AVCANADA

It is currently Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:24 am

All times are UTC-07:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 213 posts ]  Go to page Previous 13 4 5 6 79 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:25 pm 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:37 am
Posts: 1050
Would be interesting to read a timeline of events from the airport operator with regards to this matter like when airstairs were requested so they could open doors and when a gate was requested to deplane. Would also be interesting to hear from the fueling operator. I would imagine if an aircraft informed them and or the airport operator they were about to run out of fuel with hundreds of pax on board they would have been made a priority.

If they weren't given priority the fuelers and or airport operator should be held accountable. Would they be allowed to run out of fuel if it was -30?



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:52 pm 
Online
Rank 10
Rank 10

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Posts: 2733
Location: North America, sometimes
After hour 3, even with ongoing promises of fuel soon, how difficult would it have been for the Captain to call it a day?

_________________
Going for the deck at corner


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 pm 
Online
Rank 6
Rank 6

Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 448
AuxBatOn wrote:
After hour 3, even with ongoing promises of fuel soon, how difficult would it have been for the Captain to call it a day?


And then what?

Deplaning and organising hotels/transportation/baggage collection for several hundred people can't be done instantly. You are looking at several hours minimum.

Refuelling and continuing to destination is a far simpler and less time consuming option.

The attached letter from AT posted previously gives a clear explanation of the sequence of events.

I've read the letter - there's nothing there I would have done differently. Looks to me like the Captain and crew did everything they could.

From personal experience:-

I was positioning home earlier this year. The flight made 2 go-arounds and diverted. After sitting on the ground for 2 hours the flight was cancelled. We had to deplane, clear customs and collect our baggage. Then there would be busses outside to take us to our destination. It was a complete mess with 450+ people standing outside the terminal waiting for busses.

Fortunately I had travelled to/from this airport before so I caught a bus to the station and took the train instead.

Instead of being home at 1630 I was home at 0100.


_________________
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:40 pm 
Online
Rank 4
Rank 4
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm
Posts: 299
FICU wrote:
Would be interesting to read a timeline of events from the airport operator with regards to this matter like when airstairs were requested so they could open doors and when a gate was requested to deplane. Would also be interesting to hear from the fueling operator. I would imagine if an aircraft informed them and or the airport operator they were about to run out of fuel with hundreds of pax on board they would have been made a priority.

If they weren't given priority the fuelers and or airport operator should be held accountable. Would they be allowed to run out of fuel if it was -30?


The airport operator has been quoted repeatedly as stating AT didn't request airstairs, deplaning, or food service in spite of being made aware these were available. Fueling isn't from YOW.

Note YOW was quoted as saying deplaning would have been a cost to AT of $3000, which starts to indicate what this is likely all about.

Sounds like nothing to do with "priority".

We are to believe the crew is pleading for these items and is being ignored by YOW for whatever reason, and that YOW is now lying and everything AT says is credible? Why would they (YOW) lie?

I'm not buying it.

As a commercial pax BTW my expectations are extremely modest, being as its equivalent to me to a long city bus ride.

In order, they would be, Move me, fix delays / issues to the best of your ability, and please don't lie to me. Pax may not deserve much comfort, but truth should be a required item.



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:05 am 
Offline
Rank 6
Rank 6

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:31 am
Posts: 497
I read it. I'm sure at the 90 minute mark when their tariff says they have to let passengers off they still had fuel. YOW says gates were available


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:13 am 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Posts: 5823
Location: Part of the "me, me, me" crowd, and loving every second of it.
Eric Janson wrote:
AuxBatOn wrote:
After hour 3, even with ongoing promises of fuel soon, how difficult would it have been for the Captain to call it a day?


And then what?

Deplaning and organising hotels/transportation/baggage collection for several hundred people can't be done instantly. You are looking at several hours minimum.

Refuelling and continuing to destination is a far simpler and less time consuming option.

The attached letter from AT posted previously gives a clear explanation of the sequence of events.

I've read the letter - there's nothing there I would have done differently. Looks to me like the Captain and crew did everything they could.

From personal experience:-

I was positioning home earlier this year. The flight made 2 go-arounds and diverted. After sitting on the ground for 2 hours the flight was cancelled. We had to deplane, clear customs and collect our baggage. Then there would be busses outside to take us to our destination. It was a complete mess with 450+ people standing outside the terminal waiting for busses.

