Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

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goingnowherefast
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Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:23 am

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-ne ... orkers/amp
A Transport Canada discussion paper distributed at the forum says that “there is heightened competition with other sectors that offer higher wages, as well as a lack of visibility for careers in the aviation industry due to limited post-secondary institutions offering aviation programs.
So basically not many people know about underpaid aviation jobs.
Flight school costs at least $75,000 to reach an employable level.
It costs a lot of money to be employable and earn that crap pay.
Finally there’s the issue of a schedule that takes pilots away from home for overnights and weekends. The paper notes that “the willingness of prospective pilots to embrace this lifestyle may be diminishing.”
Oh, and on top of your friends making more money, the schedule sucks too!


I blame the pilot shortage squarely on the operators. After paying the high cost of entry there's the often bad/illegal working conditions, terrible pay and a sh!t schedule. Yeah, no thanks. I'll go wrench that PT6 on a pipeline for more than an AME makes.
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dhc#
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by dhc# » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:32 am

As the saying goes...

"Money talks, Bullshit walks"
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digits_
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by digits_ » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:44 am

It's not even just about the money. There are still a significant number of 200 hour pilots that would love to work for any salary for any flying job. While it is improving, it is still quite hard to start out.

If airlines have a structured plan in place to hire and train 200 hour pilots, the pilot shortage would be solved right away.

Or what about all those expat pilots at Cathay and Emirates etc that would love to bring their experience back to Canada and fly for 55k as an FO at AC or a Q400 FO at Encore :?: :roll:
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CAL
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by CAL » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:30 am

can skies magazine tell us what the average is so far for guys living and working in Canada versus overseas?
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GRK2
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by GRK2 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:07 am

Don't need Skies to tell you that. It's more...way more, and almost tax free, and if you live in the pit...it's completely free of tax. They pay for housing and schooling in most places. (Not fun lately it would seem though.) China pays the way they pay for a reason...no one in their right mind WANTS to go and work there for fun. As far as the previous statement about expats coming home to fly for food at AC or whoever? Maybe a small number come back from time to time to have their young ones grow up in Canada, or it's simply time to come back because they've been away for a fairly decent number of years, and they can retire or work part time. But to work at AC for peanuts? Almost all the ones I know who retired from EY or EK or even Cathay are now in the business end of a medium bizz jet, or happily golfing and fishing and getting in the way at home. I don't know any former A380-B777-B787 returning expat Captains who would take that great pay at AC. None, nada, zero.
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FL410AV8R
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by FL410AV8R » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:10 am

GRK2 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:07 am
I don't know any former A380-B777-B787 returning expat Captains who would take that great pay at AC. None, nada, zero.
Apparently there are a few who thought going to Swoop was a good idea.
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GRK2
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by GRK2 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:17 am

FL410AV8R wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:10 am
GRK2 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:07 am
I don't know any former A380-B777-B787 returning expat Captains who would take that great pay at AC. None, nada, zero.
Apparently there are a few who thought going to Swoop was a good idea.
:lol: :roll: :rolleyes: Yeah, that was a great idea right?
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CAL
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by CAL » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:12 am

here in lies the problem.....old boys with a bunch of experience and what they think is enough money to retire on come fly a NG for 100k
always a warm body to fill a seat
there are other reasons why this is happening not just people willing to take 2 nd world pay.....lots of lawyers in Canada...do they all make good money?
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by tbayav8er » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:28 pm

The part in the article that says "new fatigue rules are going to make the pilot shortage worse"....Yeah...the fatigue rules are the problem...right.

There's not a pilot shortage. There's a shortage of pilots willing to work under garbage working conditions.
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nopilot
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by nopilot » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:48 pm

This guy does a lot of aviation related videos. His most recent one.

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goingnowherefast
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:51 pm

The article blames fatigue rules for worsening the shortage and blamed crap schedules for the original shortage. Well ya can't have both. Gotta cut the crap and bite the bullet. Improve the schedules and you might get more pilots.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by rookiepilot » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:15 pm

I'm happy for everyone's wages going up. Even the sweatshop Amazon.

At the risk of thread drift ---
Just don't expect rock bottom mortgage rates to stay there.

One is directly linked to the other.
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by ant_321 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:57 pm

tbayav8er wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:28 pm
The part in the article that says "new fatigue rules are going to make the pilot shortage worse"....Yeah...the fatigue rules are the problem...right.

There's not a pilot shortage. There's a shortage of pilots willing to work under garbage working conditions.
So are you suggesting that there are numerous experienced pilots sitting at home or working in a different industry because of the poor working conditions?
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FL410AV8R
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by FL410AV8R » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:16 pm

ant_321 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:57 pm
tbayav8er wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:28 pm
The part in the article that says "new fatigue rules are going to make the pilot shortage worse"....Yeah...the fatigue rules are the problem...right.

