AC pilot salaries now?

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TT1900
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by TT1900 »

alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:53 pm
mbav8r wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:47 pm
alkaseltzer wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:43 am

Jazz pilots are on a trajectory to earn more than AC pilots over the next 5 years.
As a Jazz pilot(Captain), I would like to see the math on that, not really sure how you arrived at that
Let me clarify. I mean flat pay guys. Not your mid-seniority captain that is sitting on his porch in his Muskoka cottage making $10-15k+ per month to enjoy their beer. Not earning, but making.

But it's not about the seniors (for once).

For starters, Jazz guys will get CEWS for the duration of the program. AC refuses to.

People were told that it was a lottery to get into AC, yet the bottom guys aren't getting afforded basic decency of continuing the CEWS. Maybe they don't need any benefits, but CEWS goes a lot farther for families than CERB. Many of them took paycuts to get to AC, but now a few have resorted to DoorDash to supplement their income. I'm sure the beggars around the major intersections in Toronto are earning way more.

So while this pandemic unfolds and recovery occurs over the next few years, Jazz and Jazz ALPA seems to want to do right by their guys. Good on them. Same for the other airlines in Canada.

As for AC guys, it's crickets. Not a word. Yet. As of today. Less than two weeks to go to the end of the month and one can imagine the stress of many families from a failed cooperation between company and union.

Think Trudeau will put the brakes on the CEWS by the end of August? Think again. Will be till next February at the earliest. ALPA would reasonably do their part to extend this for everyone. Their actions speak louder than words. But as of today, AC families stay in limbo.

The common decency to the ones who worked their career to arrive at AC, has not been extended. Simple arithmetic would tell you that every other pilot on CEWS in Canada will take home more than the furloughed pilots at AC, probably at least $500 more than CERB. So hopefully the previous posters can see what I'm getting at.

How does that feel being treated?

Jazz/ALPA 1 - AC/ACPA - 0

I wonder if a cardboard cutout of "AC Pilot needs to feed family" would earn an extra 50 cents, for a beggar at Airport/Derry Road. Imagine that hitting CBC. Guess what, it's at zero cost to the company, just like the wage subsidy with no benefits. That's all people are asking for.
Rationalize things all you like, if given the choice I’d still rather be an AC pilot with an AC seniority number.
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mbav8r
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by mbav8r »

alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:53 pm
mbav8r wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:47 pm
alkaseltzer wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:43 am

Jazz pilots are on a trajectory to earn more than AC pilots over the next 5 years.
As a Jazz pilot(Captain), I would like to see the math on that, not really sure how you arrived at that
Let me clarify. I mean flat pay guys. Not your mid-seniority captain that is sitting on his porch in his Muskoka cottage making $10-15k+ per month to enjoy their beer. Not earning, but making.

But it's not about the seniors (for once).

For starters, Jazz guys will get CEWS for the duration of the program. AC refuses to.

People were told that it was a lottery to get into AC, yet the bottom guys aren't getting afforded basic decency of continuing the CEWS. Maybe they don't need any benefits, but CEWS goes a lot farther for families than CERB. Many of them took paycuts to get to AC, but now a few have resorted to DoorDash to supplement their income. I'm sure the beggars around the major intersections in Toronto are earning way more.

So while this pandemic unfolds and recovery occurs over the next few years, Jazz and Jazz ALPA seems to want to do right by their guys. Good on them. Same for the other airlines in Canada.

As for AC guys, it's crickets. Not a word. Yet. As of today. Less than two weeks to go to the end of the month and one can imagine the stress of many families from a failed cooperation between company and union.

Think Trudeau will put the brakes on the CEWS by the end of August? Think again. Will be till next February at the earliest. ALPA would reasonably do their part to extend this for everyone. Their actions speak louder than words. But as of today, AC families stay in limbo.

The common decency to the ones who worked their career to arrive at AC, has not been extended. Simple arithmetic would tell you that every other pilot on CEWS in Canada will take home more than the furloughed pilots at AC, probably at least $500 more than CERB. So hopefully the previous posters can see what I'm getting at.

How does that feel being treated?

