Professionalism

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infiniteregulus
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Professionalism

Post by infiniteregulus » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:21 pm

Anyone else start noticing a trend in uniformed crew wearing big unsightly music headphones at the gates while waiting for their flights (operating or commuting) with feet up in the air like some a punk. It looks TERRIBLE! And don't get me started on the bright red backpacks :lol:
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flyzam
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Re: Professionalism

Post by flyzam » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:33 pm

The airlines get what they pay for.
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timeflies
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Re: Professionalism

Post by timeflies » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:02 pm

flyzam wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:33 pm
The airlines get what they pay for.
+100000.
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av8ts
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Re: Professionalism

Post by av8ts » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:01 pm

flyzam wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:33 pm
The airlines get what they pay for.
Bullshit. You knew what the pay was when you applied for the job. You agreed to be a professional so either be one or go get a job as a janitor where you can wear you headphones all night
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Re: Professionalism

Post by eyebrow737 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:13 pm

av8ts wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:01 pm
flyzam wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:33 pm
The airlines get what they pay for.
Bullshit. You knew what the pay was when you applied for the job. You agreed to be a professional so either be one or go get a job as a janitor where you can wear you headphones all night
Ironically,I think he was agreeing with the original poster. No doubt he was referring to one of the express partners or smaller airlines. I doubt that mainline would tolerate that behavior.

I would also align the word professionalism with the ability to not swear in public forum amongst other traits.
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digits_
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Re: Professionalism

Post by digits_ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:32 pm

infiniteregulus wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:21 pm
Anyone else start noticing a trend in uniformed crew wearing big unsightly music headphones at the gates while waiting for their flights (operating or commuting) with feet up in the air like some a punk. It looks TERRIBLE! And don't get me started on the bright red backpacks :lol:
Or all those westjet pilots grooming the planes :twisted:
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AvifiskAlly
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Re: Professionalism

Post by AvifiskAlly » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:39 pm

eyebrow737 wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:13 pm
av8ts wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:01 pm
flyzam wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:33 pm
The airlines get what they pay for.
Bullshit. You knew what the pay was when you applied for the job. You agreed to be a professional so either be one or go get a job as a janitor where you can wear you headphones all night
Ironically,I think he was agreeing with the original poster. No doubt he was referring to one of the express partners or smaller airlines. I doubt that mainline would tolerate that behavior.

I would also align the word professionalism with the ability to not swear in public forum amongst other traits.

Moron quote of the year. Wow. Really
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ant_321
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Re: Professionalism

Post by ant_321 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:44 pm

digits_ wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:32 pm
infiniteregulus wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:21 pm
Anyone else start noticing a trend in uniformed crew wearing big unsightly music headphones at the gates while waiting for their flights (operating or commuting) with feet up in the air like some a punk. It looks TERRIBLE! And don't get me started on the bright red backpacks :lol:
Or all those westjet pilots grooming the planes :twisted:
+1

You can't get more unprofessional looking than a pilot wearing blue latex gloves taking snotty tissues out of a seat back.
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Re: Professionalism

Post by confusedalot » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:54 pm

so, ghettoblaster headsets and combat boots on the furniture are the new normal? sorry, I am an old guy, actually not that old at 59, who does not get it. neither do the traveling public.
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Re: Professionalism

Post by infiniteregulus » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:02 pm

It was indeed an express carrier to which I last witnessed. Well actually the majority of those I've noticed. Handlebar moustaches, raggedy un-ironed shirts, black Walmart running shoes, walking up to gate agents in the middle of boarding to ask for loads...like come on folks! But in the end, the general public don't discern the difference between express or mainline pilots. They look all the same to them. And really that goes to all of us as a whole :|
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Re: Professionalism

Post by AvifiskAlly » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:53 pm

infiniteregulus wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:02 pm
It was indeed an express carrier to which I last witnessed. Well actually the majority of those I've noticed. Handlebar moustaches, raggedy un-ironed shirts, black Walmart running shoes, walking up to gate agents in the middle of boarding to ask for loads...like come on folks! But in the end, the general public don't discern the difference between express or mainline pilots. They look all the same to them. And really that goes to all of us as a whole :|
I saw 4 main line pilots playing a game on 1 iPhone while I wrote my last post. That won’t last with the new VP. Let’s all have some respect for the profession. We need to train that in the sim ;)
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Impact
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Re: Professionalism

Post by Impact » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:39 pm

I'm glad to see this thread. Even if it's been discussed multiple times in the past, it absolutely needs to be discussed on a regular basis.

