Regional Career

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mixturerich
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Re: Regional Career

Post by mixturerich »

GoHomeLeg wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:11 pm
Go to mainline and establish seniority on the most junior aircraft. Stay senior on the most junior aircraft. If you enjoy regional airline type flying, fly the E190 or A220. The regional airline world is cutthroat. Air Canada is ten times more secure than Jazz, Encore, Sky Regional, and Georgian. Jazz and Encore being the two better ones at the moment. I would even consider Swoop over the regionals. I worked for two different regional for a total of 8 years. It gets old after a while and you'll want new challenges. DO NOT turn down AC to stay at the regionals. Maybe you have four bars on your shoulders and it's a ego boost and you don't want to walk around again with three bars. These are different times than the 30+ plus year veterans at Jazz or whatever airline they originated from. The industry is not stagnant right now. Make a move whilst you can before the movement stops and/or you're burned out.
Bingo
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skymaster007
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Re: Regional Career

Post by skymaster007 »

So you got PFO'ed! So??
Apply again. You will probably get in on your second attempt or even the third.
Dont give up. Dont be discouraged.
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FL-280
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Re: Regional Career

Post by FL-280 »

CaptainKirk is getting a hard time lol
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CaptainKirk
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Re: Regional Career

Post by CaptainKirk »

Most of these comments never added to the post. Just the usual avcanada bashing other users. (It’s easy to hide behind being anonymous).

In any case, I never said regionals are better than manlike. Nor do I think mainline is better than regionals.
What matters is the individual choices you make based on your ideal life and family commitments.

Most people rushing to go to the next level think that’s what will make them happy or make more money. They always fail to see the whole picture of starting junior again and getting paid sooo low.

Anyways I’ve decided to stay for now. I’ll be further ahead financially. Who knows if I get bored I’ll apply. By then I’ll have enough money in the bank not to care.
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TT1900
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Re: Regional Career

Post by TT1900 »

CaptainKirk wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Anyways I’ve decided to stay for now. I’ll be further ahead financially.
How does that math work?
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speedah
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Re: Regional Career

Post by speedah »

He’ll be “further ahead” based off his projected 6 million YouTube followers and the income from that :lol:

Keith... you realize that if you started at AC today, in 5 years you’d be making around a minimum ( again, MINIMUM, on the a220) $115 an hour as an FO. Meanwhile your 5th year rate at Jazz would be near the $110 an hour mark. And you will always be ahead after that at AC, and miles ahead if you go left seat. Even on the 220 you’d be making almost $200 an hour as a Capt at year 5 if you started now.

You’re what, 30? That’s another 25 years if you retire at 55, ain’t no way you will make more money at jazz, the math is literally impossible.

And enough with this garbage about starting with low pay and starting junior, the number of new hires at AC is insane, you’d barely notice a difference.

Smarten up, you’re embarrassing yourself and all of your colleagues. And for the love of god, I hope you don’t lecture your FO’s with all this false information too.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Regional Career

Post by Eric Janson »

CaptainKirk wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Most of these comments never added to the post. Just the usual avcanada bashing other users. (It’s easy to hide behind being anonymous).
Well Keith - I don't "hide behind being anonymous".

I know South Asians are incredibly naive - but you're taking things to a whole new level!

You've learned nothing from your last "appearance" here and are busy digging a huge hole for yourself again.
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bearitus
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Re: Regional Career

Post by bearitus »

speedah wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:56 pm
He’ll be “further ahead” based off his projected 6 million YouTube followers and the income from that :lol:

Keith... you realize that if you started at AC today, in 5 years you’d be making around a minimum ( again, MINIMUM, on the a220) $115 an hour as an FO. Meanwhile your 5th year rate at Jazz would be near the $110 an hour mark. And you will always be ahead after that at AC, and miles ahead if you go left seat. Even on the 220 you’d be making almost $200 an hour as a Capt at year 5 if you started now.

You’re what, 30? That’s another 25 years if you retire at 55, ain’t no way you will make more money at jazz, the math is literally impossible.

And enough with this garbage about starting with low pay and starting junior, the number of new hires at AC is insane, you’d barely notice a difference.

