WestJet Mainline/Encore Hiring pool

[dukepoint]

Thanks for the info Dave.

Any concern about the Air Canada/Jazz flow-through program? I know it's a little early, and light on details, but any idea on how this may impact the supply of potential Encore or Mainline candidates?

Cheers, DP.

[AtlanticTour]

Hi DaveP -

A couple questions based on stuff you just said:

1. Was the flow from Encore for the WestJet Jan 12th class 25% or 50%?
2. Is it for sure that you'll be flowing 50% over from May?
3. How many pilots is WestJet planning on hiring this year? I've heard between 50-100 from some of my friends who fly for you guys.
4. Are the 767s necessitating any extra hiring in addition to what was announced already?
5. Is there an estimate for how long it would take somebody hired in the next 3-6 months at Encore to flow thru to WestJet. I would guess 6-8 years.

Thanks for your response. I'm considering putting my name in with WJE and want to be able to project realistically how things would go if I were there.

-Newf

AtlanticTour

We just had two classes start here this past Monday on the 12th. One for Encore and one for WJ.
Encore is running monthly courses and our next westjet course isn't until May (50%flow)

The bulk of the Westjet courses aren't until mid to late summer as the 767 comes online. That's the plan for now subject to change as usual in this industry.

Again, our goal is 100% flow from Encore to WestJet.

I'm hoping we can achieve at least 50% flow for the remaining courses - Encore gets 8 of their 10 tails in the first half of 2015 so this might be accomplished without too much distress to encore (their big growth in the first half of the year and Westjets in the second half of the year)
Cheers!
Dave

[loopa]

These are some really good questions that I believe a lot of people at Encore also probably wondering about tbh. Since anyone I've talked to in there doesn't seem to have concrete answers.

I've heard anything from 3-4 years max at Encore, to upwards of 7-8 years.

Best of luck with what ever decision you make. I know people that are both happy and upset there. In my experience however, the happy people outweigh the downers by a large margin. And the downers are downers because they didn't do their research before signing up.

[DaveP]

Hi Atlantic!
I'll try my best here, but I don't have all the answers.

1. Was the flow from Encore for the WestJet Jan 12th class 25% or 50%?
The January class was the min flow of 25%. We would have liked to have done more but the growth at Encore didn't allow for it. All hands were and are needed on deck. Once growth has stabilized, it should be fairly easy to accommodate the high flow. We will see if more a/c options are utilized.

2. Is it for sure that you'll be flowing 50% over from May?
Yes

3. How many pilots is WestJet planning on hiring this year? I've heard between 50-100 from some of my friends who fly for you guys.
50 ish is the plan for now. I'll bet there will be some minor changes before the summer schedule is finalized and programs like part-time are implemented. Take the total new hires and subtract any flow (so there will be limited off the street positions IMHO)

4. Are the 767s necessitating any extra hiring in addition to what was announced already?
Still waiting on finalized schedules and decisions on when the second and third machines come online. For example if the third machine is accelerated - yes - this will accelerate hiring. It is being considered. These decisions are well above my pay grade.

5. Is there an estimate for how long it would take somebody hired in the next 3-6 months at Encore to flow thru to WestJet. I would guess 6-8 years.
I have no idea on this one. Sorry. There are too many variables...lease returns, part-time program, retirements, fleet expansion and the economy to name a few.

I hope this helps.

Also, to answer duke point - I have no idea. I don't know if I'll ever have an answer to that question.

Take care,
Dave

[YOWFLYER]

I know this question must have been asked at some point, so pardon me for asking again.

Is WJML still hiring direct-entry co-pilots? I heard that at some point in the near future the route would be through Encore and work your way up through the ranks. When will this policy begin?

[lostaviator]

I know this question must have been asked at some point, so pardon me for asking again.

Is WJML still hiring direct-entry co-pilots? I heard that at some point in the near future the route would be through Encore and work your way up through the ranks. When will this policy begin?

It has been asked. In fact, most of the posts on this thread are in relation to that.

