A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Discuss topics relating to airlines.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

V1Vr
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:29 pm

A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by V1Vr »

There is a lot of mis-information floating around online and it seems in the GGN crew rooms.

The memos that have been going out seem very fishy and are using fear tactics to make pilots at GGN question what to do. In a round about way seems like they are trying to fool people into not putting their names on the list and when they realize it's too late they will have no choice but to stay at GGN.

GGN Management doesn't have any control over how fast the CRJ's will come to Jazz, this will be decided by Air Canada.

Be very careful of what you listen to and what memos you read from Management.

I would listen to your MEC and MEC Chairman.

At the end of the day all I can say is put your name on the list. Just do it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by V1Vr on Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:50 am, edited 10 times in total.
Bornaflyer
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by Bornaflyer »

It is clearly a ploy to prevent a mass exodus from leaving for Jazz before the end of the crj CPA until February 2020. I hope my GGn colleagues will have the sense to figure out they are being lied to. Better options to stay at GGn? Tell that to the commuters who won't have any travel privileges left! Hum!
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by rudder »

AC has the right to call GGN tomorrow and say “park all the planes”. They did it with the YYZ B1900’s. There is no such thing as a GGN CRJ flight. They are all AC flights.

AC controls the CRJ200’s. AC is the principal lessee. What is done with the aircraft is an AC decision, not a GGN decision.

AC will have an obligation for compensation to be paid to GGN per the CPA. Any other details in respect of the notice of termination provisions of the CPA are between AC and GGN. Jazz is just a spectator and is waiting to receive the AC controlled CRJ200’s.

Terms and conditions of the employment offer from Jazz to GGN pilots are between Jazz and ALPA. GGN has no say. AC has no say (other than approving grandfathered travel seniority date).

Either the head shed at GGN wasn’t paying attention or are trying to go down with a fight. Good luck. Lots have gone up against CR. It has never ended well.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
TheSocialChameleon
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by TheSocialChameleon »

Great post V1Vr.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Hate me or Like me. Both days I get paid.
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by rudder »

In order to staff attrition and growth (transfer of 12 CRJ200’s back to Jazz from GGN/addition of 5 CRJ900’s), Jazz will likely require an additional 400 pilots in 2019 that are not currently on the property.

First opportunity to benefit from those additional Jazz jobs (with full credit for seniority) goes to current GGN pilots. No merger. Offer is unheard of in the industry.

Hope that the GGN pilots are being given the straight goods on what is available to them as their employer is facing a potential fleet reduction to zero.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by rudder »

2. Air Georgian Pilots

a. Provided this agreement is ratified by the Company Pilots, all AG pilots who are:

i. on the AG pilot seniority list on January 13, 2019;
ii. included in AG’s pilot bargaining unit pursuant to the applicable Canada Industrial Relations Board certificate; and
iii. have accepted employment by February 15,2019 as a Pilot at the Company,

shall, upon commencement of Bid 2019-1, be placed onto the Pilot System Seniority List on a date of hire basis as a pilot at AG for the sole purpose of determining their start date and Position.

b. No AG pilot shall be eligible to join the Company’s Defined Benefit Pension Plan.

c. Any AG pilot hired by the Company pursuant to this Appendix shall use their YOS as a pilot at AG and the Pilot System Seniority List number for all purposes of the current Collective Agreement.

d. Notwithstanding paragraph 2.c of this Appendix, any AG pilot who is hired by the Company pursuant to this Appendix shall use their YOS as an employee at AG for purposes of vacation entitlement and travel profile.

e. Any AG pilot who accepts employment as a pilot with the Company pursuant to this Appendix shall not suffer a reduction in their hourly pay rate at AG on January 13, 2019. The transition of any such AG pilots to the Company’s pay rates shall be in order of Seniority.

f. The qualification period for any benefit plan in Section 20 (BENEFITS) of the current Collective Agreement for each AG pilot shall include their consecutive YOS at AG and the Company. Great West Life to confirm whether it will waive the pre-existing condition exclusion in the ALPA Long Term Disability Plan.

g. Consecutive YOS at AG and the Company will be used when applying to Air Canada.

h. AG pilots hired pursuant to this Appendix shall begin to accrue vacation on their date of employment with the Company. Their moving entitlements will be that of a voluntary move.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Pilotin
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by Pilotin »

V1Vr wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:31 pm There is a lot of mis-information floating around online and it seems in the GGN crew rooms. I'll do my best to set some things straight from what I know.

The memos that have been going out seem very fishy and are using fear tactics to make pilots at GGN question what to do. In a round about way seems like they are trying to fool people into not putting their names on the list and when they realize it's too late they will have no choice but to stay at GGN.

GGN Management doesn't have any control over how fast the CRJ's will come to Jazz, this will be decided by Air Canada.