Fortunately I had travelled to/from this airport before so I caught a bus to the station and took the train instead.

Instead of being home at 1630 I was home at 0100.

You can allow passengers the option of waiting in the terminal building until another crew can be arranged and the aircraft refuelled, or collecting their bags and accepting a voucher towards arranging their own onward transport.

There's something good about offering people choice, and liberty. That why we take those things away from convicted criminals, as a punishment, when we put them in prison.


_________________
Control the horizon, control the airplane


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:05 am 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:37 am
Posts: 1050
rookiepilot wrote:
The airport operator has been quoted repeatedly as stating AT didn't request airstairs, deplaning, or food service in spite of being made aware these were available. Fueling isn't from YOW.

The question is when were they made available? Hour 2,3,4,5?

That leaves the fueling... did the crew tell the fuel operator and or YOW they were going to run out and lose air conditioning? If they did they should have been made a priority. I would imagine YOW could have put pressure on the fuelers to get gas on that jet.



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:02 am 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Posts: 1648
The CTA is investigating. The actual truth is somewhere in between the " he said,she said and that is your responsibility" scenario that is currently being debated amongst the parties


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:20 am 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Posts: 1934
Location: YUL
Here the official reply that Air Transat sent to the CTA/OTC.

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/sites/default/files/airtransatresponse20170904.pdf


_________________
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gQ_gr ... -h207-p-no


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:38 pm 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:34 am
Posts: 1968
Location: Canada
derk99 wrote:
Air Transit use to use Servisair(swissport) for their ground handling needs but a few years ago the decided they could save money by giving the contract to ASIG now know as Menzies that lasted one winter as ASIG lost the contract due to poor service such as no staff showing up to work on weekends,thefts,and other issues so instead of going back to swissport they decided they could save more money by giving the contract to the folks at first air.First air does not keep staff around all day waiting for diversions and first air does not have the ground support equipment such as stair trucks or push or tow tractors available to handle wide body aircraft.So moral of the story is if you pay cheap you get cheap.


This right here is exactly what happened.

Transat is a cheap company, that squeezes every contractor as much as they can.

First Air had ONE rampie for their 4 aircraft. Swissport even offered assistance, after taking care of their own clients, and 7F refused the help. Including airstairs that were within sight of the Transat planes.

This one falls on Transat for not planning on contingencies, and not opening up their wallet when the plan falls apart. It'll be interesting to see if the CTA cuts through it and finds the truth.



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:58 am 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Posts: 1934
Location: YUL
Donald wrote:
derk99 wrote:
Air Transit use to use Servisair(swissport) for their ground handling needs but a few years ago the decided they could save money by giving the contract to ASIG now know as Menzies that lasted one winter as ASIG lost the contract due to poor service such as no staff showing up to work on weekends,thefts,and other issues so instead of going back to swissport they decided they could save more money by giving the contract to the folks at first air.First air does not keep staff around all day waiting for diversions and first air does not have the ground support equipment such as stair trucks or push or tow tractors available to handle wide body aircraft.So moral of the story is if you pay cheap you get cheap.


This right here is exactly what happened.

Transat is a cheap company, that squeezes every contractor as much as they can.

First Air had ONE rampie for their 4 aircraft. Swissport even offered assistance, after taking care of their own clients, and 7F refused the help. Including airstairs that were within sight of the Transat planes.

This one falls on Transat for not planning on contingencies, and not opening up their wallet when the plan falls apart. It'll be interesting to see if the CTA cuts through it and finds the truth.


How can you write such B/S ?

Did you read the letter ?

The flights were not delayed for lack of air stairs.
The flights were not delayed for lack of rampies.
The flights were not delayed for lack of gates.
The flights were not delayed for lack of catering.

They were delayed for lack of fuel. Fuel, fuel and only fuel. The pilots were calling for fuel over the radio. Air Transat was asking for fuel over the phone.

They were delayed because several Air Canada flights, several Rouge flights, one KLM, one Air France and one Emirates, most of which landed after the first three Air Transat aircraft to arrive at YOW, were refueled before the three Transat aircraft and departed while the Transat aircraft were still waiting on their fuel.