[DaveP]

Hello YOW
There are a few direct positions to be hired this year however my interviewed pool is large enough to cover the available spots for 2015.
I suspect not many more WJ interviews will be granted this year unless something drastic changes in the next month or so.
Cheers

[Hetfield]

I was in the pool for 1 day. It is a great place to be. Love my job and the peeps I work with.

[Canada340]

Hi guys/gals,
I do apologize if this horse has already been flogged to death, but I haven't been able to find an answer in previous posts.

The situation I'm in is that I don't think I can afford to go from my present position as a B1900 captain to Encore FO, but at the same time I don't think I have quite enough time to be competitive for a direct WJ Mainline spot. I'm somewhere in the middle.
I understand the D.E. Q400 Captain spots are now done, but on the Matrix that Dave P posted I believe I have more than enough "time on similar type" to be eligible for an upgrade at Encore should I get hired there. On the matrix it says 3000 TT/1000 DHC-8 or similar. I'm sitting between 3000-3500TT with 2000 hrs Saab 340 FO (listed on matrix as similar ac type) time and 500+ command on the B1900.
- Should I bite the pay bullet for a while as a an Encore FO and hope for a quick upgrade? How long would I be sitting right seat before I could expect an upgrade? While more direct-entry captain spots open up?
- Or should I wait a while longer to build up more time where I am to hope to get a direct Mainline spot eventually? I feel like that door is closing quickly though and I might miss it? Or are off the street hires to the 737 expected to continue for a few more years?

Many thanks

[mantogasrsrwy]

I'm surprised at dilemmas guys are having with Encore. 20 years later it seems like a no brainier to me. If you are thinking long term you suck it up and go to Encore. 6 or 12 months later you are a Q400 captain or AC has hired or pfo'd you. Either way you are at one of the two big games in Canada. You do realize even if you get into the mainline all the current Encore guys are ahead of you?

[Mr. North]

Hi guys/gals,
I do apologize if this horse has already been flogged to death, but I haven't been able to find an answer in previous posts.

The situation I'm in is that I don't think I can afford to go from my present position as a B1900 captain to Encore FO, but at the same time I don't think I have quite enough time to be competitive for a direct WJ Mainline spot. I'm somewhere in the middle.
I understand the D.E. Q400 Captain spots are now done, but on the Matrix that Dave P posted I believe I have more than enough "time on similar type" to be eligible for an upgrade at Encore should I get hired there. On the matrix it says 3000 TT/1000 DHC-8 or similar. I'm sitting between 3000-3500TT with 2000 hrs Saab 340 FO (listed on matrix as similar ac type) time and 500+ command on the B1900.
- Should I bite the pay bullet for a while as a an Encore FO and hope for a quick upgrade? How long would I be sitting right seat before I could expect an upgrade? While more direct-entry captain spots open up?
- Or should I wait a while longer to build up more time where I am to hope to get a direct Mainline spot eventually? I feel like that door is closing quickly though and I might miss it? Or are off the street hires to the 737 expected to continue for a few more years?

Many thanks

I am in the exact same boat as you bud and I have thought long and hard about what I should do next. I'm a DHC6 captain with 5k TT. I was offered an interview last year as an FO (quick upgrade to captain), but I turned it down because the pay was literally less then half of what I make now. Not to mention relocating to CYYC and working twice as much? It didn't make sense. After 12 years of flying, and knowing I'd have to take a pay cut to make the big jump, that's still a hard pill to swallow. I know I'm worth more than that so I gave them the cold shoulder expecting to find something that paid me appropriately since there were other opportunities out there, not to mention a miracle call from AC. ...Fast forward to today; oil patch is drying up (at least for the time being), several operators have a hiring freeze if they aren't already laying off. Vacation airlines have their own problems, and AC has announced an 80% flow through with Jazz whenever they decide to start hiring again. Are you and I gonna make the list of 20% who come in off the street? Not with our mid level experience... I'm not one to say I'm entitled to work at AC but it sure is frustrating when they move the goal posts this late into the game. For years it was "go up North, work hard, and get oodles of multi-pic". Been there done that, so what now? Ride out your "cushy" 704 captain job until AC or mainline WJ starts hiring again? Could months ...or YEARS!! In the mean time 100+ pilots will be ahead of you at Encore, and AC may never call! Where will you be then?! Sucking a dry tit that's what.

