I think you might not fully understand what it means:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ofessional
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Engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.
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I think you might not fully understand what it means:
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Engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.
A few things..infiniteregulus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:12 am I think it's an important factor to our job as there's a great deal of public trust in what we do. To act like you're in college, being loud and belligerent, (like much of, but not all, the CATSA frat), just looks terrible even if you're not a pilot. There's many times I'm even thinking of professional behaviour on my days off when interacting with someone that knows I'm a pilot. It's a manner of representing your best foot forward on behalf of your profession. A doctor who is a jerk outside of work....word gets around. An astronaut getting drunk in a bar...bye bye space walk. Football player
abusing his girlfriend...public outcry. I'm sorry but I actually care about the image we present and when things like pay and respect from management are always being disputed, pilots must hold their end of the deal up too. Chicken or Egg -> Pay or Professional image hahaha.
Thanks. You've just proven my point. Some really don't understand the concept of acting professionally (or "Professionalism"), which is really what this thread is about. If the thread was called "Is flying an aircraft a profession or trade?", then I could see where you're going with your premise. But that's really not the case, is it?digits_ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:40 pmI think you might not fully understand what it means:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ofessionalEven the sloppy dressed pilots are still getting paid and safely flying the plane from A to B, and are thus professionals. Your appearance has more to do with marketing and windowdressing. It might definitely be important to the company, but flying in jeans or wearing ear plugs while waiting for your plane has nothing to do with being a "professional".Code: Select all
Engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.
Impact wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:24 pm Infiniteregulus and rudder, spot on. I'd even go so far as to say that having the attitude of "pay me more, and then I'll start acting professionally" is an indicator that they're not only unprofessional, but have very little concept of what the word means (and most probably never will).
Which brings up a good question, for those of you using the "pay me more" angle. For clarity sake, at what salary will you finally start acting like a professional? $50K? $75K? $100K? $200K? I'm curious.
I’m curious impact, where do you rate being a Scab on the ole professionalism meter, I know where I put it!Impact wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:39 pm I'm glad to see this thread. Even if it's been discussed multiple times in the past, it absolutely needs to be discussed on a regular basis.
One thing of note however (and this is very subjective), is that one can act very professionally even if one is not part of a "profession". Someone referred to a janitor in an earlier comment, to which I say I've seen people act in the most utmost professional manner even in what may be looked upon as the lowliest job.
People who may be part of a so-called "profession" may act unprofessionally, as witnessed by this whole AMEX lounge pass gong-show. Things like that do absolutely nothing to enhance the image of who we are, or who we should strive to be. Personally, I no longer consider piloting to be a "profession". I used to, but those days are long gone.
impact wrote in another thread how he plans to cross the picket line if it comes to that,
As for crossing the picket line, I'm fairly confident that in YYC, there'll be a higher percentage of both Capts AND F/Os that will cross, compared to YYZ and YVR. I'll be one of those that cross the picket line. I won't be doing it with a skip in my step however. I shake my head at the situation in which we find ourselves in. What it boils down to is this: I work for WJ, not ALPA. Some of you may hate that little fact.
Absolutely correct. The other day I flew as a pax on an encore flight and by the time we had landed, taxied into the gate and waited to deplane, the co pilot already had his latex gloves on waiting to go to work. I honestly felt embarrassed for him. It's not a good look. Atleast wait till the plane deboards if you want to be that eager. You're a pilot, not a janitor.ant_321 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:44 pm+1digits_ wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:32 pmOr all those westjet pilots grooming the planesinfiniteregulus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:21 pm Anyone else start noticing a trend in uniformed crew wearing big unsightly music headphones at the gates while waiting for their flights (operating or commuting) with feet up in the air like some a punk. It looks TERRIBLE! And don't get me started on the bright red backpacks
You can't get more unprofessional looking than a pilot wearing blue latex gloves taking snotty tissues out of a seat back.
.....and it could be easily argued that they have.
Since we are discussing professionalism, I think it is extremely important to look at the meaning of the word we are actually discussing. You yourself claimed people don't know what professionalism means, yet you are the one extending the definition to things you deem important.Impact wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:35 pm
Thanks. You've just proven my point. Some really don't understand the concept of acting professionally (or "Professionalism"), which is really what this thread is about. If the thread was called "Is flying an aircraft a profession or trade?", then I could see where you're going with your premise. But that's really not the case, is it?
I'd say it would be normal to see quality differences in products/services that have more than a 10% price difference. If you expect the top of the line behaviour at all times, then pay the salary top of the line people get. Take a look at the Qatar style guides online, they are pretty impressive. If you want to compare to a more local market, the same salary for an FO at jazz as an FO at Air Canada with a smilar job profile would make sense.
Here you go, first result:
Zoo till Two wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:55 am This thread is a bit over the top. It's not a military we work for. After finishing a long hard pairing and spending time in busy airports where it's a 20 min wait to get a coffee at tims (in Yul at least) it's nice to zone out a bit. If they want to hide us don't deadhead me around everyday or give me 4 hour sits between flights. I agree some people don't care about image as much and need to be reminded once in a while. Yeah yeah the express guys are a joke is what you think. F U buddy. If that bothers you, you seriously need to get a life. Get laid maybe rather than whining here. It's annoying. People like you make this site hard to enjoy rather than learn anything.
PROFFESSIONALISM !!! Good topic you moron.
I don't work for those companies, so I don't have exact numbers. I do know the difference is significant, based on second hand information.Impact wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:18 am digits, I invite you to go back and re-read my posts. There you'll find that I'm not focusing solely on appearance. For some reason, you think I am.
So what pay (specific $ value) did you personally think would provide enough incentive for a person to start acting professionally? You mentioned Jazz and AC F/O pay, but since I don't have that data handy, could you provide that number? Why, BTW, can someone working a minimum wage job act in an entirely professional manner?
I noticed that you did indeed google my first example. Good for you! Trouble is, it was a job resources website, and really didn't get into the other aspects of what professionalism is. I encourage you to keep up your research, and expand on more than just one resource.
On another note, I as a customer, want to deal with someone who not only appears to be a professional, but more importantly acts with professionalism, whether it's a trade, a Doctor, or the kid I hire to cut my grass. I think most people do. That's why when you look at reviews on a prospective company you want to hire, the top reviews usually have statements along the lines of "very professional" (or the attributes that define what professionalism looks like). Wouldn't you agree?