CargoJet or Transat?

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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:29 pm

All the millennials I know are broke
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:06 pm

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:29 pm
All the millennials I know are broke
Not all. Debt laden, yes.

S.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by TheStig » Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:08 am

Blame being in your 20's and 30's. Gen X and Y were supposed to be 'the lost' generations, no jobs, huge debts etc. Even the baby boomers who we all know have ruined the world, had debt when they were younger and that was when interests rates were 18%. The sky isn't falling.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by altiplano » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:03 am

I was basically broke until I was in my 40's... but got there with no debt.

The trick is to limit your spending to within your means... that seems the hardest part for people... consumerism... new car payment, latest cel-phone, 500 channels, hobbies, new clothes, eating out, going to the pub, expensive gym membership, vacations... avocado toasts and lattes...
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:27 am

....rent
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:40 am

altiplano wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:03 am
I was basically broke until I was in my 40's... but got there with no debt.

The trick is to limit your spending to within your means... that seems the hardest part for people... consumerism... new car payment, latest cel-phone, 500 channels, hobbies, new clothes, eating out, going to the pub, expensive gym membership, vacations... avocado toasts and lattes...
Mortgage payments....used car repairs and gas for commuting....food to feed 4 mouths....what hobbies, are kids hobbies....new clothes? Thank you christmas....eating out only on the road....basic cable....fit 4 less shared membership with spouse....consumerism, lol....

Most people just want a life and the ability to retire with some dignity.

S.
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160tonoaha
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by 160tonoaha » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:57 am

So how about an AC and CargoJet comparison?

At Face Value

CargoJet Max 16 days Worked
Air Canada 767/777/787 Wide Body Operation No Maximum Days
CargoJet Starts 70k, 2 years to command, start making 133k-220k as of today's collective agreement across 13 years.
Air Canada Starts 50k, 3 or so years to Command, but 15 to wide body command.
6% RRSP Matchin (12% Total) at CargoJet
17% Total DC at AC.
AC Passes at both carriers

When the music stops, will CargoJet be around? Will the bottom quarter of the AC Seniority List? CargoJet is not being competed with at all.

WestJet got destroyed in their 787/737 contract... what leg does Ac have to stand on in the next opener?

Looks to me like Air Canada isn't the only attractive option anymore.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:40 am

160tonoaha wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:57 am
So how about an AC and CargoJet comparison?

At Face Value

CargoJet Max 16 days Worked
Air Canada 767/777/787 Wide Body Operation No Maximum Days
CargoJet Starts 70k, 2 years to command, start making 133k-220k as of today's collective agreement across 13 years.
Air Canada Starts 50k, 3 or so years to Command, but 15 to wide body command.
6% RRSP Matchin (12% Total) at CargoJet
17% Total DC at AC.
AC Passes at both carriers

When the music stops, will CargoJet be around? Will the bottom quarter of the AC Seniority List? CargoJet is not being competed with at all.

WestJet got destroyed in their 787/737 contract... what leg does Ac have to stand on in the next opener?

Looks to me like Air Canada isn't the only attractive option anymore.
The healthcare package provided by AC is pretty phenomenal....DC pension is good too.

Travel bennies, one could take it or leave it. Until you've been jammed up somewhere scrambling to get home through any available hub, they seem pretty cool. Just make enough to buy your own, you may never sit up front, but you'll likely never be stuck somewhere.

Cargojet hiring DECs right now? Word is they are getting 3 more 67s in the spring.

S.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by Boreas » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:47 am

altiplano wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:03 am
I was basically broke until I was in my 40's... but got there with no debt.

The trick is to limit your spending to within your means... that seems the hardest part for people... consumerism... new car payment, latest cel-phone, 500 channels, hobbies, new clothes, eating out, going to the pub, expensive gym membership, vacations... avocado toasts and lattes...
... yes, "channels". And how dare youngins have "hobbies"?
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by daedalusx » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:51 am

Isn't Cargojet a YHM base only? AC at least is commutable from out West.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by 160tonoaha » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:59 am

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:40 am
160tonoaha wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:57 am
So how about an AC and CargoJet comparison?

At Face Value

CargoJet Max 16 days Worked
Air Canada 767/777/787 Wide Body Operation No Maximum Days
CargoJet Starts 70k, 2 years to command, start making 133k-220k as of today's collective agreement across 13 years.
Air Canada Starts 50k, 3 or so years to Command, but 15 to wide body command.
6% RRSP Matchin (12% Total) at CargoJet
17% Total DC at AC.
AC Passes at both carriers

When the music stops, will CargoJet be around? Will the bottom quarter of the AC Seniority List? CargoJet is not being competed with at all.

WestJet got destroyed in their 787/737 contract... what leg does Ac have to stand on in the next opener?

Looks to me like Air Canada isn't the only attractive option anymore.
The healthcare package provided by AC is pretty phenomenal....DC pension is good too.