Smarten up, you’re embarrassing yourself and all of your colleagues. And for the love of god, I hope you don’t lecture your FO’s with all this false information too.
Good post, I 100% agree. I have been advocating to my FOs to go the AC as fast as they can especially if they are young and have a long career ahead of them.
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iflyroads
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Re: Regional Career

Post by iflyroads »

Currently at AC (which isn't end all be all of aviation in canada btw) the "seniority hit" that you would take is negligible. My friends son started around a year ago and has about 500 numbers below him as of two days ago. He is a mainline 320 FO, gets weekends off and basically anything he bids for (single days, specific pairings etc). As for the pay hit, upgrades are sitting at around the 1.5 year - 2 year mark right now depending on what equipment you want.

There is something for everyone at AC these days, especially with movement being at record levels.

However, to each their own.
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Rowdy
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Re: Regional Career

Post by Rowdy »

I look at it this way..

Under 30? You're a fool if you don't go. Between 30-35, you probably should go. Over 35? Have young children and a family life? Now its time to run the numbers and figure out what exactly you want from the next 5, then 10 and then 20 years of your life. It'll be a tough call. A few years of pain for 20 years of good life. If things continue the way they are going anyways.. However..

There is NO guarantee of the 2-3 year upgrades continuing. What if they shut the hiring doors tomorrow? Another 911 event happens? The Transat deal puts close to 700 in front of you next year and Then the economy tanks? You're pretty much holding your proverbial d*ck in your hand. Literally tomorrow something could go mildly sideways and leave the bottom 200 numbers stuck where they are for the next five years.

However, change three things and it becomes a no brainer to go. 1) flat pay gone 2) lift the ridiculous course rights nonsense 3) Fix the atrocious reserve rules.

Have to look at best case AND worst case scenario and then choose something somewhere in the middle for reality.


Then again, maybe Ac will soon be forced to increase compensation when 'Merica opens the doors to anyone with an ATPL to fill their market! Ya just never know.
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Re: Regional Career

Post by '97 Tercel »

^ spot on
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Hangry
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Re: Regional Career

Post by Hangry »

35 is kind of a low arbitrary number to choose. Many many new hires well over that age.

To each their own of course. But giving up a mainline career with all its blemishes for a regional one is a bad idea.

Unless you are totally adverse to giving up the 4th bar go to mainline. 10 times out of 10. With time it will prove to be the right move, 10 times out of 10.
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flyingcanuck
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Re: Regional Career

Post by flyingcanuck »

Hangry wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:40 pm
35 is kind of a low arbitrary number to choose. Many many new hires well over that age.

To each their own of course. But giving up a mainline career with all its blemishes for a regional one is a bad idea.

Unless you are totally adverse to giving up the 4th bar go to mainline. 10 times out of 10. With time it will prove to be the right move, 10 times out of 10.
60% of the time it works everytime
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Rowdy
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Re: Regional Career

Post by Rowdy »

Hangry wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:40 pm
35 is kind of a low arbitrary number to choose. Many many new hires well over that age.

To each their own of course. But giving up a mainline career with all its blemishes for a regional one is a bad idea.

Unless you are totally adverse to giving up the 4th bar go to mainline. 10 times out of 10. With time it will prove to be the right move, 10 times out of 10.
Over 35 and you can't have a 30yr career at AC. That changes things. Also, who really wants to work past 63? No thanks! I'd rather be out the door at 60.

Many many? More like a few. Most of those coming from Express now are between 25 and 32. A handful OTS are over 35, but not 'Many many' I've been quite actively watching the list of those who left Jazz and the new hire bios at AC as it always interests me who they select. Most of my post sec was focused on hiring/interviewing.
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Re: Regional Career

Post by C-GGGQ »

Is max pension at 30? Or 25?
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FL-280
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Re: Regional Career

Post by FL-280 »

Age 60 with min of 20 years
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dumbbell daddy
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Re: Regional Career

Post by dumbbell daddy »

The last few PIT courses were mostly Jazz....so yeah not many 35-50 year olds. Lots of OTS older guys have been hired this year. My summer PIT course was a mix. Early 20’s to mid 50’s. Many of us were in our 30’s; coming from overseas, military or other Canadian airlines.