From my understanding the current upgrade times at Encore are anywhere from 6-12 months, DOE. There won't be any more DEC's. I sympathise with your dilemma of applying to Encore now (and waiting years to go mainline) vs. gaining another 500+ hours and going direct 737. Is it worth obtaining the extra experience while 100+ pilots jump ahead of you in seniority at Encore/WJ? In my opinion it's not, but we are in the business of risk management. To each their own.

You're gonna want to budget for your time in the right seat. Some of my peers lament my complaints about pay, saying they survive off less, and to their credit they do. But when you make the ok money that we do, and own a house, pay bills, have a family, etc... Its hard to cut that in half again, even for a short while. You have to hedge your bets though and think long term. Encore is the only airline readily offering a seniority number right now, might as well take it. If AC calls in a year or so you can make a decision then but at least you'll have a seat at WJ no matter what. And if it all sucks, well we can always go back to our plum 704 job.

That's my thoughts, if anyone else has some constructive criticism, please share!

[loopa]

I feel for you guys. It's definitely a tough spot to be in.

I'm by no means an expert on anything I'm about to say, so please just understand it's an opinion. Don't go all touchy feely on me

I'm of firm belief that the Jazz/Sky/Evas/Ggn mess that we are seeing on the AC regional flying will ultimately push consumers to WJ's regional flying. Even the business travellers who do a lot of inter/domestic flying. Why? The incentives of flying on AC are diminishing by the numbers, especially regional flying. Look at what has happened to the incentives that were in place for business travellers who were once able to maintain their super-elite 100k status at AC? It has become tougher. On the flip side, look at the amazing incentives the TEAL/SILVER/GOLD status brings you as a regular WJ traveller. Quite attractive for the frequent flier!

Anyway, where am I going with this? As AC tries to throw their regional flying to the lowest bidder, they are going to get what they have already gotten. Disgruntled, unappreciated, and overworked employees that probably don't value customer service due to their distaste for the company's morals. It's quite simple actually: When you feel the company doesn't care about you, you stop caring about the company, and customer service flies out the window. Let's put it into perspective, how happy would you be spending 12 years up north, only to find out the best job you can accept at the airline level is at GGN for 31k/yr flying an RJ? 34k/yr flying a Q400 for Jazz... 28k/yr flying EVAS 1900F/O? ETC... with no real incentives besides a long wait until your spot frees at AC... if it will? The same goes across all jobs at those companies. It will show, the regional consumers will be even more disgruntled flying the AC product domestically, and consumers who haven't already switched, will slowly switch to WJ's product. Add to the mix a booming Encore, and you have a set up where Encore will dominate regional flying. It's just a matter of time.

That being said, while I'm not in your position, I would suggest to bite the bullet and go. You will see captain very quickly, and if you follow WJ's history, it only makes sense that things will improve to the standard of everything else that is already great about Encore/WJ product.

Hope that perspective helps bring about some insightful thinking on why I think biting the bullet and going to Encore is a good thing for someone whose long term goal is to fly in the airlines - especially if you're in a position where the 704 job is no longer where you want to be at. I just can't see how you'll be happy there in 10 years if you're already thinking about leaving.

[CanadianEh]

Wanna fly big metal and be paid well and appreciated? Go overseas!

[BverLuver]

I have no dog in this hunt, so we are clear. However, threatening to 'out' another user is not cool. What is cool is the tropical vacation you can go on for the next two weeks, while thinking about why we all really, really try hard to follow the forum rules.

//Sulako

[jjj]

I think Mr. North gets it.

Good on ya for carving out a nice life. When I was at your experience level I had no life - no wife - no kids - no house. I sacrificed much so I could get ahead in this business. I was one of the fortunate few who was easily able to survive my first couple of years at WS because I was living a paltry existence in the first place.

Not being able to take our experience and pay grade as we move laterally is in the DNA of North American aviation - it sucks.

