The Call Back

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TrilliumFlt
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The Call Back

Post by TrilliumFlt »

Very interesting, let the call backs begin :shock:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/air-can ... -1.4887925
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ayseven
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Re: The Call Back

Post by ayseven »

It is about time there was some good news. Nothing is ever black and white, especially these days.
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laineinaplane
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Re: The Call Back

Post by laineinaplane »

Curious as to which airlines are going to qualify for the aid package, obviously WJ and AC. It will be interesting to see how it is allocated or if it is even an option for smaller operators.
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flyingcanuck
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Re: The Call Back

Post by flyingcanuck »

Man the comments on facebook are just horrendous, I cant believe people just let their hate get the better of them. They'd rather AC go bankrupt than keep 10,000+ people employed. Amazing.
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Arnie Pye
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Re: The Call Back

Post by Arnie Pye »

Air Canada must be well over 10,000 employees. Isn't westjet something like 12,000?

I see the same thing with people preposing a rent strike. Let's assume you and all the tenants in your building refuse to pay rent. Landlord expenses continue eventually and since there are no free lunches, eventually the piper must get paid. One of two things happens, the landlord decides there isn't any benefit in being a landlord and sells the building forcing you out or the bank repossesses the building and sells it at a loss. Either way you're out on your ass.

Don't be short sighted. Pay your rent. Support the government bailing out companies as well as supporting the individuals. It's the only way we are going to get through this together.

PS. They also need a full bail out for everyone. Sky Regional, WestJet, Jazz, Porter. President has been set. We are all in this together.
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MrAviator19
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Re: The Call Back

Post by MrAviator19 »

Arnie Pye wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:34 pm Air Canada must be well over 10,000 employees. Isn't westjet something like 12,000?

I see the same thing with people preposing a rent strike. Let's assume you and all the tenants in your building refuse to pay rent. Landlord expenses continue eventually and since there are no free lunches, eventually the piper must get paid. One of two things happens, the landlord decides there isn't any benefit in being a landlord and sells the building forcing you out or the bank repossesses the building and sells it at a loss. Either way you're out on your ass.

Don't be short sighted. Pay your rent. Support the government bailing out companies as well as supporting the individuals. It's the only way we are going to get through this together.

PS. They also need a full bail out for everyone. Sky Regional, WestJet, Jazz, Porter.President has been set. We are all in this together.
I agree. Now that Bernie's out of the race, get ready for 4 more years of Trump! :shock:

MrA
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MrAviator19
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Re: The Call Back

Post by MrAviator19 »

flyingcanuck wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:48 pm Man the comments on facebook are just horrendous, I cant believe people just let their hate get the better of them. They'd rather AC go bankrupt than keep 10,000+ people employed. Amazing.
They're the same people who conveniently blame AC for their flights being delayed due to weather or a broken baggage carousel at YYZ. That's why I gave up trying to explain the airline industry to simple minded folks a long time ago.

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FL320
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Re: The Call Back

Post by FL320 »

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timeflies
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Re: The Call Back

Post by timeflies »

FL320 wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:19 pm Good news for Flair too
EVERY airline, without any exception should follow AC and Flair initiative from today. If one did it there is NO reason another couldn't. just tells you about the employer in fact.
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Loon-A-Tic
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Re: The Call Back

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

It could very well be that under the various CPA agreements; granted each one is different, that govern how the Air Canada Express carriers conduct their business with Air Canada that the Express carriers haven't in fact lost the require percentage in revenue to qualify their employees for the Federal wage subsidy program. The Express carriers are paid to operate the airplane on Air Canada behalf, on Air Canada's routes regardless of the number of passengers on board. So in fact it may well be that the various Express carriers's revenue hasn't diminished, only AC has lost revenue. Flair and others airlines conduct their own "ongoing" business in a very different model then the Express carriers relationship with Air Canada.
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timeflies
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Re: The Call Back

Post by timeflies »

Loon-A-Tic wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:53 pm The Express carriers are paid to operate the airplane on Air Canada behalf
you just got it there. The express carriers are paid for their services, therefore with the capacity reduction they will be paid less, less than 30% of what they were getting, making them eligible.

think why would they layoff pilots cut on everything if there was no loss ?
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boeingboy
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Re: The Call Back

Post by boeingboy »

Whoopty do....I'm going to go out and give an opinion of reason here.