I’m not on the hiring team. Judging by the tone of the VP, it sounds like AC is looking for a good mix of experience from OTS.
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JBI
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Re: Regional Career

Post by JBI »

I think Rowdy is pretty spot on in their analysis. For a younger person starting out, getting to AC or WJ mainline as quick as possible makes the most sense for long term career options. I have been so thrilled to see so many good younger pilots that I've flown with getting to AC in their 20s or early 30s.

When one starts getting older and spouse/family starts becoming more of a factor the question becomes less clear. Gotta remember that although things are amazing now and will likely continue to be for the next few years, there are people at AC who literally spent years on the bottom of the seniority list on Reserve all the time. Not fun, but not that big a deal when you're young and single. But when you're trying to deal with kids, family, hobbies, after school activities etc. lifestyle and schedule starts playing a much higher role than long term future earnings.

One other factor is base and commuting. Especially the 'older' folks with a family, there is a significant benefit to not commuting and being able to bid (and often get) one day pairings and be home at night when the kids are young. Does it mean that we'll make less money in the long run? Probably, but I don't think you can truly put a price on being home more while kids are growing up.
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ayseven
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Re: Regional Career

Post by ayseven »

Wow some people really have problems, dont they? Here is an idea Capitaine: go to AC provided they will take you, and if you don't like it, go back to a regional or whatever floats your boat. Then you will know whether you will like it or not. The flying world has never been one of 9-5. At some point we are away from home in some crappy hotel, then in some expensive crappy restaurant. Just whatever you want in life right?
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CaptainKirk
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Re: Regional Career

Post by CaptainKirk »

ayseven wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:07 pm
Wow some people really have problems, dont they? Here is an idea Capitaine:...
Wow you’re so perfect with no problems.
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ayseven
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Re: Regional Career

Post by ayseven »

No because i dont even have a job. But that isn't the point. It isn't about me. You seem to be doing fine, that's all. You seem to like your job well enough and by aviation standards, done very well for yourself. You didn't get there by being a dummy; you earned it.

And one day, you will look back and wonder why you spent so much energy concerned about the future. We get so concerned about it that it stops our present, which is pretty silly. Posting and putting you tube vids invite other opinions, so that's my two cents.
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mbav8r
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Re: Regional Career

Post by mbav8r »

ayseven wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:07 pm
Wow some people really have problems, dont they? Here is an idea Capitaine: go to AC provided they will take you, and if you don't like it, go back to a regional or whatever floats your boat. Then you will know whether you will like it or not. The flying world has never been one of 9-5. At some point we are away from home in some crappy hotel, then in some expensive crappy restaurant. Just whatever you want in life right?
Just going to point out the problem with your suggestion to try it out, everything in the airline world, regional or otherwise is seniority. Everything including pay, there is no going back without starting from the bottom, pretty big risk if you’re not sure. The risk is bigger the longer you have been at the regional level, but hey, some of us just “have problems”.
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ayseven
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Re: Regional Career

Post by ayseven »

I guess i can't relate to your world. I have owned a successful business and had jobs, of course, but never one with any security whatsoever. My aviation career has been effectively one day at a time. Yours seems better.
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Re: Regional Career

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

ayseven wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:51 am
I guess i can't relate to your world. I have owned a successful business and had jobs, of course, but never one with any security whatsoever. My aviation career has been effectively one day at a time. Yours seems better.
It's ok I go on business forums and tell people to fire everybody. :D
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Eric Janson
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Re: Regional Career

Post by Eric Janson »

mbav8r wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:27 am
Just going to point out the problem with your suggestion to try it out, everything in the airline world, regional or otherwise is seniority. Everything including pay, there is no going back without starting from the bottom, pretty big risk if you’re not sure. The risk is bigger the longer you have been at the regional level, but hey, some of us just “have problems”.
That may be true in Canada - but Aviation is a Global Industry and there are options all over the World.

Not all companies have a rigid seniority system.

My last 4 jobs have all been as DEC.

It all comes down to individual preference.
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