More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

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Flywest
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More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by Flywest » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 am

ATAC and their good friend Dr. Ashley Nunes strike again. Another article against improving flight and duty times masquerading as an oppinion piece.

I’ve been watching his work for awhile. Funny how nothing aimed at improving the safety and working conditions in Canadian aviation....be it Unions or farigue rules..... is ever the correct approach according Dr. Nunes, yet he never offers any suggestions or alternative proposals.

He always manages to slip in just enough misdirection and innuendo in his “opinion” to obfuscate the issues, and sow division amongst the public. This guy should stay south of the border and go work for Trump.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... ir-safety/

If you want to see more, google his work. The stuff he wrote on the Westjet Pilot negotiations is a real treat. The part I find truly frustrating is the fact that both the Globe and the CBC keep publishing his work as gospel.

And they wonder why people talk about fake news.....
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goingnowherefast
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by goingnowherefast » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:30 am

Yet he didn't use the Colgan crash as an example of fatigue in the US...

The 2009 example is before the US changed their fatigue rules. The 2013 example was a cargo flight which is exempted from the US fatigue rules. It also involved mismanaging a rest period, which is a bit different than an operator not providing enough time to rest.
If U.S. regulations – regulations Canadian labour groups want to mimic – are based on sound science, why do fatigue-related incidents and accidents continue to occur?
The author clearly has no idea about how risk management works. Fatigue rules and most other regulations are for reducing and mitigating risk. Accidents will always happen, just at a hopefully ever decreasing rate. If you wanted to remove all risk, then park all the planes and live in a bubble.

The cost is 338million over 15 years, that's pretty cheap. The AC SFO incident would have been into the multibillion dollar range should they have waited just a bit later. Million dollar liability per person, plus 4 airplanes. Then add the moral delima of that many dead people.
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by GRK2 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:55 am

Wow, that has to be the biggest load of crap the Globe has printed in quite a while. How do we stop this very troubling opinion? Is it safe to say the the guy is making shit up? No wonder the general public thinks we're a bunch of prima donnas. I'm Canadian and grew up flying in this country for many years, so I know what it's like. (I now work overseas where duty time actually has a reasonable set of rules, with teeth...mostly.) If the traveling public actually knew how awake their crews were in the middle of that night time Nat Track crossing on their 2 week annual vacation to London, or on the way back from their 1 week all inclusive to Cuba that had the crew starting at 0300, after a 5 hour sleep, after a deadhead into the hotel in YXX, they'd riot. It's long past due and maybe you boys and girls working under the impression that your govt. is taking care of this need to seriously speak up...Writing your MP or sending paper airplanes to the PMO isn't working. They don't care about you. How about shutting down your airlines and companies for a few hours while you hold an information study in front of the cameras? Make a LOT of noise. Seriously you gotta get louder here. Waaaaaay louder...people are gonna die if this keeps up.
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by rookiepilot » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:30 pm

It will get addressed --- after a crew does something similar to the SFO crew, then reacts 10 seconds later.

Too late in other words.

Not before. It's human nature.
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by pianokeys » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:13 am

Nunes, and I refuse to call him Doctor, is a firm believer in the tombstone mentality. I lost all respect for him when he wrote a toilet paper piece about WS and how unions are trying to ruin a "good thing" and spread their influence. Loser.
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by Capt. Underpants » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:05 am

Turning a profit is an admittedly poor reason to ignore pilot fatigue. But legislative efforts to address it – and air safety more broadly – must be driven by the type of science that holds up to scrutiny. Ottawa should invest in cutting-edge research labs, equipment and people in ways that support forming and implementing evidence-based policies. Put another way, when it comes to tackling pilot fatigue, Canada shouldn’t strive to be like America. It should be better.
In this paragraph he is 100% correct. The best fatigue management programs in use today are ones that are using a proper scientific approach - not prescriptive rules - to manage and monitor crew fatigue.

The reality is pilots want prescriptive rules for fatigue because they aren't strong enough to address it themselves. I'm fortunate to work for a company that takes fatigue calls seriously, encourages fatigue reporting and doesn't punish those who come forward.
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by EPR » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:36 pm

If an airline Pilot (AC, WJ, Jazz, Porter, Georgian, Sky...etc) calls in sick or fatigued, do they still get paid for their scheduled day?
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dogfood
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by dogfood » Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:12 am

Yes up to a certain amount of hours usually then you will have your pay reduced. My company is 20 hours of sick pay so approx 4 days
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by Airbrake » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:24 am

EPR wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:36 pm
If an airline Pilot (AC, WJ, Jazz, Porter, Georgian, Sky...etc) calls in sick or fatigued, do they still get paid for their scheduled day?
At WJ it depends.
We have no limit on sick days. So if you call in sick you will be paid it just gets coded differently.
Calling fatigued will start an investigation and what that determines will dictate if you get paid or not. I have known pilots who do get paid and pilots who have not been paid.
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nohojob
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by nohojob » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:05 am

In other word, call in sick ! :-)
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Airbrake
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by Airbrake » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:41 am

nohojob wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:05 am
In other word, call in sick ! :-)
Sadly you are correct.
Our new CBA will address some or all of these I suspect.
Only Mr Kaplan knows for sure though.
Having a non punitive fatigue system supports and encourages pilots to not do exactly what you state. It is similar to a addiction program that is supportive. A supportive one allows the (very few) self disclosures to come forward, the other drives them under ground to only been seen when life gets really unbearable or rules are broken.

Time will tell which programs work the best I guess.
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Re: More public lobbying against improvements to Flight and Duty times.

Post by Lightchop » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:21 am

Airbrake wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:24 am
EPR wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:36 pm
If an airline Pilot (AC, WJ, Jazz, Porter, Georgian, Sky...etc) calls in sick or fatigued, do they still get paid for their scheduled day?
At WJ it depends.
We have no limit on sick days. So if you call in sick you will be paid it just gets coded differently.
Calling fatigued will start an investigation and what that determines will dictate if you get paid or not. I have known pilots who do get paid and pilots who have not been paid.

That's a great way for people to not call in fatigued. At a real airline that has an actual collective agreement, there is still an investigation but you get paid either way and it doesn't come out of your sick bank either. If you call in sick, it doesn't get reported as a fatigue issue and the problem leading up to it remains.

I did it not long ago. All I was asked to do was write an SMS and I haven't heard a peep about it. No fault reporting.
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