The only question to be asked is WHY were all other aircraft refueled before the three Air Transat flights while these were relegated to the de-icing bay.

The Air Stair became a necessity for that one aircraft after its APU quit due to fuel starvation 4 or 5 hours after landing. To open the doors on an aircraft whose floor is 4 meters from the ground, one need to have air stairs installed, so people don't fall out and kill themselves. But right until the APU quit, the flight was being told the fuel would be right over. It arrived just after the APU quit......


_________________
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gQ_gr ... -h207-p-no


Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:14 am 
Offline
Rank 8
Rank 8

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am
Posts: 940
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Did you read the letter ?

The flights were not delayed for lack of air stairs.
The flights were not delayed for lack of rampies.
The flights were not delayed for lack of gates.
The flights were not delayed for lack of catering.

They were delayed for lack of fuel. Fuel, fuel and only fuel. The pilots were calling for fuel over the radio. Air Transat was asking for fuel over the phone.

They were delayed because several Air Canada flights, several Rouge flights, one KLM, one Air France and one Emirates, most of which landed after the first three Air Transat aircraft to arrive at YOW, were refueled before the three Transat aircraft and departed while the Transat aircraft were still waiting on their fuel.

The only question to be asked is WHY were all other aircraft refueled before the three Air Transat flights while these were relegated to the de-icing bay.


Okay, so that makes it ok to have pax wait for 6 hours in the plane? It sucks that they got jumped in the fuel line, but that doesn't mean they have a wildcard to just not care about the passengers. After 1.5 hours it might have been time to work on alternatives (stairs, gates, catering, .. )



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:25 am 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Posts: 1934
Location: YUL
digits_ wrote:
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:

Okay, so that makes it ok to have pax wait for 6 hours in the plane? It sucks that they got jumped in the fuel line, but that doesn't mean they have a wildcard to just not care about the passengers. After 1.5 hours it might have been time to work on alternatives (stairs, gates, catering, .. )


Most of the 20 that diverted to YOW that day were on the ground at least 3 hours. One Air Canada flight was in YOW 5 hours and 6 minutes.

Care to comment on them ?


_________________
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gQ_gr ... -h207-p-no


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:39 am 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Posts: 165
Location: Home
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
digits_ wrote:
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:

Okay, so that makes it ok to have pax wait for 6 hours in the plane? It sucks that they got jumped in the fuel line, but that doesn't mean they have a wildcard to just not care about the passengers. After 1.5 hours it might have been time to work on alternatives (stairs, gates, catering, .. )


Most of the 20 that diverted to YOW that day were on the ground at least 3 hours. One Air Canada flight was in YOW 5 hours and 6 minutes.

Care to comment on them ?

Gilles, because the flight number didn't change, you have no idea if the AC flight in question deplaned into the terminal in that time period, maybe for a crew change who knows, I don't but I suspect neither do you.
This situation is certainly unfair to AT and a lot of factors at play but deflecting to AC when you have no idea the circumstances for that flight is not a good defence. I also suspect if the passengers were on board the flight you mentioned for that entire 5 hours and 6 minutes, at least one of those passengers would have read the story on AT and found a way to have theirs heard but that's just an opinion, so take it for what it's worth.



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:09 am 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Posts: 1648
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Donald wrote:
derk99 wrote:
Air Transit use to use Servisair(swissport) for their ground handling needs but a few years ago the decided they could save money by giving the contract to ASIG now know as Menzies that lasted one winter as ASIG lost the contract due to poor service such as no staff showing up to work on weekends,thefts,and other issues so instead of going back to swissport they decided they could save more money by giving the contract to the folks at first air.First air does not keep staff around all day waiting for diversions and first air does not have the ground support equipment such as stair trucks or push or tow tractors available to handle wide body aircraft.So moral of the story is if you pay cheap you get cheap.


This right here is exactly what happened.

Transat is a cheap company, that squeezes every contractor as much as they can.

First Air had ONE rampie for their 4 aircraft. Swissport even offered assistance, after taking care of their own clients, and 7F refused the help. Including airstairs that were within sight of the Transat planes.