Enjoy your life as it sounds like you're doing just fine. If you find a way to make a go of things and you sign up then it will be good to have you aboard as you seem to have a good head on your shoulders which is all I ever hope to be paired up with.

Cheers.

JJ

[Mr. North]

Appreciate the remarks Triple J. I've really enjoyed my career this far. On a bit of a scenic route to the airlines perhaps but I don't regret anything, rather I feel fortunate for where I am. Not to say I didn't make any sacrifices, there were plenty ...including lots of broken hearts left in the dust!

BverLuver, I would not get so bent out of shape for the decisions people make. This is a good discussion. So he's pro Encore, so what? This is the WestJet forum. You know, I went through a good part of my career judging others by the moves they made until I had to make some tough calls myself. People have their reasons for doing what they do and quite often they're not readily apparent. You can talk about the state of this industry all you want but I stopped criticizing my peers long ago. And I'm better off for it.

[BverLuver]

Mr. North,

I have no problem with anyone professing their love for anyone or anything or standing up for what they believe in! It's when someone directly insults people for making decisions they make for whatever reason they make them, and turns around and does the EXACT same thing they are insulting with eyes wide open that I have a problem.

BL

[Northern Snow Goose]

Hello YOW
There are a few direct positions to be hired this year however my interviewed pool is large enough to cover the available spots for 2015.
I suspect not many more WJ interviews will be granted this year unless something drastic changes in the next month or so.
Cheers

Hi DaveP
Quick Question....
The Job posting for Mainline that was recently removed after Christmas, was to cover the Interviewed Pool that may or may not cover the available spots for 2015?
Or have you already interviewed possible candidates that applied on the job posting prior to Christmas and are now siting in the pool.

Thank-You for your time!
N.S.G

[PROC_HDG]

I feel for you guys. It's definitely a tough spot to be in.

I'm by no means an expert on anything I'm about to say, so please just understand it's an opinion. Don't go all touchy feely on me

I'm of firm belief that the Jazz/Sky/Evas/Ggn mess that we are seeing on the AC regional flying will ultimately push consumers to WJ's regional flying. Even the business travellers who do a lot of inter/domestic flying. Why? The incentives of flying on AC are diminishing by the numbers, especially regional flying. Look at what has happened to the incentives that were in place for business travellers who were once able to maintain their super-elite 100k status at AC? It has become tougher. On the flip side, look at the amazing incentives the TEAL/SILVER/GOLD status brings you as a regular WJ traveller. Quite attractive for the frequent flier!

Anyway, where am I going with this? As AC tries to throw their regional flying to the lowest bidder, they are going to get what they have already gotten. Disgruntled, unappreciated, and overworked employees that probably don't value customer service due to their distaste for the company's morals. It's quite simple actually: When you feel the company doesn't care about you, you stop caring about the company, and customer service flies out the window. Let's put it into perspective, how happy would you be spending 12 years up north, only to find out the best job you can accept at the airline level is at GGN for 31k/yr flying an RJ? 34k/yr flying a Q400 for Jazz... 28k/yr flying EVAS 1900F/O? ETC... with no real incentives besides a long wait until your spot frees at AC... if it will? The same goes across all jobs at those companies. It will show, the regional consumers will be even more disgruntled flying the AC product domestically, and consumers who haven't already switched, will slowly switch to WJ's product. Add to the mix a booming Encore, and you have a set up where Encore will dominate regional flying. It's just a matter of time.

That being said, while I'm not in your position, I would suggest to bite the bullet and go. You will see captain very quickly, and if you follow WJ's history, it only makes sense that things will improve to the standard of everything else that is already great about Encore/WJ product.

Hope that perspective helps bring about some insightful thinking on why I think biting the bullet and going to Encore is a good thing for someone whose long term goal is to fly in the airlines - especially if you're in a position where the 704 job is no longer where you want to be at. I just can't see how you'll be happy there in 10 years if you're already thinking about leaving.