This does NOTHING for the airline itself, and it only put a bigger financial burden on the federal coffers in the end. I'd rather see the government give a check to the businesses themselves....or grants....or loans....or whatever.

Yea - sure its great for all these employees....making a full paycheck (in some cases) while sitting around at home doing nothing??? yea - EI sucks and it hurts, but we all need to count pennies nowadays - and paying tens of thousands of people more than EI to sit on their ass at home just seems wrong. It's one thing if the business continues to operate (like 70% or so) but it's another when it is practically (or actually in some cases) shut down. I know we are talking about just airlines here - but the subsidy is available to everyone in the country.

The inflation and debt is going to be big enough when and if we ever get to the other side of this....for the country and all the businesses.

From the president of ALPA just the other day...
"In fact, according to unions representing WestJet staff, the future of many of Canada’s leading aircraft carriers hangs in the balance.
Unions are urging the federal government to supply immediate support, to prevent companies like WestJet from going under.
“We’ve never seen an airline or an industry so acutely affected,” said Tim Perry, a WestJet pilot and president of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) Canada.
He continued, “I would go so far as to say devastated, within a matter of weeks.”
While Finance Minister Bill Morneau previously pledged specific measures to help the air transport industry, among other affected industries, he is yet to announce any official funding or plans.
“It is urgent. Time is of the essence,” Perry warned."
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ayseven
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Re: The Call Back

Post by ayseven »

It is, on the other hand, going to make for a faster ramp up of service once things get going. HR will have less to do, and there are probably security things to consider, I don't know, but a lot of details go into a hiring or re-hiring, that won't need to be done if they stay on the payroll. I am not talking about currency or training, but even there, people can have access to sims, I would imagine, that they wouldn't, if layed off. This makes for less "discussion" with the government later on, how the company cannot cope with the new conditions. So for the government, I see it as a good thing too.

They are going to find a vaccine soon enough; yes, testing takes a while. But overall, we are going to get there. There are many smart people working day and night, all over the world, cooperating, and we have to have confidence in them.

So that was 10 minutes. What else can I do today?
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: The Call Back

Post by Yycjetdriver »

This program is only until June 6th. Does anyone in their right mind think airlines will be ramping up or even relatively close to ramping up, not a chance.
This program is likely just the Federal governments way of using one of the largest/hardest hit industry to alleviate pressure on the EI system. Take AC alone for example, with one payment they’re able to alleviate 16,000+ EI applications and look like hero’s while doing it. Less than 2 months from now those 16,000+ will most likely all be back applying for EI however, the system has had time to work through all the smaller more diverse applicants and the federal government can come out and say they did all they could while still trying to look like hero’s.
Even if the ramp back up begins in the near future, AC wouldn’t need all 16,000 employees right away, it will be a slow methodical rebuild, what other reason is there for keeping them all on a payroll to do nothing.
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bobcaygeon
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Re: The Call Back

Post by bobcaygeon »

boeingboy wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:07 pm Whoopty do....I'm going to go out and give an opinion of reason here.

This does NOTHING for the airline itself, and it only put a bigger financial burden on the federal coffers in the end. I'd rather see the government give a check to the businesses themselves....or grants....or loans....or whatever.

Yea - sure its great for all these employees....making a full paycheck (in some cases) while sitting around at home doing nothing??? yea - EI sucks and it hurts, but we all need to count pennies nowadays - and paying tens of thousands of people more than EI to sit on their ass at home just seems wrong. It's one thing if the business continues to operate (like 70% or so) but it's another when it is practically (or actually in some cases) shut down. I know we are talking about just airlines here - but the subsidy is available to everyone in the country.

The inflation and debt is going to be big enough when and if we ever get to the other side of this....for the country and all the businesses.