This one falls on Transat for not planning on contingencies, and not opening up their wallet when the plan falls apart. It'll be interesting to see if the CTA cuts through it and finds the truth.


How can you write such B/S ?

Did you read the letter ?

The flights were not delayed for lack of air stairs.
The flights were not delayed for lack of rampies.
The flights were not delayed for lack of gates.
The flights were not delayed for lack of catering.

They were delayed for lack of fuel. Fuel, fuel and only fuel. The pilots were calling for fuel over the radio. Air Transat was asking for fuel over the phone.

They were delayed because several Air Canada flights, several Rouge flights, one KLM, one Air France and one Emirates, most of which landed after the first three Air Transat aircraft to arrive at YOW, were refueled before the three Transat aircraft and departed while the Transat aircraft were still waiting on their fuel.

The only question to be asked is WHY were all other aircraft refueled before the three Air Transat flights while these were relegated to the de-icing bay.

The Air Stair became a necessity for that one aircraft after its APU quit due to fuel starvation 4 or 5 hours after landing. To open the doors on an aircraft whose floor is 4 meters from the ground, one need to have air stairs installed, so people don't fall out and kill themselves. But right until the APU quit, the flight was being told the fuel would be right over. It arrived just after the APU quit......


Looking at the AT response, certainly seems that they have the timelines nailed down- from their prospective but hey, they have the right to defend themselves. Probably all blow over and forgotten about in short order, AT will survive.

I never had the pleasure of flying with your airline but my young fella did, twice actually to European destinations. Talked to him other night(wonders of FaceTime) and his experiences were very positive, no problems, great service, good price and would fly AT again for sure and indeed. Also a good acquaintance of ours booked an AT European vacation package couple of years back again a very positive experience for them and I believe they are doing it again. I heard a lot more positive than negative on AT experiencies from a friends travel agent so leads me to believe AT offers a very good product. Having said that, the YOW incident is serious and no doubt AT has learned from it.

By your leave.



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:07 am 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:34 am
Posts: 1968
Location: Canada
Gilles,

Does your FCOM require air stairs to be placed next to the aircraft exit when fuelling, away from a bridge?



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:49 pm 
Offline
Rank 7
Rank 7

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:34 pm
Posts: 513
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
digits_ wrote:
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:

Okay, so that makes it ok to have pax wait for 6 hours in the plane? It sucks that they got jumped in the fuel line, but that doesn't mean they have a wildcard to just not care about the passengers. After 1.5 hours it might have been time to work on alternatives (stairs, gates, catering, .. )


Most of the 20 that diverted to YOW that day were on the ground at least 3 hours. One Air Canada flight was in YOW 5 hours and 6 minutes.

Care to comment on them ?


No Air Canada passengers called 911 I suppose. I haven't read any comments from Air Canada employees dumping all over Air Transat here, I'm not sure why you feel the need to deflect this onto AC, they get their own share of bad PR. Most of us can relate to circumstances where all the radio calls and PA's don't get you anywhere on the ramp. Trying to push a rope is the best analogy I've heard for these situations.



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:41 am 
Online
Rank 6
Rank 6

Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 448
photofly wrote:
If you read paragraph 2 it refers only to aircraft being serviced, which this one wasn't.


Just to review what paragraph 2 says:-

Quote:
2. Destroying an aircraft being serviced or damaging such an aircraft in such a way that renders it incapable of flight or which is likely to endanger its safety in flight;


The key word is 'or' followed by more specifics.

My use of bold text is to clarify the consequences of blowing a slide - which some people seem to think is justified.

Having watched the evacuation of a 747 on a taxiway in which one passenger died and others were seriously injured - this is the very last option that should ever be used to de-plane passengers imho. I am also aware of crew members injured during slide training.


digits_ wrote:
If the information in the media is correct, their tariff said passengers have to be deplaned after 1.5 hours. The conditions go both ways.


It misses the part where it can only be done if the Captain agrees to it.

As Captain I would not agree if I had been informed the re-fuelling was about to take place.

You seem to be missing the most important point - this wasn't done intentionally.


