Canadian Pilot Unity

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How do you view canadian pilot unity?

We are all in it together
29
33%
Screw GGN and SKY for taking my jets away in YYZ, can't wait for them to join BOTL at Jazz for being scumbags
17
19%
Screw ACPA for negotiating the exclusivity rights of one CPA away when Jazz was negotiating better terms
11
12%
I would be open to attend an all Air Canada "family" pilot open house and put this history to bed once and for all so we can work together
32
36%
 
Total votes: 89

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TheSocialChameleon
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by TheSocialChameleon »

BOTL or no deal. You want a job we will gladly hire you. Don't like it then you have other options to go to with your jet time.
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FL320
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by FL320 »

TheSocialChameleon wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:10 pm GGN guys got pfo'd at Jazz. We worked hard at our interviews and got in. BOTL is a fair deal. If you're not happy to have a job after you've lost yours then go to swg or air Tran.
On a side note; going to Swg or TS would be a better move than Jazz. I did all them and I don’t miss Jazz at all ...paycheck and lifestyle are WAY BETTER at SWG and TS....but I agree Jazz is a nice flight school for the big players.
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Last edited by FL320 on Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Outlaw58 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:50 pm by now I should be enjoying either a Captain's pay or at least a great FO schedule
After 1 YOS?
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Outlaw58
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by Outlaw58 »

Daniel Cooper wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:30 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:50 pm by now I should be enjoying either a Captain's pay or at least a great FO schedule
After 1 YOS?
Context: Wasn't considering joining Jazz (was looking for a corporate gig at the time) until a friend urged my to consider it in the fall 2017 because of the speed of movement in seniority at Jazz, citing example of FOs upgrading in about a year. I applied with the hopes (not expectations I want to be clear) that things would go the same way for me. Unfortunately, we all saw how things slowed down in 2018 and when I ended up on a shitty reserve call in late 2018, I made that observation.

Circumstantial. I know that those are not reasonable expectations based on 1 YOS, but I dared hope based on recent history.

I have options, exercised them and regardless of that comment, still happily employed at Jazz.

58
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Kaykay
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by Kaykay »

FL320 wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:42 am
TheSocialChameleon wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:10 pm GGN guys got pfo'd at Jazz. We worked hard at our interviews and got in. BOTL is a fair deal. If you're not happy to have a job after you've lost yours then go to swg or air Tran.
On a side note; going to Swg or TS would be a better move than Jazz. I did all them and I don’t miss Jazz at all ...paycheck and lifestyle are WAY BETTER at SWG and TS....but I agree Jazz is a nice flight school for the big players.
-giggle-
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Jettime3
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by Jettime3 »

Unity across the board? That's a little communist for my liking . This is not a merger. Or at least Air Canada does not want us to think it is . If it is, I'll wait for the memo . Back to unity . And I'm not singing KUMBAYA. MY DOH is like my social security number and it belongs to me and only me. GGN took our CRJ flying from us 5 years ago and now we get it back . I have no issue with the pilots coming to work here . We already have 2 tiers of pay . Which one will they be? As far as I'm concerned they can go to to bottom of the list. At least they have a job which is a lot more than many other pilots got when companies like Royal , Jetsgo, Canada 3000, and Zoom went bye bye .
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Jettime3
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by Jettime3 »

TheSocialChameleon wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:51 am What will happen to those are scheduled for CA upgrades at Jazz. Will they get CA protection pay in the event they get bumped.
GGN does not even habe a contract with ALPA. They signed a card and became part of ALPA. They still operate under an old contract from a defunct union because ALPA could never get GGN to the bargaining table . Upgrades at Jazz should go as planned! Every Jazz pilot should be honored with their due seniority and scheduled upgrade. No GGN pilot should bump a Jazz pilot. They can come over and slot in after our guys are given their due diligence. Some of our guys habe been waiting to upgrade so ALPA best see they do.
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Jettime3
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by Jettime3 »

DH8Pilot wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:03 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:50 pm
I get it and I know it will greatly affect me. It would suck to sit where I am when I thought at the time I got hire that by now I should be enjoying either a Captain's pay or at least a great FO schedule, It would suck to see GGN guys hired after me slide right into a CRJ spot I'd like to have a shot at. But what would suck even more, would be to go:"screw you GGN, BOTL, sucks to be you" and not put my money where my mouth is, when I have been so vocal (not necessarily on this forum) in the past about recognizing time in the industry and experience instead of that going straight to the BTL every time you make a career move (forced or otherwise).

and I'm bottom 1/4 btw.

58

No one is saying screw you . Some of us have seen job loss before . Zoom, Canjet, Harmony etc. The 20 somethings do not even understand that but they should understand that seniority and DOH belongs to the individual. GGN can come and I'll welcome them but they go to the bottom . The same way they would at TS or Mainline . That's how it is. And ALPA best make sure it's going to be conducted like that.
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Irony
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by Irony »

Last I checked we weren't ACPA.

BOTL? A lot of people whined about how Jazz pilots dragged the industry down with the A/B scale. Most of them fly for us now and support throwing GGN pilots under the bus...What hypocrisy.... Now there is a chance to make it right...to bring GGN pilots aboard proudly and what do I see? ACPA all over again.

