007 »

Well I have to disagree, having been at 3 companies with layoffs, you should never bring back pilots at the expense of current active pilots. What will bring people back is more flying. Period. Sucks to be laid off but more flying will bring people back. If active pilots want to improve there working conditions i say do it.
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

Tolip wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 1:58 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:18 am
Tolip wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:51 pm Wow, this whole discussion just wreaks of priviledge and entitlement. Anyone on here that actually thinks this is a priority right now as half the company is laid off/displaced should be ashamed of themselves. Focus on the real issues fellas
I am a non-commuter who is currently on furlough who is advocating for active commuters.

Why are you so mad?
I think it's just incredibly selfish during a time where so many in the company are struggling (especially those with lower seniority who are now either laid off or displaced) to suggest that those with higher seniority deserve some additional travel privileges when it comes commuting or regular travel. Like who does this benefit? and surely their is better use of our unions negotiationing powers at this time. I'm not mad, just suggesting that we should keep our eyes fixed on recalls throughout the company
And there is the issue.

I wasn't clear enough; I am only for setting aside a certain amount of unsold seats for commuters.
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Tolip
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by Tolip »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 2:41 pm
Tolip wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 1:58 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:18 am

I am a non-commuter who is currently on furlough who is advocating for active commuters.

Why are you so mad?
I think it's just incredibly selfish during a time where so many in the company are struggling (especially those with lower seniority who are now either laid off or displaced) to suggest that those with higher seniority deserve some additional travel privileges when it comes commuting or regular travel. Like who does this benefit? and surely their is better use of our unions negotiationing powers at this time. I'm not mad, just suggesting that we should keep our eyes fixed on recalls throughout the company
And there is the issue.

I wasn't clear enough; I am only for setting aside a certain amount of unsold seats for commuters.
I actually read your comment. Your thoughts are actually spot on mate, 100%. I was casting more of my shade toward the earlier comments in the thread lol
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Tolip
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by Tolip »

pacman007 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 2:14 pm Well I have to disagree, having been at 3 companies with layoffs, you should never bring back pilots at the expense of current active pilots. What will bring people back is more flying. Period. Sucks to be laid off but more flying will bring people back. If active pilots want to improve there working conditions i say do it.
Everyone should try to improve their working conditions, ofcoarse. But not at the expense of others, those with lower seniority are the ones suffering through this pandemic downturn, through either layoffs, equipment chages/base chages massive decreases of wage to something almost unlivable. And for those who now also want to add seniority based travel privileges? I just think that it is really something; to ask for something that would only benefit those at the top of the list. Imagine being laid off for over a year, getting recalled to a base that is not your own and then getting bumped off a commuting flight because of a higher seniority standby pilot is heading for vacay. Seniority based travel privileges would hurt more then it would help, and this discussion is just another thing distracting from more important things. Swoop flying out of yyz, pasco taking westjet and encore routes, training being done out of order for bumpdowns plus the hundred and hundreds of laid of pilots that need to get back to work. And I know you cant just force recalls, they will come when the flying comes and I'm not asking for concessions from the top. But the top should definitely not be asking for concessions from the bottom. That's crazy crazy
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Impact
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by Impact »

Tolip wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:14 pm

Everyone should try to improve their working conditions, ofcoarse. But not at the expense of others, ...................... But the top should definitely not be asking for concessions from the bottom. That's crazy crazy
Was it OK when the bottom was asking for concessions from the top?

I threw out a few questions a couple of comments up, and really nobody has responded. Would you care to?
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ALPApolicy
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by ALPApolicy »

There may be pilots who are never recalled. Who knows what size WJ will be in a few years. But the pilots who are working are not going to stand still in negotiating working conditions because pilots are laid off. That’s ridiculous. If the current pilots who are entitled to vote on a new contract decide they want seniority for monthly schedule bidding, vacation bidding, and standby travel, then that’s what it will be.

Life isn’t fair. And then you die. The sooner you accept those two facts, the more at peace you will be.

