Nunavut & NWT not doing enough for climate change

[Dust Devil]

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/files/climat ... he_Map.pdf

Read the weaknesses on these 2 provinces. Give me a break what the hell can you do to please these people. They say there are too many emmisions from off road vehicals. "Shut your skidoo off when you stop to pee". Just shows these enviromentalists are not reasonable people and have no sence of reality.

[CID]

First of all, Nunuvut and NWT are not provinces. They are territories.

The arctic is quite a fragile eco-system. Carelessness can wipe out entire herds of migrating animals and have devestating effects on climate.

The polar ice cap is shrinking, Polar Bears are trvelling farther north, the temperature is rising and may eventlually start to melt the Greenland ice. The polar ice is mostly over water and won't have much of an effect on the levels of the world's oceans. Melting of the Greenland ice however will raise levels making some oceanside cities unviable.

Just shows these enviromentalists are not reasonable people and have no sence of reality.

The reality is that world leaders have ignored warnings from environmentalists and the effects have manifested themselves in rather destructive ways. The rather severe hurricane season this year can be traced to recent increases in ocean temperatures.

[EI-EIO]

remote places like those tend to depend more on stuff like diesel generators - if the feds cared they could assist in setting up more wind/solar/hydro up there, small scale for self-sufficiency and redundancy.

the fact is though those territories are a drop in the bucket except for the mining concerns.

[Dust Devil]

First of all, Nunuvut and NWT are not provinces. They are territories.

The arctic is quite a fragile eco-system. Carelessness can wipe out entire herds of migrating animals and have devestating effects on climate.

The polar ice cap is shrinking, Polar Bears are trvelling farther north, the temperature is rising and may eventlually start to melt the Greenland ice. The polar ice is mostly over water and won't have much of an effect on the levels of the world's oceans. Melting of the Greenland ice however will raise levels making some oceanside cities unviable.

Just shows these enviromentalists are not reasonable people and have no sence of reality.

The reality is that world leaders have ignored warnings from environmentalists and the effects have manifested themselves in rather destructive ways. The rather severe hurricane season this year can be traced to recent increases in ocean temperatures.

Actually some argue that the rise and fall in water temprature has been going on for thousands of years in a cycle. Also some think that global warming is actually the earth warming from the ice age. There are theories all over the place and no proven fact. There is no proof that the warming of the gulf waters is a result of human interferance. There is no proof that global warming is caused by people. I do think that it's safe to say that the few thousand snow mobiles North of 60 pose no more an enviromental hazard than the emmisions from a forest fire. Where are the tree huggers when those are going on?

[marcus]

Well Dust Devil,
I am glad to see that the "ostrich syndrome" is still alive and well! Perhaps you should educate yourself and read some of the climate change studies. All of the serious scientists around the world, that are not on the payroll of the Bush administation or the big oil companies, agree that global warming is definitely happening and is directly related to human activity increasing the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere (from 280 to 380 ppm in the last 100 years and still rising at 2 ppm per year). The only remaining debate is how rapid the future warming will be. But maybe you are very good at treading water and therefore don't really care!

[Dust Devil]

Well Dust Devil,
I am glad to see that the "ostrich syndrome" is still alive and well!

ostrich syndrome v.s chicken little syndrome. Guess we all gotta pick one.

[rigpiggy]

sachs harbour put in a wind generator swveral years back. supposedly they save around 200,000litres in diesel a year. check otherpower.com for home workshop generator

[rigpiggy]

from ntpc site obviously the fuel savings are enormous


Sachs Harbour

Powerplant
The newest generator, a 300kW Caterpillar, was installed in 1994. An 80kW Atlantic Orient wind turbine was added in 1998.

Installed Capacity
790kW provided by three generators - one 300kW, one 270kW, and one 220kW

Peak Load Requirement
230kW (2001/2002)

Fuel Tanks
Total capacity 510,000 litres in five tanks. Barged in once a year

[EI-EIO]

Could always get a bunch of those 400kW turbines from Canadian Tire - if the guy in the ad can be persuaded to leave his subdivision and move to Whitehorse

[just curious]

And YEV switched from diesel to natural gas from a field 30km away.

Whether it's a natural cycle, or not, close to 3 million bucks has been spent to replace pilings (every building on permafrost requires them to keep from melting it and sinking) under buildings in the NWT alone; all due to a shift in the permafrost depth and subsequent rotting. It cost me the equivalent of 750 trips to Tuk to pay for mine (mind you I had to the the 750 trips anyway ).

One of the big fuel consumers in the arctic, at least our little consumers of it, are the 300 pick-up trucks from the oil companies that idle for hours while their drivers are at the local hotels bars and coffeee shops. But then, I guess fuel consumption is good for them.

[rigpiggy]

EIO
Pretty expensive for 5 light bulbs worth of electricity


AirX 400W Wind Generator
AirX 400W Wind Generator
Product# 11-1861-8
View larger image
Price $799.99
Availability
In Store Online
Out of Stock


* Delivers 400W of power at wind speeds of 45km/h
* Carbon fibre composite blades
* Sophisticated internal charge regulator
* Maintenance-free with only two moving parts
* Patented peak power tracking for maximum power at all wind speeds
* Optional tower kit can be installed in three easy steps
* Great for use at residences, cottages, RVs, boats

[costermonger]

For those who say global warming might not exist, I have a question.