Travel bennies, one could take it or leave it. Until you've been jammed up somewhere scrambling to get home through any available hub, they seem pretty cool. Just make enough to buy your own, you may never sit up front, but you'll likely never be stuck somewhere.

Cargojet hiring DECs right now? Word is they are getting 3 more 67s in the spring.

S.
CargoJet pays 100% of benefits. Does AC? The CargoJet benefits are pretty decent as well.

Anything else I am not considering?

Honestly a bit nervous to join the BOTL with the state of the economy as is. Cargo, Mail, and Worldwide Parcels have to fly. Passengers don't.

Can someone briefly explain how DC 17% at AC is better than RRSP Matching at 12% Total at CargoJet? Especially since one starts higher at CargoJet and seems to carry higher pay for longer time until you upgrade to 8-9+ formula widebody pay at AC. Aren't both programs about the company matching your income, and putting them into the market for it to grow with you having access to your money at any time? Or can someone explain the difference between the DC at AC and an RRSP matching at CargoJet ? Thanks!
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by munzil » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:06 pm

160tonoaha wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:59 am

Anything else I am not considering?
Honestly a bit nervous to join the BOTL with the state of the economy as is. Cargo, Mail, and Worldwide Parcels have to fly. Passengers don't.
  • The nights are a killer. It affects everyone there, some more than others. The others stay there and the place is like a zombie land at 2am with everyone on automode. You really cannot underestimate the effect lack of sleep has on you.
    Great people though.
  • The Union. Recently managed to pass a contract in the midst of a pilot shortage managed to reduce the requirements to 1500 tt along with adding two days to everyones schedule and giving all the top guys large increases.
  • New regs on flying at nights. Check out the section relating to flying at night without rest. I could be mistaken, but 3 days flying at night, two days off three days on, sounds worse to me for your home life
When a union is the companies best friend.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by 160tonoaha » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:07 pm

munzil wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:06 pm
160tonoaha wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:59 am

Anything else I am not considering?
Honestly a bit nervous to join the BOTL with the state of the economy as is. Cargo, Mail, and Worldwide Parcels have to fly. Passengers don't.
  • The nights are a killer. It affects everyone there, some more than others. The others stay there and the place is like a zombie land at 2am with everyone on automode. You really cannot underestimate the effect lack of sleep has on you.
    Great people though.
  • The Union. Recently managed to pass a contract in the midst of a pilot shortage managed to reduce the requirements to 1500 tt along with adding two days to everyones schedule and giving all the top guys large increases.
  • New regs on flying at nights. Check out the section relating to flying at night without rest. I could be mistaken, but 3 days flying at night, two days off three days on, sounds worse to me for your home life
When a union is the companies best friend.
Thanks Munzil.

Are the nights really that different than any wide body operator? Most AC flights beginning with an 8 in their flight numbers depart between 8PM and Midnight, return the next day on the opposite side of the clock as well. Same goes for Transat. Can it be argued to be the same?

I saw the TA. Looks like First year went from 66 to 70 for FO's. Then to 74 then to 83. then 89... Year 5 you are at 97. Compared to AC that's winner. Same with Transat. What am I missing ?

Is the union the company's friend going forward? Heard there were some shuffles in that end and that someone that actually wants to do the work took over.

Thanks for the info Munzil.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by altiplano » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:38 pm

Boreas wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:47 am
altiplano wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:03 am
I was basically broke until I was in my 40's... but got there with no debt.

The trick is to limit your spending to within your means... that seems the hardest part for people... consumerism... new car payment, latest cel-phone, 500 channels, hobbies, new clothes, eating out, going to the pub, expensive gym membership, vacations... avocado toasts and lattes...
... yes, "channels". And how dare youngins have "hobbies"?
Yeah.... channels are expensive. I still can't afford/justify them. Had the bunny ears for a while... then just gave up on TV... $100/mo+? Nope.

My hobbies are expensive too... I'm not entitled to that shit. I couldn't afford some of them before...

Debt is even more expensive.
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Last edited by altiplano on Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by fish4life » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:07 pm

160tonoaha wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:07 pm
munzil wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:06 pm
160tonoaha wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:59 am

Anything else I am not considering?
Honestly a bit nervous to join the BOTL with the state of the economy as is. Cargo, Mail, and Worldwide Parcels have to fly. Passengers don't.
  • The nights are a killer. It affects everyone there, some more than others. The others stay there and the place is like a zombie land at 2am with everyone on automode. You really cannot underestimate the effect lack of sleep has on you.
    Great people though.
  • The Union. Recently managed to pass a contract in the midst of a pilot shortage managed to reduce the requirements to 1500 tt along with adding two days to everyones schedule and giving all the top guys large increases.
  • New regs on flying at nights. Check out the section relating to flying at night without rest. I could be mistaken, but 3 days flying at night, two days off three days on, sounds worse to me for your home life
When a union is the companies best friend.
Thanks Munzil.

