Will Flair/Sunwing survive

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3down&loct
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Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by 3down&loct »

The Covid has hit AC and WJ hard, however there seems to be little discussion about Sunwing and Flair.
How much longer can they continue without income? What is in store when things pick up? Merger?
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FL-280
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by FL-280 »

I dont see a merger between flair and sunwing. I dont see Sunwing going under
Flair on the other hand wont make it through the year IMO
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tbaylx
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by tbaylx »

Not sure where you got the impression that Flair has no income.

Load factors back up over 50% on the operating routes and a new cargo program in place have kept the lights on and as far as I know Flair has been the only airline to keep all employees on full pay up until this point.

Your guess is as good as mine on how long this downturn will last but I wouldn't be betting against Flair.
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3down&loct
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by 3down&loct »

Well that is good news. I was not aware that Flair was operating. Good to know. I am trying to stay optimistic that things will return faster then the general airline executive sentiment.
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flying4dollars
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by flying4dollars »

FL-280 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:33 am I dont see a merger between flair and sunwing. I dont see Sunwing going under
Flair on the other hand wont make it through the year IMO
What did you base your opinion on, out of curiosity?
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flying4dollars
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by flying4dollars »

3down&loct wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:25 am Well that is good news. I was not aware that Flair was operating. Good to know. I am trying to stay optimistic that things will return faster then the general airline executive sentiment.
I hope so! But better to prepare for the worst, and hope for the best, which is what Flair and I'm sure every airline is doing. Cliche but very fitting.
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ant_321
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by ant_321 »

I would bet a lot of money there won’t be a merger. Sunwing airlines is simply a shuttle bus to service their hotels. I don’t see a scenario in a downturn where a merger does anything to help the hunters.

I’m still reasonably confident Swg will survive as long as the borders open up this winter, but probably will be significantly smaller. If not someone will be getting a real good deal on my house. I have no idea of flair’s situation.
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thenoflyzone
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by thenoflyzone »

Flair has been running a decent amount of charters from YUL to MEX and GUA in order to pick up foreign workers. They had 2 B738s based at YUL pretty consistently in May.

That kind of stuff should definitely help their bottom line.
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boeingboy
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by boeingboy »

Sunwing is currently flying 4 airplanes. Mostly for the temporary foreign workers. They are making plans to go south end of the month - but I bet it depends on how many seats they can sell. As long as this 14 day quarantine is in effect - I don't think anyone will have any luck. I've heard they may also have a few other pokers in the fire, we will see what comes of those. Don't forget - they cut everything down to basic life support very early, and have negotiated many deals to save (and make) some money.

Sunwing is going nowhere - the Sunwing group is very large and the airline is only a small part of it.
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Loon-A-Tic
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

I'm guessing any flight(s) conducted for the purpose of bring TFW's to Canada or at least Ontario are about to end.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.4964690
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by Yycjetdriver »

boeingboy wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:58 pm Sunwing is going nowhere - the Sunwing group is very large and the airline is only a small part of it.
Yes it’s true the airline is only a fraction of Sunwing’s business, however every other “business” they have has likely been severely affected. Their size could be a negative in this situation not a positive like you alluded to. It would be safe to assume most of their resorts are sitting nearly empty.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

This is valid for every airline in Canada. None, and I mean none, is guaranteed to survive the crisis.
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boeingboy
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by boeingboy »

Yes it’s true the airline is only a fraction of Sunwing’s business, however every other “business” they have has likely been severely affected. Their size could be a negative in this situation not a positive like you alluded to. It would be safe to assume most of their resorts are sitting nearly empty.
This is valid for every airline in Canada. None, and I mean none, is guaranteed to survive the crisis.
Absolutely - I agree with you both. It's definitely a dark time for everyone. I didn't mean to imply they are not affected. I read too much into the question in that a lot of people believe that Sunwing, Flair or the smaller companies are doomed to fail. Sunwing is in a unique position and I believe they have a better chance to come out the other end than some or most others.
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daedalusx
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by daedalusx »

Well on the upside, the protests/riots/race war over the last week apparently have shown that CV19 is cured and/or irrelevant. If no-one is going to abide by social distancing rules anyways then might as well open up those resorts and kill the 14 days quarantine rule.
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speedah
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by speedah »

flying4dollars wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:20 pm
FL-280 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:33 am I dont see a merger between flair and sunwing. I dont see Sunwing going under
Flair on the other hand wont make it through the year IMO
What did you base your opinion on, out of curiosity?
Out of thin air clearly since he didn’t even know they were operating...
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co-joe
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by co-joe »

It's a weird question OP. He probably knew Sunwing signed a deal with a ULCC and assumed it was Flair when in fact it was Swoop that they partnered with. Sunwing is owned by the largest travel and tourism company in the world. I think they own 8 or 9 other airlines, mostly in Europe. As soon as the cruise ships, and hotels they own start being allowed to accept international travellers, Sunwing will have work.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by Zaibatsu »

I’d be more worried about Sunwing than Flair.

Yes, Sunwing is a small part of a larger business, but that business is all based on leisure travel. The thing hit hardest by COVID and the last thing people will spend money on as they stare down debt or wiped out savings. Staycations will be the word this summer, going to the rockeys instead of the alps. Houseboating in BC instead of cruising the Med. The biggest target on the chopping block would be an expensive airline in a market that now has too much capacity. Where you could likely get a better deal buying from WJ or AC for package deals than you can from your own airline.

Flair started as a charter airline and charters have skyrocketed since COVID hit. No airlines for FIFO workers so charters have picked it up. Lean operation that’s far more adaptable. How that will be for pilots in the long term, I don’t know. But the airline will survive.

Look at how many tour airlines have come and gone. Sunwing itself is only 15 years old. Only Air Transat has been around a long time and it was about to get absorbed into Air Canada.
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boeingboy
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by boeingboy »

While you make a good point or two.....you clearly have no idea about Sunwing.
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rudder
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by rudder »

The fate of SWG (and TRZ) will depend almost entirely on the travel demand AND yield for the upcoming winter packaged vacation season.

Not unlike a restaurant, vertically integrated tour companies cannot wait indefinitely to return to business, and to do so at a volume of customers that covers costs.

Best case they both come back but with reduced capacity. Worst case is a trip through CCAA and hopefully restructuring as smaller companies with less debt.
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flying4dollars
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Re: Will Flair/Sunwing survive

Post by flying4dollars »

boeingboy wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:37 am While you make a good point or two.....you clearly have no idea about Sunwing.
I didn't think he was wrong, but if you're going to say he has no idea, then maybe explain?

Otherwise we can all sit here and just say "nah, you're wrong" without any merit in the statement.
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