On furlough: Now what?

[Blueshift]

I was recently furloughed from one of the major airlines as a mid-twenty year old pilot, early in my career. While I do presently hold a BSc, during my time on furlough I'd to pursue further education toward a Master's degree, to improve my marketability outside of aviation if another severe downturn occurs.

That said, if a recall were to happen midway through a Master's program, has anyone been successful completing the degree while working full-time at an airline? Does anyone have any experience with how marketable a masters degree (engineering/physics) might be farther down the line if another severe downturn occurs?

I’m still considering every option, so any input would be much appreciated.

Thanks for your time!

[ayseven]

I am going to chime in... I spent non flying time at university, or taking distance learning courses for university. I did my 4 year undergrad in 3 years and a bit. I retired at 58. Am I OK? I make a living...

I do know somebody who did their Masters (in a city other than the one he lived in) while working for the federal government. He had work weeks of about 80 hours. I am positive you can do a masters while flying for a living. I also think this is the absolute best way to make use of your time. But don't to an MSc in Physics; that is good for an undergrad, because though it gets you prepared for all kinds of sciences, you want something specific (ie. marketable) for your MSc or (MBA?). The powers that be thought being a pilot was pretty cool, when I applied to get into my programme. I didn't do anything to dispel that... and the rest is history.

Most people won't do what you are contemplating, which is exactly why you should do it. You didn't get this far by taking shortcuts.

There is a whole world out there, kids. Now is the time.

ps. can I use you as an internal reference?

[DanWEC]

An M.Sc. without any relevent experience, in my opinion, is useless unless you want to teach. (I also have a Bsc, should have been an MBA.) It makes sense really... those who can't do... could be an OK part time gig as an associate.
I also, coincidently, know a little about trades....
Getting a full sparky ticket is actually a long road. The apprenticeship is 9000 hours after the classroom. At full time it's 5 years, but plenty of guys hammer it out quicker. As for it being possible to complete it on the side? Sure. Likely? Going to be difficult finding a shop that will let you work with your schedule. Part time is one thing, but picking and choosing your own days on a monthly basis isn't something that goes over too well. You'd have to know an independant guy really well and he'd have to be able to swing it. That being said there is a shortage right now, so you never know!
Regardless might end up taking you 10 years.

Anyhow, not trying to sound negative, good for you on trying to make some moves!!

Edit. Just saw you removed the paragraph about becoming an electrician. Alrighty then.

[ayseven]

MSc is fine without "relevent experience". There are lots of different programmes. It isn't a PhD we are talking about, which I think is a complete waste of time, unless you LOVE going to school, and want to become a part of the pretentious wanker university prof world. But hey, that's just me, and once you go down a road like that, you discover all sorts of interesting things, and that is when things happen... The only bad thing is not finishing with a piece of paper.

[Zaibatsu]

Congratulations on your first furlough. And for it to be from a major airline at such a young age is really something.

Being in my mid 30s, I can’t help but feel like this is the first speed bump you’ve ever experienced in this industry after what was probably an unprecedented career progression if it also included time for a full university degree.

I think you need to decide what you want to do. If furloughs aren’t your thing, maybe airlines aren’t for you. For those of us who are going through our second or third or more downturns or were much later to the airlines, another skill isn’t really going to fill the gap unless it’s something quick and easy and marketable like a trade.

Even a masters degree is not a career in a box during a recession because you won’t have any relevant experience, and likely the same downturn is affecting that industry and applicants with experience are looking for jobs. Physics? What are you going to do, teach it? You’ll be a part time prof or at a community college unless you get your Doctorate. Engineering? Lots of those guys from the patch are looking for work now. A degree also costs money which might be in short supply.

So decide now. Academia or aviation. One or the other not both or one now and maybe one later. You’ll thank me in 40 years.

[Jack Klumpus]

It’s a great initiative you’re taking, not many would want to hit the books and write papers and exams, especially when they’re working full time.

I’ll give you my experience. In my mid 30s I decided to pursue an MSc in an aviation related field. I chose this because I have about 16 years of flying experience, and at that time I was flying ultra long haul. Those flights offer us quite a bit of downtime, and a reduced workload, especially in the airplane that I was flying (brand new, lots of automation). This MSc was in person, at a university that’s about a 7 hour flight of where I am. So yes, it was a challenge, especially with a family at home. If you do have a family (wife/kids), you need their support, otherwise it won’t work.

The good thing is that during long flights, you can get your laptop out and do some work. On layovers especially, get your research and reading done.

Now how will this help me in the future? Really I don’t know. What it did do, was introduce me to concepts, ideas, about our industry that I had no clue about. More importantly, it allowed me to network with colleagues from all around the works, in all different fields in aviation. I met pilots, managers, air traffic controllers, government employees, you name it.

Combined with the years of flying experience, one could use this ‘relevant’ degree, and apply my knowledge and experience in a different capacity, than a pilot. The future will only tell.

The degree is only as good as the university you got it from. I don’t recommend online or Mickey Mouse degrees. Anyone who’s looking at it will know it’s worth.