Jazz/ALPA 1 - AC/ACPA - 0

I wonder if a cardboard cutout of "AC Pilot needs to feed family" would earn an extra 50 cents, for a beggar at Airport/Derry Road. Imagine that hitting CBC. Guess what, it's at zero cost to the company, just like the wage subsidy with no benefits. That's all people are asking for.
That is the crux of the topic, it is not zero cost to the company.
Active Jazz pilots had to give up a couple things and inactive pilots on CEWS are paying for their reduced benefits(No dental, life or STD/LTD) as well as no pension contribution from pilot or company.
The active pilots are foregoing the annual 2% raise, some other temporary lets to contract language we needed to continue the CEWS program.
If ACPA approaches it to negate the cost to the company like pension and benefits, you may see it extended but what’s left for the active pilots to give, they’re already at 55 hr blocking, I don’t see how anyone could expect more.
Yes, it is a terrible situation, I’ve been out of work and certainly feel for those affected, what you need to realize is CEWS was great for the company and furloughed pilots if this was more of a short term situation, the reality is, this will be much longer than originally thought.
My advice, go get your class one and drive a truck for a bit, until things start to pick up, I did it for 3 and half years post 9/11.
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alkaseltzer
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by alkaseltzer »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:08 pm
alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:53 pm
mbav8r wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:47 pm

As a Jazz pilot(Captain), I would like to see the math on that, not really sure how you arrived at that
Let me clarify. I mean flat pay guys. Not your mid-seniority captain that is sitting on his porch in his Muskoka cottage making $10-15k+ per month to enjoy their beer. Not earning, but making.

But it's not about the seniors (for once).

For starters, Jazz guys will get CEWS for the duration of the program. AC refuses to.

People were told that it was a lottery to get into AC, yet the bottom guys aren't getting afforded basic decency of continuing the CEWS. Maybe they don't need any benefits, but CEWS goes a lot farther for families than CERB. Many of them took paycuts to get to AC, but now a few have resorted to DoorDash to supplement their income. I'm sure the beggars around the major intersections in Toronto are earning way more.

So while this pandemic unfolds and recovery occurs over the next few years, Jazz and Jazz ALPA seems to want to do right by their guys. Good on them. Same for the other airlines in Canada.

As for AC guys, it's crickets. Not a word. Yet. As of today. Less than two weeks to go to the end of the month and one can imagine the stress of many families from a failed cooperation between company and union.

Think Trudeau will put the brakes on the CEWS by the end of August? Think again. Will be till next February at the earliest. ALPA would reasonably do their part to extend this for everyone. Their actions speak louder than words. But as of today, AC families stay in limbo.

The common decency to the ones who worked their career to arrive at AC, has not been extended. Simple arithmetic would tell you that every other pilot on CEWS in Canada will take home more than the furloughed pilots at AC, probably at least $500 more than CERB. So hopefully the previous posters can see what I'm getting at.

How does that feel being treated?

Jazz/ALPA 1 - AC/ACPA - 0

I wonder if a cardboard cutout of "AC Pilot needs to feed family" would earn an extra 50 cents, for a beggar at Airport/Derry Road. Imagine that hitting CBC. Guess what, it's at zero cost to the company, just like the wage subsidy with no benefits. That's all people are asking for.
That is the crux of the topic, it is not zero cost to the company.
Active Jazz pilots had to give up a couple things and inactive pilots on CEWS are paying for their reduced benefits(No dental, life or STD/LTD) as well as no pension contribution from pilot or company.
The active pilots are foregoing the annual 2% raise, some other temporary lets to contract language we needed to continue the CEWS program.
If ACPA approaches it to negate the cost to the company like pension and benefits, you may see it extended but what’s left for the active pilots to give, they’re already at 55 hr blocking, I don’t see how anyone could expect more.
Yes, it is a terrible situation, I’ve been out of work and certainly feel for those affected, what you need to realize is CEWS was great for the company and furloughed pilots if this was more of a short term situation, the reality is, this will be much longer than originally thought.
My advice, go get your class one and drive a truck for a bit, until things start to pick up, I did it for 3 and half years post 9/11.
It can be at ZERO cost to the company. I disagree. Look around the country.

As an unproductive pilot doing zero flying, it would be presumptious to expect benefits and pension contribution while on CEWS. Transat, Sunwing, Westjet, Porter, etc all have their guys on CEWS. I don't think anyone expects a capitalistic model to turn socialist. My tax dollars over the years fed into the system, and if I'm entitled to CEWS, we should not be blocked from it. We have recall rights; whether we are called in two months or ten months, the CEWS should be extended for all employees that have recall rights. If Transat decides to postpone their July opening to October, are you telling me they should stop CEWS? Run that by them.

Ask ANY of the bottom 262 pilots or so that have received their furlough notice what they'd want to receive come June 30th and July 7th respectively.

The furloughed pilots would appreciate your advice about driving a truck/other career options, that's not at the core of this argument. If we have recall rights; we should be on CEWS. The union should be fighting to extend this for those guys and the company having the decency to see to this effect.