This isn't the first time pilots have slit each others throats for a number. I for one won't stand by those principles. We are ALL airmen and airwomen and must stand together. The regional narrative has gone on far too long.

Oh and from my understanding...no one would even be affected by the pay guarantees (paid for by Air Canada apparently) as the vaccuum of mainline would MORE than offset a dozen guys a month bidding on vacancies over 4 bases :roll: :roll: :roll:

Get with it and make positive history for a change.


GGN brothers and sisters, you are welcome to Jazz.
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teacher
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by teacher »

Full disclosure, I went to AC on PML 1.0 and have no skin in this game.

Having said that in my MANY years at Jazz I heard A LOT of ridicule about AC and the Canadian merger, the "lawsuit" and ACPA screwing others to better itself and how in the end it ended up sinking the whole industry. Now the Jazz pilots have a chance to do something different. Remember this:

1) GGN is not bankrupt and as far as anyone knows this was a negotiated agreement as GGN did not want to deal with a union.
2) GGN pilots are bringing THEIR planes to Jazz. More planes, more positions and more pilots. Will anyone actually be affected by DOH compared to no planes and no pilots coming over? Sounds like almost a wash to me.
3) Don't think those planes are GGN's? Ask a non PML Air Canada guy who they think Jazz's jets ACTUALLY belong too.
4) There is no pilot shortage in Canada. Just look at ACs ground schools when Jazz said "stop hiring from us" a while back. TRANSAT, SUNWING, WESTJET and ENCORE along with military and corporate pilots filled the ground schools with ease.
5) Jazz does not hold the money bag. AC does. If you want more from Jazz than they must get more from AC. Will AC pony up?
6) Has an arbitrated settlement ever benefited a pilot group in Canada? Ever?
7) 400 new hires a year at AC. In less than a year any changes to the seniority list will be absorbed and gone. Enough said.

I for one have always believed that pilots in Canada deserve more. Across the board and especially in the junior ranks. However because of the way our industry is structured we have limited power. Like it or not those are the facts. Before voting think hard. Is no deal better? Is trying to go head to head with AC again worth it? Do you really think you can do better? A wise pilot once told me "you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate." If you think you can negotiate more GO FOR IT! If you don't realistically think if it is worth the risk of no deal?

This is all for you and you alone to decide. If I were at Jazz still I'd seriously be thinking of long term stability, pilot unity, getting rid of another CPA provider and getting a REAL PML to get things moving. I do agree the money could be better in the lower levels but not sure what can be done and where it would come from.

Good luck folks!
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Goldencondor
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by Goldencondor »

teacher wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:41 pm Full disclosure, I went to AC on PML 1.0 and have no skin in this game.

Having said that in my MANY years at Jazz I heard A LOT of ridicule about AC and the Canadian merger, the "lawsuit" and ACPA screwing others to better itself and how in the end it ended up sinking the whole industry. Now the Jazz pilots have a chance to do something different. Remember this:

1) GGN is not bankrupt and as far as anyone knows this was a negotiated agreement as GGN did not want to deal with a union.
2) GGN pilots are bringing THEIR planes to Jazz. More planes, more positions and more pilots. Will anyone actually be affected by DOH compared to no planes and no pilots coming over? Sounds like almost a wash to me.
3) Don't think those planes are GGN's? Ask a non PML Air Canada guy who they think Jazz's jets ACTUALLY belong too.
4) There is no pilot shortage in Canada. Just look at ACs ground schools when Jazz said "stop hiring from us" a while back. TRANSAT, SUNWING, WESTJET and ENCORE along with military and corporate pilots filled the ground schools with ease.
5) Jazz does not hold the money bag. AC does. If you want more from Jazz than they must get more from AC. Will AC pony up?
6) Has an arbitrated settlement ever benefited a pilot group in Canada? Ever?
7) 400 new hires a year at AC. In less than a year any changes to the seniority list will be absorbed and gone. Enough said.

I for one have always believed that pilots in Canada deserve more. Across the board and especially in the junior ranks. However because of the way our industry is structured we have limited power. Like it or not those are the facts. Before voting think hard. Is no deal better? Is trying to go head to head with AC again worth it? Do you really think you can do better? A wise pilot once told me "you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate." If you think you can negotiate more GO FOR IT! If you don't realistically think if it is worth the risk of no deal?

This is all for you and you alone to decide. If I were at Jazz still I'd seriously be thinking of long term stability, pilot unity, getting rid of another CPA provider and getting a REAL PML to get things moving. I do agree the money could be better in the lower levels but not sure what can be done and where it would come from.

Good luck folks!
+1

CR will not be taken hostage. And there is lots of time until 2025 for him to activate a plan B with minor to no disruption. Jazz is well positionned in the market but does not own the flying. And i agree aswell money could be better to the bottom scale.
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confusedalot
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Re: Canadian Pilot Unity

Post by confusedalot »

Hmmm,

30% say screw the other guy and 70% say let's figure this out. According to the poll at least.

Seems to me that the 30% usually, but not always, get their way?
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