I suggest going into a management, MBA, or a safety related degree. Those are universally applied, and not only in aviation. Years of experience, combined with some management or safety degree, I think will serve you well.

Lastly, a degree is what you put into it. If you’re going to venture down this path, put in the effort, and learn. Don’t just do the minimum to pass and get that paper.

All the best, I highly recommend it.

[Ash Ketchum]

In a similar boat as you except a few years older. Don't do the masters in engineering or physics if you want to stay a pilot. A masters in engineering is only worth it if you want to be a full time engineer after and if you go back to flying full time your skills quickly get out dated in the job market.

An Mba would probably be the best as it will be useful in your pilot career if you want to get into management mater on. Another thing which I would recommend for side money is learning to code. I have a software engineering degree and have been coding on the side for the past 10 years. You can do it from home. If you are decent you can make $50-100 an hour on contract gigs. My plan is to do that full time during this slowdown.

[sjatana]

My advice is find a path that will allow you to continue working in that field even when the aviation industry is doing well. Having the flexibility of picking your own schedule/work is key. When the industry hits a downturn as it has now, you still have a continued income stream and the possibility of picking up more work where available.

Learning how to write code as the poster mentioned above is a great example. Contracts are available. You can work from a hotel room on a layover. You can work from home on a layoff.

[AirFrame]

Another perspective... You've got the Bachelor's, so you have shown the commitment necessary to complete a degree. Now what you need is knowledge and experience. A Masters degree in Engineering is definitely more marketable than a Bachelor's, when you're comparing two people with no experience. If you can even get some part time work with an engineering firm and build up your practical knowledge, that will quickly become more valuable than a Masters.

An MBA, as Matt Damon so eloquently pointed out in Good Will Hunting, can be had for a month's worth of late fees at the library. If that interests you, check out www.personalmba.com, and start reading.

[Arnie Pye]

You are in an envious poison of being young and being at a major airline. I'm making an assumption based on your age. No wife or kids to support. This makes any decision a little easier.
My advice, do what you want. Don't do something just because it looks good on your resume. You're young enough that you can probably ride out a furlough and you'll get a recall in good time. So if you see flying the line as your future, find something that pays the bills and wait. Start a business and when you go back to flying, you can keep the business as a side gig. If you think there's something you want to study just to further your knowledge go for it. If you see yourself getting into management down the road, do the masters or MBA.
Above all, don't do something because you think it will look good on a resume or it will impress someone else.

[Bede]

In a similar boat as you except a few years older. Don't do the masters in engineering or physics if you want to stay a pilot. A masters in engineering is only worth it if you want to be a full time engineer after and if you go back to flying full time your skills quickly get out dated in the job market.

An Mba would probably be the best as it will be useful in your pilot career if you want to get into management mater on. Another thing which I would recommend for side money is learning to code. I have a software engineering degree and have been coding on the side for the past 10 years. You can do it from home. If you are decent you can make $50-100 an hour on contract gigs. My plan is to do that full time during this slowdown.

What languages do you code?

[Ash Ketchum]

In a similar boat as you except a few years older. Don't do the masters in engineering or physics if you want to stay a pilot. A masters in engineering is only worth it if you want to be a full time engineer after and if you go back to flying full time your skills quickly get out dated in the job market.

An Mba would probably be the best as it will be useful in your pilot career if you want to get into management mater on. Another thing which I would recommend for side money is learning to code. I have a software engineering degree and have been coding on the side for the past 10 years. You can do it from home. If you are decent you can make $50-100 an hour on contract gigs. My plan is to do that full time during this slowdown.

What languages do you code?

Primarily C/C++, Java and Python for application development, Python/Django as well as Node.js/JavaScript/React.js for web development.

[Kaykay]

In a similar boat as you except a few years older. Don't do the masters in engineering or physics if you want to stay a pilot. A masters in engineering is only worth it if you want to be a full time engineer after and if you go back to flying full time your skills quickly get out dated in the job market.

An Mba would probably be the best as it will be useful in your pilot career if you want to get into management mater on. Another thing which I would recommend for side money is learning to code. I have a software engineering degree and have been coding on the side for the past 10 years. You can do it from home. If you are decent you can make $50-100 an hour on contract gigs. My plan is to do that full time during this slowdown.

What languages do you code?

Primarily C/C++, Java and Python for application development, Python/Django as well as Node.js/JavaScript/React.js for web development.

Aren’t there Pokémon that still need catching?

[Ash Ketchum]

What languages do you code?

Primarily C/C++, Java and Python for application development, Python/Django as well as Node.js/JavaScript/React.js for web development.

Aren’t there Pokémon that still need catching?

[Blueshift]

Thanks for the replies! It's great getting such constructive input on what to do in this scenario. While I do hope this will be brief, it increasingly appears like it might be a bit longer of a wait than what was originally anticipated, so using this time as productively as possible is certainly my goal.

ayseven, thank you for your insight. It sounds like you sort of did what I'm proposing. As for doing a Master’s in another city, hopefully that'll not be necessary! Saying as they were able to do it though, I really have no excuse. You're probably right with regard to a Physics degree though; better to target something more specific. I really appreciate the kind word though!