I don't like airing out our dirty laundry in public. But this is terrible. Heartless. Twisting Trudeau's words to fit their (the airline) narrative. And today he said that he expects employers to use it; will the unions jump on that wording and fight for the guys?


Bueller?
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mbav8r
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by mbav8r »

alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:21 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:08 pm
alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:53 pm

Let me clarify. I mean flat pay guys. Not your mid-seniority captain that is sitting on his porch in his Muskoka cottage making $10-15k+ per month to enjoy their beer. Not earning, but making.

But it's not about the seniors (for once).

For starters, Jazz guys will get CEWS for the duration of the program. AC refuses to.

People were told that it was a lottery to get into AC, yet the bottom guys aren't getting afforded basic decency of continuing the CEWS. Maybe they don't need any benefits, but CEWS goes a lot farther for families than CERB. Many of them took paycuts to get to AC, but now a few have resorted to DoorDash to supplement their income. I'm sure the beggars around the major intersections in Toronto are earning way more.

So while this pandemic unfolds and recovery occurs over the next few years, Jazz and Jazz ALPA seems to want to do right by their guys. Good on them. Same for the other airlines in Canada.

As for AC guys, it's crickets. Not a word. Yet. As of today. Less than two weeks to go to the end of the month and one can imagine the stress of many families from a failed cooperation between company and union.

Think Trudeau will put the brakes on the CEWS by the end of August? Think again. Will be till next February at the earliest. ALPA would reasonably do their part to extend this for everyone. Their actions speak louder than words. But as of today, AC families stay in limbo.

The common decency to the ones who worked their career to arrive at AC, has not been extended. Simple arithmetic would tell you that every other pilot on CEWS in Canada will take home more than the furloughed pilots at AC, probably at least $500 more than CERB. So hopefully the previous posters can see what I'm getting at.

How does that feel being treated?

Jazz/ALPA 1 - AC/ACPA - 0

I wonder if a cardboard cutout of "AC Pilot needs to feed family" would earn an extra 50 cents, for a beggar at Airport/Derry Road. Imagine that hitting CBC. Guess what, it's at zero cost to the company, just like the wage subsidy with no benefits. That's all people are asking for.
That is the crux of the topic, it is not zero cost to the company.
Active Jazz pilots had to give up a couple things and inactive pilots on CEWS are paying for their reduced benefits(No dental, life or STD/LTD) as well as no pension contribution from pilot or company.
The active pilots are foregoing the annual 2% raise, some other temporary lets to contract language we needed to continue the CEWS program.
If ACPA approaches it to negate the cost to the company like pension and benefits, you may see it extended but what’s left for the active pilots to give, they’re already at 55 hr blocking, I don’t see how anyone could expect more.
Yes, it is a terrible situation, I’ve been out of work and certainly feel for those affected, what you need to realize is CEWS was great for the company and furloughed pilots if this was more of a short term situation, the reality is, this will be much longer than originally thought.
My advice, go get your class one and drive a truck for a bit, until things start to pick up, I did it for 3 and half years post 9/11.
It can be at ZERO cost to the company. I disagree. Look around the country.

As an unproductive pilot doing zero flying, it would be presumptious to expect benefits and pension contribution while on CEWS. Transat, Sunwing, Westjet, Porter, etc all have their guys on CEWS. I don't think anyone expects a capitalistic model to turn socialist. My tax dollars over the years fed into the system, and if I'm entitled to CEWS, we should not be blocked from it. We have recall rights; whether we are called in two months or ten months, the CEWS should be extended for all employees that have recall rights. If Transat decides to postpone their July opening to October, are you telling me they should stop CEWS? Run that by them.

Ask ANY of the bottom 262 pilots or so that have received their furlough notice what they'd want to receive come June 30th and July 7th respectively.

The furloughed pilots would appreciate your advice about driving a truck/other career options, that's not at the core of this argument. If we have recall rights; we should be on CEWS. The union should be fighting to extend this for those guys and the company having the decency to see to this effect.

I don't like airing out our dirty laundry in public. But this is terrible. Heartless. Twisting Trudeau's words to fit their (the airline) narrative. And today he said that he expects employers to use it; will the unions jump on that wording and fight for the guys?


Bueller?
I agree, ACPA should be working on getting it extended, a simple agreement that no cost to the company for benefits or pension or even pensionable service accumulated should do the trick. I hope they manage but again realize, your recall rights are only good to you if you are recalled before the government program runs out, time to work on plan b
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by rudder »

CR has an agenda. It is not with ACPA. Not with CUPE. Not with IAM. Not with UNIFOR. Not with CALDA.