Shalom
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Babar350
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by Babar350 »

You seem to enjoy this pandemic.
ALPApolicy wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:30 pm There may be pilots who are never recalled. Who knows what size WJ will be in a few years. But the pilots who are working are not going to stand still in negotiating working conditions because pilots are laid off. That’s ridiculous. If the current pilots who are entitled to vote on a new contract decide they want seniority for monthly schedule bidding, vacation bidding, and standby travel, then that’s what it will be.

Life isn’t fair. And then you die. The sooner you accept those two facts, the more at peace you will be.

Shalom
You seem to enjoy this pandemic.
I guess you are in the top 10%.
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:30 pm There may be pilots who are never recalled.

Shalom
Chag samaech!

You're absolutely correct that there may be pilots who are never recalled, although, the way the market is/was/is forecast to become, we will all be offered recall by the end of 2022.

The US is short on pilots and wherever the US goes, Canada is sure to follow.

Be optimistic and have a great day!
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ALPApolicy
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by ALPApolicy »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:20 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:30 pm There may be pilots who are never recalled.

Shalom
Chag samaech!

You're absolutely correct that there may be pilots who are never recalled, although, the way the market is/was/is forecast to become, we will all be offered recall by the end of 2022.

The US is short on pilots and wherever the US goes, Canada is sure to follow.

Be optimistic and have a great day!
Alternatively, WestJet mainline may never return to its previous size. Swoop may be the final destination for many recalled pilots. In the meantime, mainline WJ pilots will continue to seek improvements/changes in their working conditions with zero thoughts to how it may affect pilots who are not on property and may never be.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by ALPApolicy »

Babar350 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:54 pm You seem to enjoy this pandemic.
ALPApolicy wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:30 pm There may be pilots who are never recalled. Who knows what size WJ will be in a few years. But the pilots who are working are not going to stand still in negotiating working conditions because pilots are laid off. That’s ridiculous. If the current pilots who are entitled to vote on a new contract decide they want seniority for monthly schedule bidding, vacation bidding, and standby travel, then that’s what it will be.

Life isn’t fair. And then you die. The sooner you accept those two facts, the more at peace you will be.

Shalom
You seem to enjoy this pandemic.
I guess you are in the top 10%.

Dude. FFS. I have had three airline operations fail or lay me off then fail. Don’t be looking here for sympathy, you’ll find none.

In the meantime, I accept that I can’t control what goes on around me so I try to find a way to have fun while things change. I’m on day 7 of a Paraglider course today. It is a relatively cheap sport to get into to. And I’m having a blast. I don’t know what I can suggest for you to enjoy life while the pandemic is still in effect. It definitely can be hard depending on your circumstances.

Here is my first attempt at launching last week: https://youtu.be/ay-S4feY4Lc

Have a great day!
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

Happy pessimism... interesting combo.

How are you enjoying flying (literally) by the seat of your pants?
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ALPApolicy
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by ALPApolicy »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:12 am Happy pessimism... interesting combo.

How are you enjoying flying (literally) by the seat of your pants?
That is legitimately funny, happy pessimism. But seriously, if you set your expectations low enough, you're never disappointed. Although Anthony Robbins might suggest a more positive mindset of success...

The paragliding is so far very enjoyable. On my first day of training, one guy with two full seasons of living at the LZ stayed aloft for 5.5 hours. It is a relatively inexpensive sport compared with skydiving on an ongoing basis. About the same as BASE jumping initially, although as you progressing paragliding you likely want newer more high performing gear.

I will have about $2500 invested in my rating and about $4000 in used, good condition gear. But I will have the whole summer available, due to Covid, to learn the sport. I live within 30 minutes of two awesome launches.

Anyway, here's hoping that everyone is recalled quickly.
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eliteair
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Re: Seniority Travel

Post by eliteair »

It would seem the current standby priority system works. What doesn't work is having multiple employees commuting. Trying to change a working standby system to fix another issue doesn't make sense. WestJet should look at investing in hotels at their hub cities and providing commuters cheap standby rates for rooms. Or offering commuters heavily discounted confirmed flights.

For seniority travel; as mentioned earlier in the thread, this isn't necessarily a good system. What could work is something based on time of booking. Everyone could then see the list before booking and know exactly where they stand. Using this system, a solution could be presented to commuters which would give them earlier access to book standby flights before everyone else.

Good luck figuring out a solution and hopefully everyone is back to work soon.
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