Are the nights really that different than any wide body operator? Most AC flights beginning with an 8 in their flight numbers depart between 8PM and Midnight, return the next day on the opposite side of the clock as well. Same goes for Transat. Can it be argued to be the same?

I saw the TA. Looks like First year went from 66 to 70 for FO's. Then to 74 then to 83. then 89... Year 5 you are at 97. Compared to AC that's winner. Same with Transat. What am I missing ?

Is the union the company's friend going forward? Heard there were some shuffles in that end and that someone that actually wants to do the work took over.

Thanks for the info Munzil.
A lot of AC wide body would be with a relief pilot, I think with the new fatigue rules AT will have to add one as well. AC NB will pay the same if not more than CJ widebody so you can avoid nights if you want at AC. All the guys at KFC probably thought the same thing but CJ can be replaced just as easily as they came in, whereas building an international network like AC’s takes decades. All that being said if you are happy and you enjoy it then stay at CJ because that’s all that counts.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by TSAM » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:47 pm

Transat hands down. It's not all night flights, there is great destinations. It is a great company. Can't say that AJ is the best to work for according to friends there. If a few grand starting out means that much to you, you haven't been in this game long enough.
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Last edited by TSAM on Mon May 20, 2019 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by Yieldermatik » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:47 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:40 am
altiplano wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:03 am
I was basically broke until I was in my 40's... but got there with no debt.

The trick is to limit your spending to within your means... that seems the hardest part for people... consumerism... new car payment, latest cel-phone, 500 channels, hobbies, new clothes, eating out, going to the pub, expensive gym membership, vacations... avocado toasts and lattes...
This one sounds like me lol...no luxuries, just life with kids and a mortgage.

Mortgage payments....used car repairs and gas for commuting....food to feed 4 mouths....what hobbies, are kids hobbies....new clothes? Thank you christmas....eating out only on the road....basic cable....fit 4 less shared membership with spouse....consumerism, lol....

Most people just want a life and the ability to retire with some dignity.

S.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by Anticyclone » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:28 am

Funny, the guys always talk about money, roster, benefits.... did anyone consider the red eyes stuff and it's adverse effects on your health ? and all these big metal birds do it more so for cargo ops obviously, you fight to stay awake every single night of your career, you do 10 years (if you survive it) and you will take 20 years hit on your face.

:idea:
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by faculties11 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:47 pm

Anticyclone wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:28 am
Funny, the guys always talk about money, roster, benefits.... did anyone consider the red eyes stuff and it's adverse effects on your health ? and all these big metal birds do it more so for cargo ops obviously, you fight to stay awake every single night of your career, you do 10 years (if you survive it) and you will take 20 years hit on your face.

:idea:
You'd really have to maintain a strong healthy lifestyle to keep up with it, track your sleep, take measures, etc. I have family who love the graveyard shift outside of aviation. It's hard work but you get used to it.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by Yieldermatik » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:11 pm

I love flying at night, but I do wonder if I ever did it long term how it would affect my health yes. Right now I do a lot of mixed flying, full days then full nights and I feel it.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by skypirate88 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:21 pm

Flying nights for extended periods is very tough. I did it for over 4 years and thought I was doing fine. It wasn't until I took a layoff that I realized how tired I actually was. The fatigue accumulates slowly enough that it becomes your new normal mode of operation.

You really need to live the night shift lifestyle to reduce the impacts. Not always easy with a family and outside obligations.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by ant_321 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:32 pm

Most cargo guys don’t realize just how crappy they feel until they stop doing red eyes. Give them a couple months and they feel like a new person. Same goes for any unnatural sleep schedule. I used to routinely sleep 3-5 hours a night and felt like I was functioning perfectly fine. It wasn’t until I made a serious effort to get a full nights sleep (most) every night that I realized just how chronicallly fatigued I was.
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by Bonehead9266 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:06 pm

Flying cargo as younger driver is a fine option to get the jet time and cargo seems to be less impacted during downturns but when you get a solid paying spot in cargo it def makes it tougher to leave.. My biggest caution is the diabetes aspect. It quietly arrives when you're busy chasing jet time and smashing out the months.. Hotel/bagged foods, missing gym visits, booze, maids slamming carts into your door at noon during your 4 hour sleep.. it was a horrible lifestyle.. Each person's life position and timeline are unique but later in life we get reminded of what we did to ourselves over the years and sometimes choices bite ya in the glutes. Make educated choices I guess?
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by Fuzzy Bear » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:20 pm

Is there any Cargojet pilot that can chime in regarding the work conditions?

Thinking of applying but concerned about the constant midnights thing (because reading through the previous posts I now have thoughts of “diabetes” and “zombies”)
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Re: CargoJet or Transat?

Post by confusedalot » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:59 am

Victory wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:35 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:15 pm
millenials have a ton of money in their pockets
You're crazy.
[/quote

30 year olds in 75K vehicles, something I could never afford......yeah, I'm crazy.
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