Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

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landsky
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Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by landsky »

Is deadheading to work which is required by your company counted as duty time? I have two 13 hour shifts followed by a 12 hour deadhead required by my company to travel to another base and then work again the next day. To me that is three 12+ hour duty days. Do I require 24 hours off after doing these three shifts?

Flight Duty Time Limitations and Rest Periods

700.16 (1) Subject to subsections (5) and (7), no air operator shall assign a flight crew member for flight duty time, and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment, if the flight crew member’s flight duty time will, as a result, exceed 14 consecutive hours in any 24 consecutive hours. Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 using an aircraft other than a helicopter, flight duty time shall include 15 minutes for post-flight duties.

(2) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 using an aircraft other than a helicopter or a DeHavilland DHC-6 aircraft pursuant to the Commercial Air Service Standards, a flight crew member shall receive at least 24 consecutive hours free from flight duty following 3 consecutive flight duty time assignments that exceed 12 consecutive hours unless the flight crew member has received at least 24 consecutive hours free from flight duty between each flight duty time assignment.

So is deadheading to work required by your company considered flight duty time?

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digits_
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by digits_ »

I think it is stupid, but it isn't flight duty time.
You are however working, so it doesn't count as rest, or as a day off or anything like that. It's like you would be working in the office or cleaning planes.

You are also allowed to deadhead after 14 hours of working, thus indicating that deadheading is not flight duty time.
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indieadventurer
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by indieadventurer »

Deadhead before operating is included in duty day calculation.
Deadhead after operating isn't included in duty day calculation but the period deadheading doesn't count as rest.
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landsky
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by landsky »

indieadventurer wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:24 am Deadhead before operating is included in duty day calculation.
Deadhead after operating isn't included in duty day calculation but the period deadheading doesn't count as rest.
What if I deadhead in the day prior and do not operate. If my deadhead alone is 12+ hours the day prior does that count as a regular duty day? Would that day be included in the "three consecutive 12+ hour duty day must have 24 hours off" rule ?

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rudder
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by rudder »

Note that the CAR’s references refer to ‘Flight Duty’. If the duty period does not include flight duty then it does not count towards flight duty limits. However, as mentioned above non-Flight duty time does not count towards rest requirements.

Also referenced above, there are many operators where a DH is planned AFTER flight duty. In this case, there are no CAR’s restrictions as to the length of the duty period that extends AFTER post flight duties are complete. The FDP includes duty prior to flight, flight, and post flight duties that are flight related.
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digits_
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by digits_ »

rudder wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:46 am and post flight duties that are flight related.
Not correct. It ends at engine shutdown for 703 and 15 minutes after engine shutdown for 704/705 ops. Even if you spend 2 hours doing paperwork or 0 minutes.
flight duty time means the period that starts when a flight crew member reports for a flight, or reports as a flight crew member on standby, and finishes at engines off or rotors stopped at the end of the final flight, except in the case of a flight conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 of Part VII, in which case the period finishes 15 minutes after engines off or rotors stopped at the end of the final flight, and includes the time required to complete any duties assigned by the air operator or private operator or delegated by the Minister prior to the reporting time and includes the time required to complete aircraft maintenance engineer duties prior to or following a flight; (temps de service de vol)
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by goingnowherefast »

Deadheading to work counts, but deadheading home from work is covered under 700.20
Where a flight crew member is required by an air operator to travel for the purpose of positioning after the completion of flight duty time, the air operator shall provide the flight crew member with an additional rest period at least equal to one-half the time spent travelling that is in excess of the flight crew member’s maximum flight duty time.
CAR 101.01 covers additional duties assigned by the operator prior to reporting. I would argue deadheading to work is additional duties assigned by the air operator. That's how my company treats it too.
flight duty time means the period that starts when a flight crew member reports for a flight, or reports as a flight crew member on standby, and finishes at engines off or rotors stopped at the end of the final flight, except in the case of a flight conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 of Part VII, in which case the period finishes 15 minutes after engines off or rotors stopped at the end of the final flight, and includes the time required to complete any duties assigned by the air operator or private operator or delegated by the Minister prior to the reporting time and includes the time required to complete aircraft maintenance engineer duties prior to or following a flight; (temps de service de vol)
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ikarus
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by ikarus »

Sorry, old tipic but I gotta ask..

Say you do a duty from 1230 and after 4 legs you finish at 00:00 (including 30min post flt duty).

Company wants you to deadhead to home base on a 05am flight the next day. Is this legal, because I know DH after work doesn't count, but still.. Going to a hotel that night for 4hr and getting up after is a bit heavy for me.
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fish4life
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by fish4life »

ikarus wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:15 am Sorry, old tipic but I gotta ask..

Say you do a duty from 1230 and after 4 legs you finish at 00:00 (including 30min post flt duty).

Company wants you to deadhead to home base on a 05am flight the next day. Is this legal, because I know DH after work doesn't count, but still.. Going to a hotel that night for 4hr and getting up after is a bit heavy for me.
The rules quoted in the previous discussions under this topic are from the old duty regs.

Search the CARS for positioning and you will find your Answer since I don’t know what subpart you work under. Fatigue is fatigue as well and if you are too exhausted after you get home from this is just say no I’m fatigued before the DH
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ikarus
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by ikarus »

Thanks, I'm talking about airline ops..
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Deadheading, Flight Duty Time?

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

ikarus wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:55 am Thanks, I'm talking about airline ops..
Max flight duty periods do not include DH legs if included after flying. But does count toward FDP if DH is prior to flight duty.

I know for a fact they need to increase your rest period by any excess of your FDP. Rest = Min rest + fdp exceed.

I haven’t reviewed the CARs regarding this, but I think things get a little different past 17 hours (FDP + DH). It doesn’t really happen where I work so I’m not well versed.
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