What if it does? What harm comes from taking preventative? Justify your stance by doing something other than bashing environmentalists. Please, educate us all why it's a bad idea to reduce the amount of crap we inject into our environment.

I'm so farking sick of the "we don't know for sure yet" argument because it's just an excuse for the status quo, or in simpler terms, laziness.

[Cat Driver]

In 1969 I spent some weeks on the north end of Banks Island with some scientists studying the fossils from sea level to the top ( around 1000 feet ) the evidence is plain that Banks island was at one time a tropical island by the fossalized animal, fish and plant life that can be found...however we did not find any evidence of any SUV's that may have been responsible for the temperatures that gave such life the enviorement to flurish in.

Cat

[Check Pilot]

Guys like David Suzuko and the rest of his mob of whacko-environmentalists start these crisis predictions precisely because they don't get funding from the, as you call it, "bush administration and big oil companies". People actually think these guys are independent scientists reporting the factual truth when in reality, the only reason to start a "crisis" is to try and extort funds from government to "futher" study their invented findings. Of course the left wingnut political types have to go along with this mockery so they can continue to hold up the rest of the common sense conservative thinkers hostage to a mis-informed and uneducated public that will buy into their communist dogma.

It's just another attempt to pick the pockets of the taxpayer by means of preying on the uninformed public.

Shame on them!

[costermonger]

Are you familiar with plate tectonics Cat? Commonly accepted theory places Banks Island at tropical lattitudes as recently as 300 million years ago. 500 million years ago it was very likely in the southern hemisphere. Nearly every part of every continent (with the likely exception of what is now Antarctica) has been tropical at some point, but that doesn't mean it's physical location on the planet has ever been tropical. It means that piece of land moved through a tropical lattitude at some point in its history.

This website has a nice animation that illustrates modern tectonic theory.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/geology/anim1.html

[costermonger]

Guys like David Suzuko and the rest of his mob of whacko-environmentalists start these crisis predictions precisely because they don't get funding from the, as you call it, "bush administration and big oil companies". People actually think these guys are independent scientists reporting the factual truth when in reality, the only reason to start a "crisis" is to try and extort funds from government to "futher" study their invented findings. Of course the left wingnut political types have to go along with this mockery so they can continue to hold up the rest of the common sense conservative thinkers hostage to a mis-informed and uneducated public that will buy into their communist dogma.

It's just another attempt to pick the pockets of the taxpayer by means of preying on the uninformed public.

Shame on them!

Okay, that was pretty funny, now let's hear how you really feel.

[Cat Driver]

Coaster...

Yeh, I read a fair amount and also understand the weather patterns and temperture variations are well recorded in the past several thousands of years.

I also can believe that we are polluting the whole ecosystem not only the air by the manner in which we waste all resources.

However like terrorism there is no real answer nor workable way to change human behaviour.

For those in the so called first world countries ( as well as Canada in the third world ) the use of fossel fuels will diminish as we find we can't afford to drive gas guzzellers for a start.

I'm sure you understand there are excesses in opinion on both sides.

[hazatude]

Cat Driver was born on Pangea so he should know. Silly children!

[EI-EIO]

rigpiggy - hmm, how did the k get there

if you use compact fluorescents you could run 25 60 watt-equivalent bulbs - Toronto Hydro's giving them away down here. Slave it to a battery pack and a couple of solar panels for summer operation (also available from the Tire) and you're all set...

[costermonger]

Coaster...

Yeh, I read a fair amount and also understand the weather patterns and temperture variations are well recorded in the past several thousands of years.

I also can believe that we are polluting the whole ecosystem not only the air by the manner in which we waste all resources.

However like terrorism there is no real answer nor workable way to change human behaviour.

For those in the so called first world countries ( as well as Canada in the third world ) the use of fossel fuels will diminish as we find we can't afford to drive gas guzzellers for a start.

I'm sure you understand there are excesses in opinion on both sides.

I wholeheartedly agree, especially the part about excesses of opinion. The problem is we've got two well entrenched, inflexible camps on either side of this issue. We've got the "sky is falling" type environmentalists (you know, greenpeace types) and because of the way they forcast our impending doom, people on the opposite side of the debate lump ALL scientists together under the "extremist" banner, and basically ignore the problem all together in favour of blind attacks on the ideology they assume their opponents follow. See Check Pilot's post for an excellent example of this tactic.

In the end, after all the discussion, name calling and general bickering that ensues, we're still left with an environment that is getting a little more polluted every day, and thanks to the politics of the situation, there's little to nothing we can do. Hell, even with political backing, the current level of technology doesn't allow us a whole lot of options other than cutting the speed at which we poison our planet by a few percent.

So, my question still remains the same. What harm can come out of the steps we can take now to curb pollution? I know it costs money to reduce harmful emissions into the atmosphere and water, but isn't that money well spent? And why do some people just attempt to sidetrack the discussion into something political so they can avoid the possibility that maybe, just maybe, humans aren't good for the environment?