I've seen the phrase "surplus" used numerous times..? This is fear tactics at it's best. Instill uncertainty in the pilot group and create division. Additionally I've heard from friends at GGN that they have been telling everyone that B1900 pilots won't be offered jobs and Jazz only want CRJ rated pilots. This is 100% false. ALL pilots at GGN are offered positions at Jazz. CRJ, B1900, CA, FO.

Be very careful of what you listen to and what memos you read from Management.

I would listen to your MEC and MEC Chairman.

At the end of the day all I can say is put your name on the list. Just do it.
What's the fishy memo? Can you post it? What have they been saying?
---------- ADS -----------
 
47north
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:44 am

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by 47north »

One of the training pilots showed me the planned March schedule on the CRJ. Looks like they are planning at least 3 Ggn crews in March to train/transfer their PPCs over.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by rudder »

47north wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am One of the training pilots showed me the planned March schedule on the CRJ. Looks like they are planning at least 3 Ggn crews in March to train/transfer their PPCs over.
The only way to know if a former GGN pilot can hold any YYZ/YUL/YYC/YVR CRJ vacancy is to have the results of Bid 2019-1 in hand. There will be displaced Jazz CRJ pilots that will be returning to YYZ from YUL/YYC/YVR. Probably mostly CA, plus a few FO’s. Commuters will want to stop commuting. And many displaced CRJ pilots on the YYZ Base (Q400/D8) will also be returning to the YYZ CRJ roster. I don’t see the junior YYZ CRJ CA slot going below 4 years seniority, but you never know. Perhaps bottom slots will go even lower. I presume that displaced Jazz CRJ Training Pilots (YUL/YYC/YVR) will be returned to YYZ Fly Base ASAP (March 01st?).

Would be helpful to have the interested GGN pilots fill out a standing bid form at the same time that they sign up for Jazz with the ability to change the bid form up to Feb 15. That would permit Jazz to close the bid sooner and publish results (including training plan) sooner. They will need some type of tutorial document explaining the Jazz Filling of Assignments Section, in particular applicable Equipment freezes.

I could see some former GGN pilots commencing training in March regardless of Equipment type. I do not foresee any Effective Dates prior to April 01st, and train out of seniority provisions are specific unless there is an agreement with Jazz ALPA that has not yet been disclosed.

I am guessing there will be some challenges to the pilot transition as GGN management does not seem to be overly enthusiastic about the developments. Jazz will need to get out ahead of the YYZ CRJ training in order to staff the transferred aircraft permitting addition on to the Jazz AOC sooner rather than later.

Hopefully Jazz MTC can start looking at the aircraft to ensure they go in to service meeting the Jazz company standard.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Outlaw58
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by Outlaw58 »

rudder wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:29 am
47north wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am One of the training pilots showed me the planned March schedule on the CRJ. Looks like they are planning at least 3 Ggn crews in March to train/transfer their PPCs over.
The only way to know if a former GGN pilot can hold any YYZ/YUL/YYC/YVR CRJ vacancy is to have the results of Bid 2019-1 in hand. There will be displaced Jazz CRJ pilots that will be returning to YYZ from YUL/YYC/YVR. Probably mostly CA, plus a few FO’s. Commuters will want to stop commuting. And many displaced CRJ pilots on the YYZ Base (Q400/D8) will also be returning to the YYZ CRJ roster. I don’t see the junior YYZ CRJ CA slot going below 4 years seniority, but you never know. Perhaps bottom slots will go even lower. I presume that displaced Jazz CRJ Training Pilots (YUL/YYC/YVR) will be returned to YYZ Fly Base ASAP (March 01st?).

Would be helpful to have the interested GGN pilots fill out a standing bid form at the same time that they sign up for Jazz with the ability to change the bid form up to Feb 15. That would permit Jazz to close the bid sooner and publish results (including training plan) sooner. They will need some type of tutorial document explaining the Jazz Filling of Assignments Section, in particular applicable Equipment freezes.

I could see some former GGN pilots commencing training in March regardless of Equipment type. I do not foresee any Effective Dates prior to April 01st, and train out of seniority provisions are specific unless there is an agreement with Jazz ALPA that has not yet been disclosed.

I am guessing there will be some challenges to the pilot transition as GGN management does not seem to be overly enthusiastic about the developments. Jazz will need to get out ahead of the YYZ CRJ training in order to staff the transferred aircraft permitting addition on to the Jazz AOC sooner rather than later.

Hopefully Jazz MTC can start looking at the aircraft to ensure they go in to service meeting the Jazz company standard.
Maybe a bit of wishful thinking here, but it would be cool for Jazz to lift the equipment freeze so that the redistribution of position better reflects the new seniority list.