_________________
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:16 am 
Offline
Rank 6
Rank 6

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:31 am
Posts: 497
Once the 90 minutes had passed and passengers were not given the option to get off then it became intentional. The whole reason the 90 minutes was added to the tariff was to prevent something just like this. At some point BEFORE the fuel ran out the pilots/company should have let the passengers off.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:35 am 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Posts: 5823
Location: Part of the "me, me, me" crowd, and loving every second of it.
Eric Janson wrote:
...

The aircraft wasn't "such" an aircraft as it wasn't being serviced, so your charge fails at the first test. Do I (personally) care if the aircraft is disabled or not? Couldn't care less at that point - because I'm leaving it.

And, I'm not advocating the whole aircraft to evacuate via a slide. Just me. I'm not responsible for how and whether everyone else gets off, that's your job. To the extent that you're not able to look after my comfort and safety, then I will. Everyone else can make up their own minds about whether they want to stay on board or not, and act accordingly.

As for whether it's deliberate or not - if you're incompetent at keeping me safe and comfortable I don't really give a damn if it's because you can't or just won't. Impotent or malicious, it's all the same to me.


_________________
Control the horizon, control the airplane


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:13 am 
Online
Rank 6
Rank 6

Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 448
photofly wrote:
The aircraft wasn't "such" an aircraft as it wasn't being serviced, so your charge fails at the first test. Do I (personally) care if the aircraft is disabled or not? Couldn't care less at that point - because I'm leaving it.

And, I'm not advocating the whole aircraft to evacuate via a slide. Just me. I'm not responsible for how and whether everyone else gets off, that's your job. To the extent that you're not able to look after my comfort and safety, then I will. Everyone else can make up their own minds about whether they want to stay on board or not, and act accordingly.

As for whether it's deliberate or not - if you're incompetent at keeping me safe and comfortable I don't really give a damn if it's because you can't or just won't. Impotent or malicious, it's all the same to me.


I'm not a legal expert but it seems to me that paragraph 2 refers to a parked aircraft with engines shut down.

As for the rest of your post - a nice example of the current state of our society. The wonderful results of Post Modernism and Cultural Marxism.

I've heard it referred to as The New Age of Narcissism - very apt description.

In your example your actions would result in problems for everybody else. But it's all about you.

I would suggest your fellow passengers would also be able to bring charges against you in this situation - even if the Airline declines to prosecute.

As if my job isn't already difficult enough.


_________________
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:09 am 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Posts: 5823
Location: Part of the "me, me, me" crowd, and loving every second of it.
Eric Janson wrote:
I'm not a legal expert but it seems to me that paragraph 2 refers to a parked aircraft with engines shut down.

It's clear it refers to an airplane undergoing maintenance. Not one with passengers on board whose engines are shut down because the crew ran the tanks dry.

Quote:
As for the rest of your post - a nice example of the current state of our society.

Actually it's an example of nothing other than my projected state of mind after six stationary hours in a 32" seat, the last part of which with no water, air conditioning or toilets. By that stage, I don't think I'm going to care what you think of me or society, or anything much all. I'm sorry you don't get that.

Quote:
As if my job isn't already difficult enough.

It's not my role to make your job easy. It's your job to make my travel experience easy.


_________________
Control the horizon, control the airplane


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:07 pm 
Offline
Rank 4
Rank 4

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am
Posts: 232
It's quite obvious that many of you have no idea what international operations are like and have never been in a situation like this, it's not fun. Things are never as black and white and when faced with a plane full of pax at your alternate and the possibility of duty being exceeded. The best place to have those pax is usually on the plane ready to head to the final destination. I'm not saying to keep pax in an airplane at any cost but when you keep being told you will be able to leave soon the prospect of unloading the pax, having them clear customs and ALL come back to board and not have to pull bags (a nightmare at best) and do head counts and figure out who decided to switch seats... you get the picture (some of you do).

Sure pull a slide, have you ever been down one? I have, an old slide that was worn out and slow compared to a fleshly popped one and it was a ride! This is the worse way to exit an aircraft and for emergencies only. Nobody in their right mind opens an aircraft door without being authorized.

As captain you can call it quits anytime you feel justified to do so but be ready to explain yourself after. You will also have to wait for someone to come replace you. That can be a while when out of base and nobody there to take over for you.