One thing of note however (and this is very subjective), is that one can act very professionally even if one is not part of a "profession". Someone referred to a janitor in an earlier comment, to which I say I've seen people act in the most utmost professional manner even in what may be looked upon as the lowliest job.

People who may be part of a so-called "profession" may act unprofessionally, as witnessed by this whole AMEX lounge pass gong-show. Things like that do absolutely nothing to enhance the image of who we are, or who we should strive to be. Personally, I no longer consider piloting to be a "profession". I used to, but those days are long gone.
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Re: Professionalism

Post by infiniteregulus » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:49 pm

Sadly I'd have to agree
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Professionalism

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:47 am

Operators get what they pay for. If FOs have to bank their per diems to make rent and scam lounge food, then maybe you should pay them more.

A lot of these are kids who are just learning to live on their own, and in Canada's most expensive cities. In some cases, still living with mom and dad.

If you want professionals, pay professional wages. If I can make twice as much working elsewhere and don't have to iron my shirt, guess what job I'm going to take.
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Re: Professionalism

Post by Zoo till Two » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:55 am

This thread is a bit over the top. It's not a military we work for. After finishing a long hard pairing and spending time in busy airports where it's a 20 min wait to get a coffee at tims (in Yul at least) it's nice to zone out a bit. If they want to hide us don't deadhead me around everyday or give me 4 hour sits between flights. I agree some people don't care about image as much and need to be reminded once in a while. Yeah yeah the express guys are a joke is what you think. F U buddy. If that bothers you, you seriously need to get a life. Get laid maybe rather than whining here. It's annoying. People like you make this site hard to enjoy rather than learn anything.
PROFFESSIONALISM !!! Good topic you moron.
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Re: Professionalism

Post by timeflies » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:07 am

Zoo till Two wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:55 am
This thread is a bit over the top. It's not a military we work for. After finishing a long hard pairing and spending time in busy airports where it's a 20 min wait to get a coffee at tims (in Yul at least) it's nice to zone out a bit. If they want to hide us don't deadhead me around everyday or give me 4 hour sits between flights. I agree some people don't care about image as much and need to be reminded once in a while. Yeah yeah the express guys are a joke is what you think. F U buddy. If that bothers you, you seriously need to get a life. Get laid maybe rather than whining here. It's annoying. People like you make this site hard to enjoy rather than learn anything.
PROFFESSIONALISM !!! Good topic you moron.
:prayer:
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Re: Professionalism

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:25 am

Zoo till Two wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:55 am
This thread is a bit over the top. It's not a military we work for. After finishing a long hard pairing and spending time in busy airports where it's a 20 min wait to get a coffee at tims (in Yul at least) it's nice to zone out a bit. If they want to hide us don't deadhead me around everyday or give me 4 hour sits between flights. I agree some people don't care about image as much and need to be reminded once in a while. Yeah yeah the express guys are a joke is what you think. F U buddy. If that bothers you, you seriously need to get a life. Get laid maybe rather than whining here. It's annoying. People like you make this site hard to enjoy rather than learn anything.
PROFFESSIONALISM !!! Good topic you moron.
Very professional response hahahahaha
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Re: Professionalism