From the president of ALPA just the other day...
"In fact, according to unions representing WestJet staff, the future of many of Canada’s leading aircraft carriers hangs in the balance.
Unions are urging the federal government to supply immediate support, to prevent companies like WestJet from going under.
“We’ve never seen an airline or an industry so acutely affected,” said Tim Perry, a WestJet pilot and president of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) Canada.
He continued, “I would go so far as to say devastated, within a matter of weeks.”
While Finance Minister Bill Morneau previously pledged specific measures to help the air transport industry, among other affected industries, he is yet to announce any official funding or plans.
“It is urgent. Time is of the essence,” Perry warned."
Give it to Calin and crew to buy back more stock? It's cheap right now especially seeing as they were buying it back at over $40 in early March...... Or wherever they chose to squirrel it away. It's not a given that it will make it directly back into the economy which is the intent of this money.

Any money going out right now to employee's is going to end up directly into the economy because the people getting laid off have immediate expenses. A huge number of the people getting laid off already live pay cheque to pay cheque. It's not going into their RRSP's.
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Arnie Pye
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Re: The Call Back

Post by Arnie Pye »

MrAviator19 wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:44 pm President has been set. We are all in this together.
I agree. Now that Bernie's out of the race, get ready for 4 more years of Trump!
Thanks for that. You'd think I was so busy these days that I didn't have time to read my own post.

The thing is that the program exists. The big guys are taking advantage of it and even your brothers at Flair are in on the program. How would you like to be a Sky Regional pilot and see everyone including Porter and Flair keep their pay cheque while you're the only airline pilot on the CERB? If Jazz or Sky don't qualify because Russ and Joe still make more than 70% of their pay, then ALPA had better scream bloody murder to every politician and news agency they can find until that gets fixed.

PS, I'm pretty sure that the Sky pilots have always pinched every penny and likely will do so for the next five years COVID or not.
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boeingboy
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Re: The Call Back

Post by boeingboy »

Give it to Calin and crew to buy back more stock? It's cheap right now especially seeing as they were buying it back at over $40 in early March...... Or wherever they chose to squirrel it away. It's not a given that it will make it directly back into the economy which is the intent of this money.

Any money going out right now to employee's is going to end up directly into the economy because the people getting laid off have immediate expenses. A huge number of the people getting laid off already live pay cheque to pay cheque. It's not going into their RRSP's.

Really? That's what your worried about?

First - I think that's the farthest thing from anyone's mind right now - buying stock. They are trying to keep the lights on until they can operate again. However - to play devils advocate - it's easy to slap restrictions on a company like they did in the US to keep that from happening.

Second - What about everyone other than AC? WestJet, Sunwing, Porter, Flair....I believe they are all private companies - so no stock to buy back. Not to mention all the smaller operators out there...... I'm talking about all businesses big and small. They need to be around when the dust settles so that people have good paying jobs to go back to. The government money is best used trying to keep them afloat.

Third - The employees on EI or CERB are already getting money for expenses. With mortgages being deferred and interest rates on credit being slashed one can get by with a little budgeting until this is over.

My point is that having a bigger paycheck is great in the short term - but bad in the long term unless something is done to directly help the companies bottom line. This simply doesn't do that unless the company is operating at any great capacity. (something which none of the airlines are doing right now)
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co-joe
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Re: The Call Back

Post by co-joe »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:02 am This program is only until June 6th. ...
This program is likely just the Federal governments way of using one of the largest/hardest hit industry to alleviate pressure on the EI system. Take AC alone for example, with one payment they’re able to alleviate 16,000+ EI applications and look like hero’s while doing it. ...
No idea what the average layed off AC employee in that 16 000 makes but the cost of paying full wages is going to be astronomical compared to giving everyone $573 per week on EI. 16 000 x 573 x 4.2 weeks per month is $38 505 600/ month. My guess is that the cost of paying everyone full wages will be at least double the cost of the EI.

He must really be afraid of that unemployment rate.
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ayseven
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Re: The Call Back

Post by ayseven »

Who isn't? But a bit of perspective please: it is TEMPORARY. Eventually, people may not have the lifestyle they had before, but Schitt's Creek isn't so bad, once you get used to it.
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trey kule
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Re: The Call Back

Post by trey kule »

Yyc

I think you nailed it. Costing the taxpayers “only” another $300 a week more than EI,
Smart political move to be a hero....
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