Air Transat vs Air Canada

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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by Level Change »

confusedalot wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:31 pm
For the young ones out there, I say again, 100% job security, they will be always bailed out, too big to fail.

Hail big red.

Just curious, many people seem to claim or make reference to an Air Canada bail out. When exactly did this ever happen?
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by atphat »

confusedalot wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:31 pm
AC personnel have once again proven beyond a reasonable doubt that if you do not wave the red flag, you are doomed no matter what path you choose.
I don't think that's true at all. AC isn't perfect. But if your a Canadian aviator looking to work and stay in Canada you won't find a better gig. Peroid. Is it wrong to say that? I'm talking total package over a career. Does that make AC pilots arrogant? I'm not saying Transat, Sunwing, Flair, or WJ are bad jobs. I'm just saying AC is better. Probably quite a bit better when you measure all the things one would measure comparing careers at each company.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by complexintentions »

I have a couple of good friends who've been at AC a long time. Good guys, have a good job and career. But I have to say that most of the AC guys I've ever met are pretty clueless about the world outside of their little bubble. I remember sitting next to an AC B777 FO in Y on an AC flight heading to Canada one year. 50's (maybe 40's and looked older?) so 15 or 20 years older than myself I'd guess. He was deadheading and spent most of the flight bitching about how he had been "screwed" out of his seat in J for the flight (was Christmas and flight was packed). How hard his life was, having to commute from his home in YLW to his sailboat moored in YVR while on reserve, doing his 3 flights a month or whatever.

When the conversation finally turned to a topic other than himself, he asked what I did and I mentioned I also flew the B777, for Emirates at the time. And his question was "Emirates? Where do they fly?". I just looked at him, dumbfounded. I was amused, and amazed. Really?

Just no clue about the world outside his own. And I knew I never, ever wanted to be that guy. I sometimes wonder if he's still an FO, still complaining about his hard life, putting in time until his seniority gave him whatever it was he felt was making him so unhappy.

Seniority is an attempt to impose fairness on the system, I get it. A necessary evil, perhaps. But it sure kills a lot of people's souls. So much for merit or motivation or morale. Union job, union mentality. I'll trade "security" for something that doesn't lobotomize me, every time.

But that's just me. :mrgreen:
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by atphat »

I'm glad you're happy. I'll follow up by saying who cares?? This is the thread about working for Canadian carriers. Why do ex-pats drone on about the same old again and again?
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by Alcoholism »

atphat wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:43 pm I'm glad you're happy. I'll follow up by saying who cares?? This is the thread about working for Canadian carriers. Why do ex-pats drone on about the same old again and again?
Did you just glance at his post and saw the word Emirates and think highly of yourself to post that or did you actually read the part about the hard done by guy at AC? Perhaps it was you? Here, let me pop your bubble for a moment. Title of thread reads Air Transat vs Air Canada. Snowflake avatar guy was merely pointing out how not everyone at AC is happy, like you previously pointed out, not perfect. And if you work at AC, then snowflake guy has hit the nail on the head about you bubble boys at AC.... which is a Canadian carrier... like the title... of this thread.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by Level Change »

Actually I agree with what complexintentions had to say. We do have "those" guys at AC and at times, I feel like saying "if you really think it is that bad, the door is right over there". I just don't like being around negative people but who does? The stark reality however is that one man's paradise can be another man's purgatory and every airline or company has their share of "those guys".

About 10 years ago I was in NRT having a beer at the Jet Lag Club with an Emirate A380 crew. The FO was buying rounds and was the happiest guy in the bar. I assumed that maybe he had just finished his upgrade on the 380. The 380 was pretty new at Emirates at the time and his upgrade was likely coming. Nope, he had just been hired by United and was going to be the bottom B737 FO on reserve in EWR! This guy was over the moon happy and I truly felt happy for him. This is not a put down on Emirates, I have friends there and at Etihad who will never come back to Canada and I don't blame them. They are having a great time there. One might ask, why would you go from being a 380 FO with an upgrade on the horizon to the bottom of the list on a 737? Some would think it crazy, others would totally understand.