As much as we bitch about the media not getting things right on aviation, I have to say the worse critics are other pilots with even less info than the media.

We might not always get it right at Air Transat but I'm still very proud to work there!



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:55 pm 
Online
Rank 4
Rank 4
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm
Posts: 299
TFTMB heavy wrote:
It's quite obvious that many of you have no idea what international operations are like and have never been in a situation like this, it's not fun. Things are never as black and white and when faced with a plane full of pax at your alternate and the possibility of duty being exceeded. The best place to have those pax is usually on the plane ready to head to the final destination. I'm not saying to keep pax in an airplane at any cost but when you keep being told you will be able to leave soon the prospect of unloading the pax, having them clear customs and ALL come back to board and not have to pull bags (a nightmare at best) and do head counts and figure out who decided to switch seats... you get the picture (some of you do).

Sure pull a slide, have you ever been down one? I have, an old slide that was worn out and slow compared to a fleshly popped one and it was a ride! This is the worse way to exit an aircraft and for emergencies only. Nobody in their right mind opens an aircraft door without being authorized.

As captain you can call it quits anytime you feel justified to do so but be ready to explain yourself after. You will also have to wait for someone to come replace you. That can be a while when out of base and nobody there to take over for you.

As much as we bitch about the media not getting things right on aviation, I have to say the worse critics are other pilots with even less info than the media.

We might not always get it right at Air Transat but I'm still very proud to work there!


All reasonable comments to me, TFT.

One question then: Over and above delays and fuel, YOW says water / food service was offered to the aircraft. Why at least didn't they accept this offer?

Do you personally agree with that decision, per your statement you're proud to work for AT?



Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Air Transat YOW
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:47 pm 
Offline
Rank 4
Rank 4

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am
Posts: 232
rookiepilot wrote:
TFTMB heavy wrote:
It's quite obvious that many of you have no idea what international operations are like and have never been in a situation like this, it's not fun. Things are never as black and white and when faced with a plane full of pax at your alternate and the possibility of duty being exceeded. The best place to have those pax is usually on the plane ready to head to the final destination. I'm not saying to keep pax in an airplane at any cost but when you keep being told you will be able to leave soon the prospect of unloading the pax, having them clear customs and ALL come back to board and not have to pull bags (a nightmare at best) and do head counts and figure out who decided to switch seats... you get the picture (some of you do).

Sure pull a slide, have you ever been down one? I have, an old slide that was worn out and slow compared to a fleshly popped one and it was a ride! This is the worse way to exit an aircraft and for emergencies only. Nobody in their right mind opens an aircraft door without being authorized.

As captain you can call it quits anytime you feel justified to do so but be ready to explain yourself after. You will also have to wait for someone to come replace you. That can be a while when out of base and nobody there to take over for you.

As much as we bitch about the media not getting things right on aviation, I have to say the worse critics are other pilots with even less info than the media.

We might not always get it right at Air Transat but I'm still very proud to work there!


All reasonable comments to me, TFT.

One question then: Over and above delays and fuel, YOW says water / food service was offered to the aircraft. Why at least didn't they accept this offer?

Do you personally agree with that decision, per your statement you're proud to work for AT?


I wasn't there so I can't comment on wether it was offered or even available for that matter.

What I think is that everyone is in ass covering mode because this will likely end up in court one way or another.

Whether Air Transat is at fault or not it doesn't change the fact that I am proud to work there. Air Transat, part of group Transat, has been around for 30 years taking people on holidays as a charter operator. The longest standing charter operator in Canada, they've survived many others and are still around, must be doing something right!



Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 213 posts ]  Go to page Previous 13 4 5 6 79 Next

All times are UTC-07:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], FL410, nopilot, skypirate88 and 39 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]

For questions/comments please send them to
avcanada@gmail.com


AvCanada Topsites List
AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com Avitop.com

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. If you feel a topic or post is inappropriate email us at avcanada@gmail.com .  By reading these forums you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable. This website is not responsible or liable in any way for any false or misleading messages or job ads placed at our site. 

Use AvCanada's information at your own risk!

We reserve the right to remove any messages that we deem unacceptable.
When you post a message, your IP is logged and may be provided to concerned parties where unethical or illegal behavior is apparent. All rights reserved.