There's not a pilot shortage. There's a shortage of pilots willing to work under garbage working conditions.
So are you suggesting that there are numerous experienced pilots sitting at home or working in a different industry because of the poor working conditions?
I believe what he is saying, as am I is that there is a shortage of individuals willing to pay the high cost of entry for the shit pay and working conditions being offered.
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ant_321
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by ant_321 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:39 pm

FL410AV8R wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:16 pm
ant_321 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:57 pm
tbayav8er wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:28 pm
The part in the article that says "new fatigue rules are going to make the pilot shortage worse"....Yeah...the fatigue rules are the problem...right.

There's not a pilot shortage. There's a shortage of pilots willing to work under garbage working conditions.
So are you suggesting that there are numerous experienced pilots sitting at home or working in a different industry because of the poor working conditions?
I believe what he is saying, as am I is that there is a shortage of individuals willing to pay the high cost of entry for the shit pay and working conditions being offered.
Exactly. And those people aren’t pilots hence the pilot shortage. Nobody is saying there aren’t ways to resolve it.
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by Diadem » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:56 pm

I know quite a few licenced pilots who gave up working in this industry for more lucrative jobs. They're not 30000-hour A380 captains, but they could step back into a cockpit tomorrow if they had medicals; they choose not to, because they can do better elsewhere.
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by FOD_Vacuum » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:34 pm

In Canada, it’s simply very very low pilot pay and very outdated fatigue rules that results in this so called “pilot shortage”. Pay up and offer better schedules with good crew sched that doesn’t @#$! around, then maybe you won’t have half the Canadians go expat. The only ones biting the carrot and going to Encore or Jazz are young parent-subsidized kids or 30 year olds with experience hoping for a quick upgrade because let’s be real, living in a regional FO salary in any hub in Canada is not feasible, especially if you are trying to pay down that rediculous flight training debt. And don’t even think about going near the idea of raising kids on that salary and pay bills in any of those hella expensive cities, unless you have a wife that brings in bank.

There have been several widebody expat Captains joining pasco to fly their retirement days but once they see the work we as Canadians put into the day-to-day flying, they simply say @#$! this I’ve never worked this much in forever and buy out their bonds and hang their hats at home playing golf or whatever.
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Last edited by FOD_Vacuum on Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by FOD_Vacuum » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:34 pm

Double post
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Last edited by FOD_Vacuum on Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by FOD_Vacuum » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:34 pm

triple post 8)
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by GRK2 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:50 pm

" There have been several widebody expat Captains joining pasco to fly their retirement days but once they see the work we as Canadians put into the day-to-day flying, they simply say @#$! this I’ve never worked this much in forever and buy out their bonds and hang their hats at home playing golf or whatever."

Actually it was one expat wide body Captain who joined. He left for the reasons you state, and now sits in a great seat on something waaaaaay better than what those good ole boys at PASCO claim to be serving up.

Not several. But I'm certainly aware of the issues generally stated here. Watching closely as it involves several people close to me. And me...
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by pianokeys » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:26 am

How many pilot shortage articles have come out in the last ten years that never actually touch on the real issue? Piles. Why hasnt any journalist figured it out yet?
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by Victory » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:37 am

Piles? I mean yeah I get the odd hemorrhoid every now and then. I sit on my butt for 8-10 hours a day.
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by co-joe » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:16 pm

pianokeys wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:26 am
How many pilot shortage articles have come out in the last ten years that never actually touch on the real issue? Piles. Why hasnt any journalist figured it out yet?
Because the average airline pilot makes 100+K a year so the industry is all great and amazing, and wonderful.
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by C-GGGQ » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:47 am

co-joe wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:16 pm
pianokeys wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:26 am
How many pilot shortage articles have come out in the last ten years that never actually touch on the real issue? Piles. Why hasnt any journalist figured it out yet?
Because the average airline pilot makes 100+K a year so the industry is all great and amazing, and wonderful.
Man some of us are holding that avg down :lol: Not a shot an any of the guys at the majors, just us low timers scraping by. Finger pointed squarely at myself as well.
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Re: Canada faces severe shortage of pilots and aircraft workers - Ottawa Citizen

Post by pianokeys » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:50 am

co-joe wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:16 pm
pianokeys wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:26 am
How many pilot shortage articles have come out in the last ten years that never actually touch on the real issue? Piles. Why hasnt any journalist figured it out yet?
Because the average airline pilot makes 100+K a year so the industry is all great and amazing, and wonderful.
Valid. No one cares for the 1%!
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