CEWS

[ayseven]

L39guy. You are right of course. It is impossible to plan accordingly when you make a low salary in a big city in Canada. However, this is the nature of our business, that it will all fall apart eventually, and slowly build up to near where it was. I do not see a way to change any of this. Is the 1500 Hr rule in the States responsible for increasing working conditions for pilots? This should not be an issue here for a few years, but wages are not likely to go up much either, so that isn't going to do anything for a while.

Pilots and others too, have a hard time right now, and I really do sympathise, but it is just the way it is and always has been. I really cannot imagine getting to the top of the pile, and then have the rug pulled out, AND maybe not be able to go back to the old job. If this is that difficult to stomach though, it may be time to do something more stable for a while; we all have free will, can choose how we look at it, and can survive.

[L39Guy]

From the CEO of ACPA's newletter dated June 1st:

My early experience at Air Canada was marked by stagnation, retrenchment, and restructuring. In the early 80s, a furlough was deferred via a simple reduction in hours for all pilots. In 1980, Air Canada had 2,004 pilots on the seniority list; by 1992 there were only 1,781. During those lean years, a left seat was typically achieved over the course of 14 to 16 years. While Air Canada’s last pilot furlough was in the early 2000s, our members have lived through much insecurity and upheaval from the fallout of the merger with Canadian Airlines, followed in quick succession by 9/11, SARS, creditor protection, pension insolvency, and other economic stressors. My emphasis.

It is clear that eating your young is not "just the way it is and always has been" as the 1980's furlough was successfully deferred as well as the post 2008 financial crash through a reduction in hours.

I am not advocating a reduction in the hours to the extent that would mitigate all 780 or so furloughs - that is way too much for anyone to reasonably swallow. But a 10% reduction in hours would keep roughly 330 or pilots on the payroll and bring the remaining 450 closer to a recall. I don't think that is unreasonable.

[flybyyou]

any word on until when CEWS expires for Air transat , sunwing ?

[FL320]

any word on until when CEWS expires for Air transat , sunwing ?

Air Transat will continue the CEWS for all employees as long as it’s available from the government.

[ayseven]

From the CEO of ACPA's newletter dated June 1st:

My early experience at Air Canada was marked by stagnation, retrenchment, and restructuring. In the early 80s, a furlough was deferred via a simple reduction in hours for all pilots. In 1980, Air Canada had 2,004 pilots on the seniority list; by 1992 there were only 1,781. During those lean years, a left seat was typically achieved over the course of 14 to 16 years. While Air Canada’s last pilot furlough was in the early 2000s, our members have lived through much insecurity and upheaval from the fallout of the merger with Canadian Airlines, followed in quick succession by 9/11, SARS, creditor protection, pension insolvency, and other economic stressors. My emphasis.

It is clear that eating your young is not "just the way it is and always has been" as the 1980's furlough was successfully deferred as well as the post 2008 financial crash through a reduction in hours.

I am not advocating a reduction in the hours to the extent that would mitigate all 780 or so furloughs - that is way too much for anyone to reasonably swallow. But a 10% reduction in hours would keep roughly 330 or pilots on the payroll and bring the remaining 450 closer to a recall. I don't think that is unreasonable.

I did not say that eating one's young, was prevalent. I merely said things were hard, and still are.

[L39Guy]

When the junior colleagues bear the brunt of COVID and the others carry-on unscathed that is eating your young.

[Ash Ketchum]

When the junior colleagues bear the brunt of COVID and the others carry-on unscathed that is eating your young.

I think there will be an even bigger pilot shortage at the end of all of this. I for one am seriously considering pulling the plug and retraining for another career. I'm sure I'm not the only one at AC/Express thinking this way at the moment.

[Launchpad1]

I for one am seriously considering pulling the plug and retraining for another career. I'm sure I'm not the only one at AC/Express thinking this way at the moment.

The question is though retrain as what. I've been in this situation before and what you'll find is when you apply for other (non Pilot) jobs and you have Pilot on your resume you're going to struggle. The new employer sees that and thinks why should I employ you, you're a Pilot (queue image of someone getting paid $200k a year surrounded by beautiful people) as soon as things pick up you're going to leave and go back to flying. I've had those conversations with other employment interviewers in the past and no matter how hard you try to explain that Pilot jobs just aren't like that they don't believe you.

[McKinley]

When the junior colleagues bear the brunt of COVID and the others carry-on unscathed that is eating your young.