To try to find sense in why one person may leave AT for AC or vice versa is sort of difficult because it obviously made sense to that person at that time for their personal reasons. Doesn't mean it will make sense in your world.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by confusedalot »

Decades ago, someone told me that new hires are told that they are the best of the best on their fist day of ground school, cannot confirm, so I don't know if that is true of not.

I suspect that there is a groupthink aspect that affect the ''those guys'' portion of the population that leads to a sense of entitlement. Having said that, I also have friends there that are just fine and are class acts. Mixed bag I suppose. :?
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by toolowflaps »

Any update on this subject these days? Heard AT might hire directly at YUL this fall while AC has already hired a lot and mouvement might slow down for the upcoming hires?
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by Tbayer2021 »

Not sure what sort of update you're looking for. AT may hire directly onto YUL this fall, but it's not guaranteed. That being said, new hires that want YUL are getting it within months of being hired. A friend of mine got it shortly after finishing his initial at the start of the year.

Aside from that, everything else is still the same. AC is the place to go if you want the best job security in the country and that last dollar. There is slightly more variety at AC given that they have a more varied fleet. But the flying is quite varied at AT as well and will probably get even more so with the arrivals of the XLR. One can only assume that this bird will open up more destinations. As far as lifestyle goes, generally speaking, AT takes the cake more often than not. Sure if you happen to be very senior on your fleet at AC you may have a better schedule, but we all know thats not the case for the majority of pilots.

To give you an idea, I as a 1st year AT pilot have a much better schedule than my friends with 5+ years of seniority at AC. Most of those friends are even staying on the right seat longer to enjoy a better schedule vs being a junior NB captain.

Ultimately, the right choice for you may not be the right choice for everyone else. You're the only one that knows whats important to you and thats what you need to prioritize. Whats the point at being with any employer if you're going to be miserable? Whether that's AC, AT, or any of the other airlines.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by Babar350 »

Now they need to take care of this expensive benefits premium we're paying.
Because of that, we have less take-home pay when starting than AC.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by smooth »

I really wanted to apply AT before the covid, I've heard it's a great company to work for, but after looking into their financial report. They have been losing money even before the covid. It doesn't give me a sense of job security in the long term.

Air Canada, on another hand, has A220/321/330 B737/767F/787/777, variety of life style and job security. It's the only legacy airlines, full scale airliner in Canada. Although starting pay is lower and 4 year flat pay. In the long term it's a much better airline to work for if you're under 40.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by TFTMB heavy »

smooth wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:25 am I really wanted to apply AT before the covid, I've heard it's a great company to work for, but after looking into their financial report. They have been losing money even before the covid. It doesn't give me a sense of job security in the long term.

Air Canada, on another hand, has A220/321/330 B737/767F/787/777, variety of life style and job security. It's the only legacy airlines, full scale airliner in Canada. Although starting pay is lower and 4 year flat pay. In the long term it's a much better airline to work for if you're under 40.
How are the profits at AC these last few quarters?
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by khedrei »

AFAIK last quarter was the first quarter AC has posted a profit since covid.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by garfield »

Do you know your schedule before the start of the next block at TS?
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by TFTMB heavy »

garfield wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:38 pm Do you know your schedule before the start of the next block at TS?
Bid closes on the 21st at noon and schedules are out by 1700 on the 23rd.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by TFTMB heavy »

khedrei wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:30 pm AFAIK last quarter was the first quarter AC has posted a profit since covid.
They went 11 straight quarters with a loss.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by flying4dollars »

TFTMB heavy wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:40 pm
khedrei wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:30 pm AFAIK last quarter was the first quarter AC has posted a profit since covid.
They went 11 straight quarters with a loss.
That isn't concerning to me. If you look at the trend, the losses have been significantly reduced each quarter. I don't know what impact the delays and cancellations will have on the upcoming Q but I suspect the company will be back in the black very shortly. The upward trend since 2021 has been promising.

