Lufthansa May file for bankruptcy

[boeingboy]

Lufthansa is on the cliffs edge now.....(like most airlines I'm sure.) It wont be the last either...
Airlines need bailouts - or it's going to be a really hard future.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/lu ... spartanntp

[gtappl]

Lufthansa is on the cliffs edge now.....(like most airlines I'm sure.) It wont be the last either...
Airlines need bailouts - or it's going to be a really hard future.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/lu ... spartanntp

I'm actually seeing CANADIANS whining that the airlines got huge bailouts and wasted their money, I ask for examples and they point to articles about AMERICAN AIRLINES and United and seem to forget what country we live in.

I doubt AC we will get a bailout here :/

[Daniel Cooper]

The general public despises airlines here. At some point we need to do some soul searching and figure out why that is. I'm sure many people here will say it's "entitlement" though. It's not a worldwide phenomenon though. There are places in Asia for example where people love their airlines. The staff they interact with during their travel are kind, pleasant, and helpful. It doesn't take a lot.

[Boreas]

The general public has seen airline profits increase while their legroom has decreased, and while they've had to fork over additional cash for baggage fees, fuel surcharges and meals.

The general public is quasi aware of the shenanigans the current duopoly in Canada has been pulling. They are opposed a bailout because they're aware AC is one of the most profitable airlines in the world, at their expense.

[mbav8r]

The general public has seen airline profits increase while their legroom has decreased, and while they've had to fork over additional cash for baggage fees, fuel surcharges and meals.

The general public is quasi aware of the shenanigans the current duopoly in Canada has been pulling. They are opposed a bailout because they're aware AC is one of the most profitable airlines in the world, at their expense.

At their expense!
It’s a business who’s goal is to make money!
The CFL wants 150 million bailout if the season is cancelled due to government imposed restrictions, they are not the only industry with their hands out. How about the rent being covered for business, etc.
How about the 1.7 billion for the oil industry? Every sector is suffering and so far no mention of airline specific bailout!

[Boreas]

It’s a business who’s goal is to make money!

You're right, it is a business. Stop pretending like the airlines are a socialized state entity... only when things are bad, of course.

[nottellin]

It’s a business who’s goal is to make money!

You're right, it is a business. Stop pretending like the airlines are a socialized state entity... only when things are bad, of course.

It seems everybody and everything is a social state entity these days with their hands out.

Nothing can fail.

[Gino Under]

Virgin Atlantic are about to go down as well.
Undoubtedly, more to come.

https://simpleflying.com/virgin-atlanti ... -survival/

Gino Under

[dhc#]

It's a worldwide CTRL--ALT--DEL for airlines.

[sanjet]

Airlines, specially in Canada, are probably the most hated industry no matter where you live in Canada. Doesn’t help airlines refuse to refund tickets for cancelled flights and give credits instead.

The CEWS is probably the better way to bail out companies undercover.

[boeingboy]

Airlines, specially in Canada, are probably the most hated industry no matter where you live in Canada. Doesn’t help airlines refuse to refund tickets for cancelled flights and give credits instead.

...and why should they? If they give refunds - they will collapse. This was completely out of their control. As such - the government should be bailing them out.

The CEWS is probably the better way to bail out companies undercover.

That's a ridiculous statement. The CEWS does nothing for a company that's not operating.

[montado]

Airlines, specially in Canada, are probably the most hated industry no matter where you live in Canada. Doesn’t help airlines refuse to refund tickets for cancelled flights and give credits instead.

...and why should they? If they give refunds - they will collapse. This was completely out of their control. As such - the government should be bailing them out.

The CEWS is probably the better way to bail out companies undercover.

That's a ridiculous statement. The CEWS does nothing for a company that's not operating.

Why should a company refund borrowed money they are holding onto for a service they can no longer provide? How is it that an airlines accounting principals have expensed all this air travel that has not even taken place? I don't know of any other industry where I would pay for goods or services and not receive a refund if I'm not able to use them... Ah maybe lost or stolen gift cards, that's the only one I can think of.