Post by bcflyer » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:47 am

Zoo till Two wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:55 am
This thread is a bit over the top. It's not a military we work for. After finishing a long hard pairing and spending time in busy airports where it's a 20 min wait to get a coffee at tims (in Yul at least) it's nice to zone out a bit. If they want to hide us don't deadhead me around everyday or give me 4 hour sits between flights. I agree some people don't care about image as much and need to be reminded once in a while. Yeah yeah the express guys are a joke is what you think. F U buddy. If that bothers you, you seriously need to get a life. Get laid maybe rather than whining here. It's annoying. People like you make this site hard to enjoy rather than learn anything.
PROFFESSIONALISM !!! Good topic you moron.
This attitude is one of the many reasons that we as pilots have lost so much respect in Canada. Yes the hours can be long, yes it sucks to be in the public eye for 12-15hrs a day and yes it sucks to deadhead all over the county, however you knew the job when you accepted it. You knew what was expected of you. Don’t like the fact that you are required to meet a certain grooming standard? Go back to the bush where your customers don’t care how you look. The way some pilots dress and act in public is an embarrassment to our profession. Oddly enough they are usually the first to complain about the low pay and poor working conditions. Want better pay and conditions? Then start looking like you deserve them!
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Re: Professionalism

Post by Zoo till Two » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:09 am

My response was a little over the top. I get it. I still manage to have a clean shave everyday and look professional. It's part of the job. Just if you are judging a group of people, you better be perfect yourself.
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Re: Professionalism

Post by digits_ » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:22 am

bcflyer wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:47 am
Want better pay and conditions? Then start looking like you deserve them!
Haven't pilots done that for years? Now there is a "shortage" like never before in recent history, yet pay barely goes up. I can understand the frustration and little rebellion that causes.

A big part of the express carrier brands only took the job because they want to end up at Air Canada. If your entire business model is based on "let's make the pilots work at a company they don't want to be at, for a salary they are not happy with, so that 30% of them can eventually end up at our mainline", then you don't have to be surprised people don't really care about the image of your company.

Another thing, mainly at 703/704 operators: if you expect your pilots to put on wing covers, deice the plane, put on engine tenst and plugs, then don't give them fancy white shirts to wear to pretend you are an airline :lol: :rolleyes:
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Re: Professionalism

Post by Impact » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:09 am

Salary has nothing to do with acting professionally, and having a professional attitude. Appearance is only a (small?) part of that equation.

How you act and carry yourself, even after a 12-13 hr day, is part of what defines you as a professional.
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Re: Professionalism

Post by infiniteregulus » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:12 am

I think it's an important factor to our job as there's a great deal of public trust in what we do. To act like you're in college, being loud and belligerent, (like much of, but not all, the CATSA frat), just looks terrible even if you're not a pilot. There's many times I'm even thinking of professional behaviour on my days off when interacting with someone that knows I'm a pilot. It's a manner of representing your best foot forward on behalf of your profession. A doctor who is a jerk outside of work....word gets around. An astronaut getting drunk in a bar...bye bye space walk. Football player abusing his girlfriend...public outcry. I'm sorry but I actually care about the image we present and when things like pay and respect from management are always being disputed, pilots must hold their end of the deal up too. Chicken or Egg -> Pay or Professional image hahaha.
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rudder
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Re: Professionalism

Post by rudder » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:28 am

If you are wearing the company issued uniform - whether on duty or off duty - you are required to follow the company appearance standards.

Want to relax like you are vacation? Take the uniform off. I have seen poor examples of professional appearance by crew members at both mainline and non-mainline carriers. However, I would call such cases the exception not the rule.

At the end of the day an appearance standard does not mean anything unless it is enforced. Perhaps some carriers take it more seriously than others. Personally I see no legitimate excuses for lack of compliance unless the employer is unable or unwilling to provide the requisite uniform components of reasonable quality. If you want to be treated like a professional you need to look like one and you need to act like one.
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Impact
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Re: Professionalism

Post by Impact » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:24 pm

Infiniteregulus and rudder, spot on. I'd even go so far as to say that having the attitude of "pay me more, and then I'll start acting professionally" is an indicator that they're not only unprofessional, but have very little concept of what the word means (and most probably never will).

Which brings up a good question, for those of you using the "pay me more" angle. For clarity sake, at what salary will you finally start acting like a professional? $50K? $75K? $100K? $200K? I'm curious.
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Re: Professionalism

Post by fish4life » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:32 pm

I think the lack of professionalism can be directly tied to the pilot shortage thread. The guys who never gave an F or didn't care used to get weeded out of the industry long before they got to the airlines but now they are getting on so quick and everyone is hiring so much that anyone can fake it to get in for 6 months.
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