Nobody who has come here in the last year will see all 4 years of flat pay because it WILL be extinct in the near future. Not only that, but pilots are currently holding left seat within their first year here (I was almost one of them after only 9 months here but got bumped before bid close). The schedule and QoL at Transat might be better in the beginning, but the career progression, variety and job security will always be AC's flex over everyone else in this country.

Also FWIW while it is based on equipment, position and base, I got pretty much exactly what I bid for this month. So QoL can definitely vary based on the 3 aforementioned factors.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by DanWEC »

There's no competition for the schedule and lifestyle at Transat. Undeniably that's the biggest pro. All long/medium haul so block is filled quickly. If you're on the 330 you'll work maybe 14 days in the peak of the summer, 10-12 in the winter, and maybe 5-8 in the shoulders. Only ever 1 leg a day or 2 if it's a turn. 321 has approx 1-2 more days on average through winter. There are flights avail to pick up if you want to work more.
With 700 pilots you eventually get to know everyone and pretty soon you're just flying with your friends and going out after.
The accumulation of constant overnight crossings can be extremely fatiguing however, so I don't think anyone could do much more that what's scheduled in the summer without starting to book off to recover.
And then there's the DH'ing around Europe on the day off...

But besides the requisite bitching that we can all do, the only real negative right now is the take-home pay. It desperately needs to change if the company wants to keep butts to fill the growing seats, Other than that, man, it's a fantastic job. Just a different set of pros and cons compared to AC- pick what suits your life and goals.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by khedrei »

flying4dollars wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:30 pm
TFTMB heavy wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:40 pm
khedrei wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:30 pm AFAIK last quarter was the first quarter AC has posted a profit since covid.
They went 11 straight quarters with a loss.
That isn't concerning to me. If you look at the trend, the losses have been significantly reduced each quarter. I don't know what impact the delays and cancellations will have on the upcoming Q but I suspect the company will be back in the black very shortly. The upward trend since 2021 has been promising.

Nobody who has come here in the last year will see all 4 years of flat pay because it WILL be extinct in the near future. Not only that, but pilots are currently holding left seat within their first year here (I was almost one of them after only 9 months here but got bumped before bid close). The schedule and QoL at Transat might be better in the beginning, but the career progression, variety and job security will always be AC's flex over everyone else in this country.

Also FWIW while it is based on equipment, position and base, I got pretty much exactly what I bid for this month. So QoL can definitely vary based on the 3 aforementioned factors.
To clarify, when you say hold left seat, are you saying you can upgrade within a year? I heard it was closer to 5 years.
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Re: Air Transat vs Air Canada

Post by flying4dollars »

khedrei wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 7:35 pm
flying4dollars wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:30 pm
TFTMB heavy wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:40 pm

They went 11 straight quarters with a loss.
That isn't concerning to me. If you look at the trend, the losses have been significantly reduced each quarter. I don't know what impact the delays and cancellations will have on the upcoming Q but I suspect the company will be back in the black very shortly. The upward trend since 2021 has been promising.

Nobody who has come here in the last year will see all 4 years of flat pay because it WILL be extinct in the near future. Not only that, but pilots are currently holding left seat within their first year here (I was almost one of them after only 9 months here but got bumped before bid close). The schedule and QoL at Transat might be better in the beginning, but the career progression, variety and job security will always be AC's flex over everyone else in this country.

Also FWIW while it is based on equipment, position and base, I got pretty much exactly what I bid for this month. So QoL can definitely vary based on the 3 aforementioned factors.
To clarify, when you say hold left seat, are you saying you can upgrade within a year? I heard it was closer to 5 years.
Correct. One could hold the left seat at around the 1 year mark. That is ever changing and may be longer for a new hire today, but certainly not 5 years in the current environment.
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