Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

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complexintentions
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Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by complexintentions »

I have a question for the collective brain: what Customs procedures do those Canadian pilots who fly commercially to the US use when entering? Not referring to turnaround flights of course, only if you have to clear Customs.

Over many years of entering/exiting the US I've never had any problems, but due to not needing a visa it actually sometimes makes it a headscratcher for the officers to categorize us. This has been exacerbated by the rise in use of the Automated Passport Control kiosks, which seem to assume all foreign crewmembers have visas (which is the case, all my European colleagues require C1/D crewmember visas). But for Canadian and Bermuda citizens, where no visa is required, I've received conflicting advice from various US Customs officers on what to select from the options, none of which really fit. As I'm often the only one on my crew with a Canadian passport, time-wasting discussion occasionally ensues.

This may be a question more for expat Canadian pilots, not sure if they handle Canadian-based airlines/crew solely doing domestic flying any differently. But I'd be curious to know others' experience if anyone has anything similar.
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ahramin
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by ahramin »

Even a turnaround flight needs to clear customs before returning to Canada.

I was told a couple times to select Business travel as the purpose. That's what I do every time now and have never had a problem.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by LETUN »

Only place I had problem is SEA, they stamped my passport and wrote D1 on the stamp. Other places seem happy with B1
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by complexintentions »

ahramin wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:38 pm Even a turnaround flight needs to clear customs before returning to Canada.
Yes, I know. But I remember the procedure as more cursory than having the entire crew enter the terminal for processing. Or do you have to do that now?

ahramin wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:38 pm I was told a couple times to select Business travel as the purpose. That's what I do every time now and have never had a problem.
LETUN wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:10 pm Only place I had problem is SEA, they stamped my passport and wrote D1 on the stamp. Other places seem happy with B1

Hmmm interesting. This is why I find them a bit confused, by their own definition D1 is actually the correct visa, B1 clearly specifies it's not for crewmembers. We are not there for "Business" as the B1 Visitor visa defines it, hence there are C (Transit) and D (Crewmember) visas.

Travel Purposes Not Permitted On Visitor Visas (B1/2)

These are some examples of activities that require different categories of visas and cannot be done while on a visitor visa:

-Study
-Employment
-Paid performances, or any professional performance before a paying audience
-Arrival as a crewmember on a ship or aircraft
-Work as foreign press, in radio, film, print journalism, or other information media
-Permanent residence in the United States

Visitor Visa (B-1/B-2) - US State Department

Transit Visa (C) - US State Department

Crewmember Visa (D) - US State Department


I was actually told years ago by an officer to just select B2 (Visitor- Tourism) which I've been doing for years without issue. Then some JFK goon decides that that's not the right classification (correct) and says it should be B1 (incorrect). Lengthy boring discussion ensues while they fiddle with their computer to try to change the classification.

Annnndd...all of this is actually irrelevant and why the whole thing is stupid, as all categories of visa clearly state:

Citizens of Canada and Bermuda

Citizens of Canada and Bermuda do not require visas to enter the U.S. for the purpose of travel, as a crewmember. For more information see U.S. Embassy Ottawa website, U.S. Consulate Hamilton website and CBP website.
(Bermuda?!)

So, I'm uncertain as to why the fixation with visa classification whennnn...no visa is required. :lol: The problem is I don't get the sense that the frontline officers actually have a clue about their own rules. :roll:

Prior to widespread adoption of the kiosks I was quite happy to just fill out the venerable CBP Form 5129 during the 14 hour flight and head straight to an officer for a stamp on the landing permit but now the red coat nazis shriek and start waving their arms about and insist everyone must use the kiosks first. Where it's back to playing "pick an inappropriate, not-even-necessary visa category". Comedy! :mrgreen:

Anyway, glad to hear it's as dysfunctional elsewhere, thanks for the input.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by nbinont »

complexintentions wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:42 am So, I'm uncertain as to why the fixation with visa classification whennnn...no visa is required. :lol: The problem is I don't get the sense that the frontline officers actually have a clue about their own rules. :roll:

Prior to widespread adoption of the kiosks I was quite happy to just fill out the venerable CBP Form 5129 during the 14 hour flight and head straight to an officer for a stamp on the landing permit but now the red coat nazis shriek and start waving their arms about and insist everyone must use the kiosks first. Where it's back to playing "pick an inappropriate, not-even-necessary visa category". Comedy! :mrgreen:
Actually no "visa" is required for Canadians, however the correct "status" is required. For many people from other countries visiting the USA, a "visa" must be obtained for the US Embassy before arriving at the border. A visa is usually a full page entry in your passport allowing you in to the USA. Canadians skip that step, but your "status" B1/B2, etc still needs to be determined, as it would be for everyone else. Thus Canadians will typically get a "status", while many others would get a "visa" and then "status". Must of the documentation online assumes you need both a "visa" and "status", so people often talk about a "B1 visa", "visitor's visa", or "TN1 visa". It rolls of the tongue, but technically it's just a "status" for us.
As for which one you choose, either choose the one that seems right to you, or let the officer determine it. You're leaving in a few days anyways...
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by complexintentions »

For the sake of discussion the terms "status", "category", and "classification" can all be used interchangeably. I'm quite aware that even without a visa any Customs entity has to assign something to non-citizens entering a country. But said "status" isn't really in question, the full particulars of the operating crew are filed electronically before a flight even departs and anyone suspicious would be flagged long before we rock up to the kiosk.

