SMS Anonymous?

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Rezy
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SMS Anonymous?

Post by Rezy »

All airlines must have some level of safety reporting/SMS. Do you need to have an anonymous reporting system? If so, where is the source material for that?
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7ECA
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by 7ECA »

Just call it a "non-punitive" reporting system - and fire anyone who has the audacity to report anything. :lol:
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Eric Janson
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by Eric Janson »

Normally it will be the job of the safety department to de-identify reports. (remove names etc.)

The problem is that at a smaller company this is almost impossible as it may be very easy to identify the flight and crew involved.

Example:- Unable to coordinate weather deviation immediately after take-off through Ground/Tower during taxi. After departure not switched over and had to make an early turn to avoid flying into a CB. ATC filed a report and asked for the company e-mail. E-mail from Chief Pilot waiting after landing 12 hours later. ASR filed and report made. Never heard another word. Airport changed its procedures.

Example:- Approaching the border of our destination country entry clearance denied as the clearance number was incorrect. Company called via Satcom and correct number requested. Multiple numbers given and rejected. Client advised us via Operations to declare an Emergency and proceed to destination. This was rejected by all 3 Pilots as was a subsequent request to make a Pan call. As soon as we advised that we needed to divert to the only airport that would accept us we were allowed to enter the country and proceed to the destination. ASR filed and report sent.

In both cases it is impossible to keep anything anonymous as everyone already knew what was/had gone on.

I've never heard anything about any go-arounds I've made or fuel I've taken at any company I've worked for. As it should be.
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ahramin
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by ahramin »

I have never heard of an SMS that has a provision for anonymous reports. It would make replies and follow up impossible.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by goingnowherefast »

My company allows for anonymous SMS reports. It does impede the investigation as follow-up questions are difficult to get answers for. I nearly always put my name on them.
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gianthammer
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by gianthammer »

An Anonymous Non Punative reporting system is actually mandated by the SUR-001, that is the guidance document that governs SMS


Draft SMS Doc Review-Software Review-27DEC2015.xlsx
(23.03 KiB) Downloaded 76 times
[attachment=1]SI_SUR-001.pdf
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confusedalot
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by confusedalot »

There is a thread on pprune about all of this. Most do not give positive comments on the system.

The whole sms concept was to implement a non punitive system designed to fix systemic safety issues so that safety issues would not arise again. Instead, and look at the previous posts, we're talking overflight permit numbers??? Has nothing to do with it. Overflight permit mistakes have everything to do with administrative problems and zero to do with actual safety. ( I know I know, some will say the the permit problem leads to a mayday call therefore resulting in a safety problem.........)

As the communists say, ''good idea, does not work''

sms has become a punitive system that actually fixes few if any problems.
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Rezy
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by Rezy »

gianthammer wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:59 pm An Anonymous Non Punative reporting system is actually mandated by the SUR-001, that is the guidance document that governs SMS



Draft SMS Doc Review-Software Review-27DEC2015.xlsx



[attachment=1]SI_SUR-001.pdf
I cant’t open that attached file. Is SI SUR-001 still applicable? I cannot find it on the TC website.
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CD
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by CD »

Rezy wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:03 pm
gianthammer wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:59 pm An Anonymous Non Punative reporting system is actually mandated by the SUR-001, that is the guidance document that governs SMS

Draft SMS Doc Review-Software Review-27DEC2015.xlsx

[attachment=1]SI_SUR-001.pdf
I cant’t open that attached file. Is SI SUR-001 still applicable? I cannot find it on the TC website.

The "SI" in the PDF attachment refers to a Staff Instruction, which is a policy document that is internal to TC and is not available. What is on the TC site is the advisory circular version:

Advisory Circular (AC) No. SUR-004 - Civil Aviation Surveillance Program
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... -2177.html

However, while it does identify a "non-punitive reporting policy" in Appendix A, there is no mention of anonymous. Same with the SI that gianthammer attached, I didn't find the term anonymous in the document.

While I see safety reporting policy is also discussed in the SMS guidance AC, there is also no mention of there being an anonymous requirement:

Advisory Circular (AC) No. 107-001 - Guidance on Safety Management Systems Development
4.6 Safety Reporting Policy
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 54.htm#4.6

Not sure if there might be another document that gianthammer is thinking of.
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Eric Janson
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Re: SMS Anonymous?

Post by Eric Janson »

confusedalot wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:52 pm There is a thread on pprune about all of this. Most do not give positive comments on the system.

The whole sms concept was to implement a non punitive system designed to fix systemic safety issues so that safety issues would not arise again. Instead, and look at the previous posts, we're talking overflight permit numbers??? Has nothing to do with it. Overflight permit mistakes have everything to do with administrative problems and zero to do with actual safety. ( I know I know, some will say the the permit problem leads to a mayday call therefore resulting in a safety problem.........)
Just to clarify.

The safety problem in my example was the client getting involved in operational matters and telling us to declare an Emergency and later to make a Pan call to enable entry requirements to be circumvented. Completely unacceptable. Worst case scenario could have been the aircraft getting shot down. Hence the ASR.

At no point was an Emergency declared or was a Pan call made. A diversion was requested when we reached the minimum diversion fuel. ATC was fully aware of what time this would be and which airport we were going to.
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