DanWEC, thanks for the reply. I think what I was thinking with the Master’s degree was to get some education that was a little more marketable. You’re correct that I removed the electrician paragraph: I had spoken to a few friends in the profession, and much like you, they pointed out that it would be somewhat of an uphill battle to pursue. I really appreciate your input there though.

ayseven, from the reading I’ve done online as of late, it sounds like an engineering program would still be relevant at the Master’s down the road, at least from the perspective of having done an applied math and problem solving type degree. I figure with this, and maybe an MBA, it might help in pursuing management type work in the future.

Zalbatsu, thank you for the kind words. You’re correct in your assessment; this is the first real slow-down that I’ve experienced. I’ve only been in the industry for five years, so it has really been quite a ride. Coming to such an abrupt halt has been quite a shock. That said, I’d like to use the time as productively as possible. You’re most likely correct that a trade would be the fast and easy way to get a fill-in job while on furlough. Unfortunately, it doesn’t sound like it’d be practical for me to go back to trade school then finish all my apprenticeships at this point. I guess it’d be one thing if I already had this training, but it’s a totally different scenario coming from zero. As for pursuing a Master’s degree, I guess my hope would be to gain some education to give me casual work when I’m eventually recalled, that is sufficient to keep my skills up to date to jump somewhat quickly into a full-time position if things were to slow down again. I’m not sure if that’s a practical scenario though.

Jack Klumpus, thank you for the kind worlds as well. It sounds like you’ve been able to manage such pursuits, even with a 7 hour commute to school and a family, so there’s definitely no excuse for me not being able to do it as well. Having many friends in the business community, I know networking within an industry is hugely valuable, so I understand your sentiment there. In a way, I guess I could use an engineering degree toward focusing on safety, then potentially pursue an MBA farther down the line to further target a management type position. Thank you very much for your insights in this regard!

Ash Ketchum, sorry to hear that you’re in a similar boat; it’s definitely tough times all around right now. I really appreciate your insights on the Master’s in engineering. Would you consider it potentially worthwhile if I were to pursue a safety type role within the airline or similar type contract work on the side with said engineering degree? It seems many agree an MBA would be the most worthwhile pursuit though, especially since it leaves the opportunity to seek a management type position in the future. Coding is certainly something worth considering too, given the flexibility it allows. I did do a bit of it during my undergraduate, so hopefully I’d be able to pick it up somewhat quickly (6-8 months). It’s certainly something I’ll investigate further into.

sjatana, thank you for the input. I think that’s definitely my goal; finding something that’d allow that level of flexibility. As you and the previous poster mentioned, it appears like coding might provide that a great degree of adaptability.

AirFrame, thank you for your insight. That’s a good point; unfortunately my degree isn’t directly in engineering, which is why I was considering pursuing a Master’s. That said, maybe I could find a line of work for which my degree makes me marketable, then use that to gain the all-valuable work experience needed to provide a back-up plan during tough times.

Arnie Pye, thank you for the kind words. I definitely cannot complain about my situation; however, I’d also like to take full advantage of it. Flying is definitely the goal, so riding this out is all that’s needed. Your idea of starting a business is an interesting one. Some posters have suggested some level of contracting through coding, which might be along the same lines. I have considered the idea of eventually pursuing a management position someday, so maybe the pursuing a graduate program might be worthwhile. Very good note about what to do though; I’ll focus more on myself rather than on my resume.

Thanks again everyone for your input! It certainly gives me a lot to think about, and while I’m doing my upmost to try get information from as many resources as I can, it’s helpful to hear from those in the industry who’ve experience this before and have gotten through it.

[CaptainKirk]

During this abundance of free time you can learn and add on more skills to make you more valuable in the marketplace. To me going to get a degree is NOT one of them. By the time you finish your “higher education” it will already be outdated. Then you will join the countless other people with a Masters degree in outdated information.

Instead learn useful skills that aren’t going anywhere.
Such as communication, sales, negotiation, marketing.
Use those skills to advance when the dust settles.

Captain Kirk

[pilotbzh]

anybody got the number for that trucking school ?

[ayseven]

Mr Kirk is confused about what university is about. It is not trade school.

[goldeneagle]

To me going to get a degree is NOT one of them. By the time you finish your “higher education” it will already be outdated.

I did a degree in the 80's, engineering. Funny enough, it's still relevant today. When I got laid off in one of those inevitable aviation downturns I moved into a position that made use of both my experience in aviation and my education. After two years in that position I was asked if I wanted to go back flying full time. My response, why would I do that, move to a job where it'll take 15 years to work my way back up to the income I had at the time.

Over the years, lots changed. I now operate two companies in very different fields, and am on the advisory board for a third. And yet, that education from 40 years ago, is still relevant today, who woulda thunk it.