Back in the day I simply wanted to clarify which status/category/classification/whatever they wished me to declare myself at the border based on their rules rather than arbitrarily choosing one that "seems right" to me. The thing is, I've received advice (from US Customs themselves) that conflicts with what I myself have been told in the past, what others have apparently been told, and in contradiction to their own published guidance. I don't really give a rats ass, I just want to get through the line in the shortest time possible. So I thought I'd solicit the experiences of others but there's no consistency there either. Welcome to government work, we're here to help you.

Needless to say I have abandoned the idea of receiving insight based on the experiences of others and will continue to muddle along as I always do. Not like I've ever had any problem entering, just a recent delay while they pulled their heads out renewed my natural curiosity. Ultimately I think it just comes down to whomever you get on a given day. :mrgreen:
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by Jack Klumpus »

I wish I could give you an answer. I don’t bother with the kiosk anymore since I always get flagged due to my Canadian passport. Like yourself, I’ll be the only one from the crew who has to visit the customs officer. I’ve been told many different views, but the one that makes most sense is because we don’t require a visa and we don’t have that option on the kiosk.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by Cessna 180 »

It's supposed to be D1, regardless whether you have a visa in your passport or not. Boston is the only airport we go to that has those crew machines, but they know we're Canadian and we generally just go to the customs officer. Every other airport, we just go to the customs officer.

I use Global Entry nearly every time anyways. I just select D1 (they had to add it to my account), and it prints the receipt and an electronic verion of the I-95 Crewmans Landing Permit. Pretty painless.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by Eric Janson »

complexintentions wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:28 pm This may be a question more for expat Canadian pilots, not sure if they handle Canadian-based airlines/crew solely doing domestic flying any differently. But I'd be curious to know others' experience if anyone has anything similar.
Just go for the simple solution - get an EU passport and get a USA crew visa.

Problem solved! :wink: :wink:
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by complexintentions »

I was on track for a EU passport pre-Brexit, and the other solution marry my European seems a bit overkill... :lol:

Think I'd still rather bumble along with the Canadian passport than have to do an interview just to get a visa for the good old US of A.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by gustind »

Next time you go use the automated machine as customs, put whatever you want and then when you go talk to the officer, explain you're a crew member. They will change something on your profile on their internal system so that every time you scan your Nexus/Passport, the option of entering as a Crew member is available. Next time you go through customs on the interactive system, you'll scan your passport and the option of D-1 will be available. Select it, and after your receipt you'll get a "Crew Member Landing Permit," which you can promptly throw in the trash as it is not required.

This is what I went through at YYZ.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by Joe Blow Schmo »

I always just select business travel. I am there on business so it's correct.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by complexintentions »

Joe Blow Schmo wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:36 pm I always just select business travel. I am there on business so it's correct.
Nope. Not correct. Just usually accepted as the closest option available at the kiosk.

Airline crew may be there "on business" but not as defined for a B1 business visitor visa. Examples of what a B1 visa is intended for include consulting with business associates or negotiating a contract. It also clearly states "arrival as a crewmember on a ship or aircraft" as a travel purpose not permitted on a B1 visitor visa. Already covered earlier in the thread.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... sitor.html

First I've heard of the system being altered to include the D1 visa, thanks for that gustind.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by Joe Blow Schmo »

Yup, I now the B1 is not technically correct, but I am there on business and there aren't any more correct options so business is my answer.
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Re: Canadian Airline Pilots and US Customs

Post by MooneyPit »

I want to clarify something here, most of the folks here are correct: the pilots and crew need to get "D-1" stamped in their Canadian passport.
Also, there is no foreign nationality that is 100% visa exempt to apply for admission into the USA.
Canadians still need visas for certain types of status such as special business related Non-immigrants, immigrants and special government officials (E, K, V, A diplomatic, and G status). For 98% of Canadians, they generally are exempt as they are entering for quick business trips or pleasure trips under 6 months. It is absolutely retarded that the US and Canadian governments even have border control between the nations (the US already has information on whoever enters/exits Canada anyways).

The NEXUS/Global Entry/SENTRI blah blah trusted traveler programs are great when they work. When they don't work and crap isn't programmed correctly, they suck. I wish the US would embrace the CANPASS system. Lets also not forgot that both US CBP and CBSA need to force their employees to take classes in professionalism too. Oh, and I break out laughing when I hear the stories how the US CBP officer stamped in the wrong status into a passport. Thousands and thousands of those "service errors" occur daily. The $130,000/yr (USD) Officers don't have a freakin clue on how to do their job. Its quite ridiculous. It has been ruled in Federal court that even if the CBP Officer bangs your passport incorrectly, it is ON YOU to get it fixed and also follow through with the rules of the status you're supposed to be under.

(disclaimer) These are the thoughts and opinions of a former immigration & customs officer for a nearby nation... I had to get the hell out of there before I lost it completely.
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