[goldeneagle]

...and why should they? If they give refunds - they will collapse.

They didn't deliver the product they sold. Every other company in Canada is required by law to give refunds for products not delivered.

In essense, the airlines have interest free loans from the customers when the 'refund' comes in the form of a voucher with customer may or may not be able to use over time. Some of them will not be able to finance the rest of a holiday, so voucher will expire worthless. Other customers will die before they get to use it. All of those unused vouchers become a 'gift'.

I may feel different if our airlines were like the ones in the US, and gave refunds for product not delivered, but as long as they hold onto that money then they dont need or deserve any form of bailout.

If giving refunds for product not delivered causes them to collapse, they were living on borrowed money and time to begin with.

[florch]

Lufthansa is on the cliffs edge now.....(like most airlines I'm sure.) It wont be the last either...
Airlines need bailouts - or it's going to be a really hard future.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/lu ... spartanntp

I wonder if bankruptcy will be used to open up contracts and give everyone a haircut. If so, expect others to follow the example. I'm not saying I like it or support it, just that I've seen some history.

[FL320]

Lufthansa is on the cliffs edge now.....(like most airlines I'm sure.) It wont be the last either...
Airlines need bailouts - or it's going to be a really hard future.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/lu ... spartanntp

I wonder if bankruptcy will be used to open up contracts and give everyone a haircut. If so, expect others to follow the example. I'm not saying I like it or support it, just that I've seen some history.

We switched to an employer market and they will ask for concessions. Since half of the airlines union members were hired recently they will massively vote yes to any haircut just to keep their jobs (most still on flat pay).

[montado]

Lufthansa is on the cliffs edge now.....(like most airlines I'm sure.) It wont be the last either...
Airlines need bailouts - or it's going to be a really hard future.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/lu ... spartanntp

I wonder if bankruptcy will be used to open up contracts and give everyone a haircut. If so, expect others to follow the example. I'm not saying I like it or support it, just that I've seen some history.

We switched to an employer market and they will ask for concessions. Since half of the airlines union members were hired recently they will massively vote yes to any haircut just to keep their jobs (most still on flat pay).

We could just do a C scale... You know the A scale had a 2 year flat pay, then the B scale millennials got the 4 year flat pay and no DB pension.... we could take the next generation of pilots and do 6 year flat pay, no pension!

[Eric Janson]

Lufthansa is on the cliffs edge now.....(like most airlines I'm sure.) It wont be the last either...
Airlines need bailouts - or it's going to be a really hard future.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/lu ... spartanntp

I wonder if bankruptcy will be used to open up contracts and give everyone a haircut. If so, expect others to follow the example. I'm not saying I like it or support it, just that I've seen some history.

I was also wondering if this was going to happen - I'm not an expert on Bankruptcy (works differently in different countries).

There may come a point where Bankruptcy may be cheaper than continuing operations.

I believe this option is on the table at Lufthansa because any bailout comes with a number of conditions that are not acceptable to the Lufthansa Management.

I'd be surprised if this was allowed to happen - but we're living in a different World. All bets are off imho.

[ayseven]

Well they told me they were still going to pay my refund on my flights that got cancelled in late March. I am not holding my breath. And here I was looking forward to business class...

[goingnowherefast]

I wonder if bankruptcy will be used to open up contracts and give everyone a haircut. If so, expect others to follow the example. I'm not saying I like it or support it, just that I've seen some history.

We switched to an employer market and they will ask for concessions. Since half of the airlines union members were hired recently they will massively vote yes to any haircut just to keep their jobs (most still on flat pay).

We could just do a C scale... You know the A scale had a 2 year flat pay, then the B scale millennials got the 4 year flat pay and no DB pension.... we could take the next generation of pilots and do 6 year flat pay, no pension!

Don't they remember the mess they were in just a few months ago with not enough pilots? Hopefully they remember it was a primarily a PAY shortage and few people actually wanted to be pilots for the crap conditions. I know executives are short sighted, but holy crap, we're talking about February.

[dhc#]

More on Lufthansa's plans

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/l ... 82.article