Loopa, are you literally hooked up to a Koolaid IV?? AC is making record profits and recording record load factors THROUGHOUT the network, express and mainline. The business people you refer to would rather walk from YUL to YYZ than do it in a 737-600 with no first class(if it isn't downsized to an encore Q on the day they fly). You're sitting here talking about how shitty it is working for an AC regional feeder; Please tell me you work at encore!? It must be nice to pretend the company cares about you so you can provide such a great customer experience!! And frankly, how is the incentive at Encore any better than Jazz? A pilot who gets on at Encore tomorrow is looking at just as long a wait to get to mainline as somebody at Jazz. Even at 50% flow.

Encore is no more booming than SKV or GGN; the only difference is that they haven't existed until 2 years ago. Get real, a regional is a regional. And having flown on Encore multiple times, I can confirm the pax experience is just as garbage as the competition.

PROC_HDG

[loopa]

I feel for you guys. It's definitely a tough spot to be in.

I'm by no means an expert on anything I'm about to say, so please just understand it's an opinion. Don't go all touchy feely on me

I'm of firm belief that the Jazz/Sky/Evas/Ggn mess that we are seeing on the AC regional flying will ultimately push consumers to WJ's regional flying. Even the business travellers who do a lot of inter/domestic flying. Why? The incentives of flying on AC are diminishing by the numbers, especially regional flying. Look at what has happened to the incentives that were in place for business travellers who were once able to maintain their super-elite 100k status at AC? It has become tougher. On the flip side, look at the amazing incentives the TEAL/SILVER/GOLD status brings you as a regular WJ traveller. Quite attractive for the frequent flier!

Anyway, where am I going with this? As AC tries to throw their regional flying to the lowest bidder, they are going to get what they have already gotten. Disgruntled, unappreciated, and overworked employees that probably don't value customer service due to their distaste for the company's morals. It's quite simple actually: When you feel the company doesn't care about you, you stop caring about the company, and customer service flies out the window. Let's put it into perspective, how happy would you be spending 12 years up north, only to find out the best job you can accept at the airline level is at GGN for 31k/yr flying an RJ? 34k/yr flying a Q400 for Jazz... 28k/yr flying EVAS 1900F/O? ETC... with no real incentives besides a long wait until your spot frees at AC... if it will? The same goes across all jobs at those companies. It will show, the regional consumers will be even more disgruntled flying the AC product domestically, and consumers who haven't already switched, will slowly switch to WJ's product. Add to the mix a booming Encore, and you have a set up where Encore will dominate regional flying. It's just a matter of time.

That being said, while I'm not in your position, I would suggest to bite the bullet and go. You will see captain very quickly, and if you follow WJ's history, it only makes sense that things will improve to the standard of everything else that is already great about Encore/WJ product.

Hope that perspective helps bring about some insightful thinking on why I think biting the bullet and going to Encore is a good thing for someone whose long term goal is to fly in the airlines - especially if you're in a position where the 704 job is no longer where you want to be at. I just can't see how you'll be happy there in 10 years if you're already thinking about leaving.

Loopa, are you literally hooked up to a Koolaid IV?? AC is making record profits and recording record load factors THROUGHOUT the network, express and mainline. The business people you refer to would rather walk from YUL to YYZ than do it in a 737-600 with no first class(if it isn't downsized to an encore Q on the day they fly). You're sitting here talking about how shitty it is working for an AC regional feeder; Please tell me you work at encore!? It must be nice to pretend the company cares about you so you can provide such a great customer experience!! And frankly, how is the incentive at Encore any better than Jazz? A pilot who gets on at Encore tomorrow is looking at just as long a wait to get to mainline as somebody at Jazz. Even at 50% flow.

Encore is no more booming than SKV or GGN; the only difference is that they haven't existed until 2 years ago. Get real, a regional is a regional. And having flown on Encore multiple times, I can confirm the pax experience is just as garbage as the competition.

PROC_HDG

What are your reasons for thinking the incentives are equal? Are you just considering the time from Jazz to Mainline?

Why do you figure there are record profits across AC regional flying?

And no, I do not work for Encore. But I do believe they have been extremely successful with their start up, and will do extremely well. If I was a betting man, I would bet on Encore's expansion going way past 45 frames.

I could be wrong, but as of today that's my opinion.