I think there will be an even bigger pilot shortage at the end of all of this. I for one am seriously considering pulling the plug and retraining for another career. I'm sure I'm not the only one at AC/Express thinking this way at the moment.

No Sir,

You are not alone. In my 18 years in the industry myself and others are getting tired of this. Wages and benefits are trending down relative to cost of living after each successive “ recession.” Wages done rebound even in the good times.. I am hoping this is the catalyst for change ... but I’m not holding my breath. I’m hoping to be recalled and leave on my terms but that may not be a reality.

Feel free to DM and reach out

[Ash Ketchum]

I for one am seriously considering pulling the plug and retraining for another career. I'm sure I'm not the only one at AC/Express thinking this way at the moment.

The question is though retrain as what. I've been in this situation before and what you'll find is when you apply for other (non Pilot) jobs and you have Pilot on your resume you're going to struggle. The new employer sees that and thinks why should I employ you, you're a Pilot (queue image of someone getting paid $200k a year surrounded by beautiful people) as soon as things pick up you're going to leave and go back to flying. I've had those conversations with other employment interviewers in the past and no matter how hard you try to explain that Pilot jobs just aren't like that they don't believe you.

I agree with that point and it has happened to me in the past as well.

I think I may go down the path of taking out a loan and going back to university for a masters or professional degree to rebrand myself and hop into a new industry. I already have a bachelors so may as well build on that.

[L39Guy]

I can came to the same conclusion from the 1990's recession - an unemployed pilot with a senior number (particularly at a defunct carrier) is not worth the paper it is written on.

Personally, I stayed in the industry as I enjoyed flying but diversified by going back to school then starting a business. My business is such that it can be managed remotely. Both school work and business related work that can be done while killing time in a hotel room during a layover is a wonderful way to use your time. Better than watching soap operas and other idiotic TV shows. And, the 12 bottle-to-throttle rule almost guarantees 4 or 5 hours in the evening to devote to work.

I found it a splendid combination - get the flying fix while keeping the brain active pursuing further education then a business. I would also add that starting a business with another source of income takes a lot of pressure off while the business is in the start-up phase.

[Launchpad1]

That's a good idea and something I'm also considering doing. Like someone above said this is getting abit annoying now with the constant career road blocks you get in aviation. Having been in this industry for around 15 years I have been held back (through recessions etc etc) at least 4 times now.

I'm considering trying to get into UAV flying, perhaps start a small UAV company and see where it goes.

[Ash Ketchum]

That's a good idea and something I'm also considering doing. Like someone above said this is getting abit annoying now with the constant career road blocks you get in aviation. Having been in this industry for around 15 years I have been held back (through recessions etc etc) at least 4 times now.

I'm considering trying to get into UAV flying, perhaps start a small UAV company and see where it goes.

That was in my list of business ideas as well. It seems the photography/videography side of drone flying is becoming saturated but lots of opportunities in industries like agriculture, construction and lidar aerial survey.

[Launchpad1]

That was in my list of business ideas as well. It seems the photography/videography side of drone flying is becoming saturated but lots of opportunities in industries like agriculture, construction and lidar aerial survey.

Also some seriously good Infrared capabilities now too.

My idea was to get a Mavic Mini first (it's weight puts it into a category where you don't need the advanced licence) and see if I can become richer than Warren Buffet

[FenderManDan]

That was in my list of business ideas as well. It seems the photography/videography side of drone flying is becoming saturated but lots of opportunities in industries like agriculture, construction and lidar aerial survey.

Also some seriously good Infrared capabilities now too.

My idea was to get a Mavic Mini first (it's weight puts it into a category where you don't need the advanced licence) and see if I can become richer than Warren Buffet

I run that ops on the side and it is tough like any business.
You would need the complex cert to operate commercially.

[rudder]

CEWS Program has been extended but terms and conditions for both qualification and benefit level have been significantly altered for the periods after August 29.

[tbayav8er]

So, the new CEWS information is pretty confusing to me. So basically after August 29th, the CEWS payments for furloughed employees will just be equal to EI/CERB?

[citizenbanana]

For those of us that have been on CEWS from the beginning of Covid. When CEWS is done at the end of December will we have not worked enough hours in the past 52 weeks to be eligible for E.I?

[fur1ough]

CEWS is paid by your company and then afterwards reimbursed by the gvnt, and as far as I understand qualifies you for EI.

[Launchpad1]

So basically after August 29th, the CEWS payments for furloughed employees will just be equal to EI/CERB?

I had a look at the changes. Not sure where you got this from.