58
---------- ADS -----------
 
DH8Pilot
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:12 am
Location: CYFB

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by DH8Pilot »

Outlaw58 wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:37 pm Maybe a bit of wishful thinking here, but it would be cool for Jazz to lift the equipment freeze so that the redistribution of position better reflects the new seniority list.
The implementation of MOS 4 heavily favours those on the RJ, especially with the reduction of the other types. I hope the company views lifting the equipment freeze as a necessity.
---------- ADS -----------
 
co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4562
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by co-joe »

rudder wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:06 am 2. Air Georgian Pilots

a. Provided this agreement is ratified by the Company Pilots, all AG pilots who are:

i. on the AG pilot seniority list on January 13, 2019;
...
Kind of ties AG's hand wrt hiring doesn't it? I mean now who in their right mind would go there knowing they're likely out on the street in a year. But they will have attrition.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Bornaflyer
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by Bornaflyer »

Execs on the negots committee are saying don't count on there being flying in a year from now. Interesting how Ggn management are telling everyone that their seniority can be deferred to jazz when it aint true. I guess they just want to fill the seats until their last day of CPA flying.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by rudder »

Bornaflyer wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:52 am Execs on the negots committee are saying don't count on there being flying in a year from now. Interesting how Ggn management are telling everyone that their seniority can be deferred to jazz when it aint true. I guess they just want to fill the seats until their last day of CPA flying.
Sounds like most credible info will come from ALPA sources and not the soon-to-be former employer.
---------- ADS -----------
 
V1Vr
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by V1Vr »

rudder wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:56 pm
Bornaflyer wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:52 am Execs on the negots committee are saying don't count on there being flying in a year from now. Interesting how Ggn management are telling everyone that their seniority can be deferred to jazz when it aint true. I guess they just want to fill the seats until their last day of CPA flying.
Sounds like most credible info will come from ALPA sources and not the soon-to-be former employer.
They're sending out memos again telling pilots not to put their names on the Jazz list if they've applied VIA the Portal.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by rudder »

V1Vr wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:02 pm
They're sending out memos again telling pilots not to put their names on the Jazz list if they've applied VIA the Portal.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Earlier posted document from employer seemed to suggest IF a GGN pilot has active AC application and IF AC medical and interview were complete and IF pilot was already placed in AC hiring pool - THEN they would forfeit that status if they sign up to go to Jazz.

Not sure that is the case but bottom line is there is an offer on the table from Jazz that expires after Feb 15. I presume a GGN pilot can sign up but then subsequently elect to remain at GGN thereby forfeiting the Jazz seniority number and the rights that go along with it (including the AC 60% hiring /10% rejection guidelines).

Jazz pilots had less than 2 weeks to make a decision that would affect the next 17 years. The choice was irrevocable.

Looks like GGN pilots have a choice to make as well. They get more time. And they can change their mind.

Sounds more than fair. Lots of OTS pilots that want to work at Jazz are rooting for low GGN pilot subscription rates to the Jazz offer of portable seniority.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Yieldermatik
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by Yieldermatik »

I’m an ots pool pilot waiting for all of this to take its course. I don’t mind if all GGN pilots go on to Jazz. I think it’s a great thing what’s going on. I do hope though that the whole transition period goes smooth and without glitches so we can all get on with our lives.
rudder wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:19 pm Sounds more than fair. Lots of OTS pilots that want to work at Jazz are rooting for low GGN pilot subscription rates to the Jazz offer of portable seniority.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by mbav8r »

Yieldermatik wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:45 pm I’m an ots pool pilot waiting for all of this to take its course. I don’t mind if all GGN pilots go on to Jazz. I think it’s a great thing what’s going on. I do hope though that the whole transition period goes smooth and without glitches so we can all get on with our lives.
rudder wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:19 pm Sounds more than fair. Lots of OTS pilots that want to work at Jazz are rooting for low GGN pilot subscription rates to the Jazz offer of portable seniority.
That’s refreshing, I hope you are here in the next few groundschools, for what it’s worth the GGN pilots won’t start arriving until a transfer of aircraft begins, in my opinion, we will still hire from the pool in the meantime. If you’re still in the pool after the transfers begin, it may be longer than expected for you.
Good luck
---------- ADS -----------
 
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
hsilgnepilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:30 pm

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by hsilgnepilot »

throw back to when Chorus upper management used "fear tactics" and threatened to create Jive....
That clearly didn't happen... all it lead to was a bad contract.

That said, we all know that Georgian's flying is all but done, point being that "fear tactics" are rarely acted upon.
---------- ADS -----------
 
47north
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:44 am

Re: A message to all GGN Pilots from a Jazz Pilot

Post by 47north »

hsilgnepilot wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:56 am throw back to when Chorus upper management used "fear tactics" and threatened to create Jive....
That clearly didn't happen... all it lead to was a bad contract.

That said, we all know that Georgian's flying is all but done, point being that "fear tactics" are rarely acted upon.
Jive wasn't a threat. It was an attempt to appease AC and hang on to the Dash 8 flying. In the end it was determined the savings were minimal to none with the duplication of services, so it was scrapped.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Airline Industry Comments”