It is with YOW. Maximum pressure. Force industry tailored assistance.

There is nothing that CR wants from the AC unions other than support for that agenda.
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Rowdy
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by Rowdy »

rudder wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:55 am CR has an agenda. It is not with ACPA. Not with CUPE. Not with IAM. Not with UNIFOR. Not with CALDA.

It is with YOW. Maximum pressure. Force industry tailored assistance.

There is nothing that CR wants from the AC unions other than support for that agenda.
Bingo.

He wants the cash to keep the company afloat. Does not care about the employee group (nor should he)
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alkaseltzer
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by alkaseltzer »

All valid and good points.

Jazz came out today stating that medical benefits only will get partially covered (30%) for their furloughed pilots + getting CEWS. (for the entire duration of the CEWS program)

Jazz is a subcontractor to AC, yet an independent company. Good on them for not following the current narrative at AC to look after their guys.

Are you telling me that all Air Canada Pilots and Flight Attendants taking a paycut are (partially) in effect, subsidizing Jazz benefits? How does Mike Rousseau justify this course of action? And after Trudeau states that all employers should be using it. Where's the integrity? What am I not understanding here? Heartless or mild pericarditis?

Rowdy -> which ship is the priority? Not enough life jackets on the Titanic? The senior pilots and senior members of the union seem to be the ones in the lifeboats just watching everyone else struggle. Some are sending up flares...some are trying to grab onto floating furniture in the icy Atlantic.

That's exactly how the 242 furloughed pilots feel right now.
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by mbav8r »

alkaseltzer wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:47 pm All valid and good points.

Jazz came out today stating that medical benefits only will get partially covered (30%) for their furloughed pilots + getting CEWS. (for the entire duration of the CEWS program)

Jazz is a subcontractor to AC, yet an independent company. Good on them for not following the current narrative at AC to look after their guys.

Are you telling me that all Air Canada Pilots and Flight Attendants taking a paycut are (partially) in effect, subsidizing Jazz benefits? How does Mike Rousseau justify this course of action? And after Trudeau states that all employers should be using it. Where's the integrity? What am I not understanding here? Heartless or mild pericarditis?

Rowdy -> which ship is the priority? Not enough life jackets on the Titanic? The senior pilots and senior members of the union seem to be the ones in the lifeboats just watching everyone else struggle. Some are sending up flares...some are trying to grab onto floating furniture in the icy Atlantic.

That's exactly how the 242 furloughed pilots feel right now.
Slight correction, the inactive pilots benefits have been reduced to extended health care only, no dental, life, STD, LTD, AD&D.
They(the pilots) will pay their portion of 30% from payroll deduction, in addition to this there is no pension contribution from the company or the pilot, essentially no cost to the company to keep them on CEWS, except I’m not sure if the company has to contribute to CPP and EI.
As for your analogy that the senior pilots are in the lifeboats and don’t care, I find that statement offensive, they are only receiving about 2/3 of their normal salary in order that many more pilots were not furloughed.
The remaining pilots took a 33% pay cut to save many jobs, what is it you want them to do? Use some common sense, they could go further and take a 50% block to save more jobs, what would your paycheque look like at 50% block. The pilots about to be furloughed are mostly, if not all, on the first four years, 50% of that is less than EI for most of you given that EI is 55% of your salary up to the max.
Bottom line, I find your attitude towards the senior pilots to be selfish, you don’t even recognize they’re already making a sacrifice for many to remain employed, in all likelihood there will be more cuts coming in the fall, so as I said before, time to work on plan b.
Good luck, sincerely
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by florch »

montado wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:52 am 60k income takes home 46k in Ontario
300k income takes home 174265 or about 4x as much take home. When gross was 5x.
I wouldn't take silence for agreement on this one. 53.5% income tax is high on your top dollars in Ontario. in 2015 it was 46.5% when Wynne and Trudeau each raised income taxes to our current level. What is a reasonable upper limit to you? Another way to look at it is the guy making $300k makes 9x the contribution to society of the guy at $60k. (126k/14k by your numbers)
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by tbaylx »

florch wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:51 am
montado wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:52 am 60k income takes home 46k in Ontario
300k income takes home 174265 or about 4x as much take home. When gross was 5x.
I wouldn't take silence for agreement on this one. 53.5% income tax is high on your top dollars in Ontario. in 2015 it was 46.5% when Wynne and Trudeau each raised income taxes to our current level. What is a reasonable upper limit to you? Another way to look at it is the guy making $300k makes 9x the contribution to society of the guy at $60k. (126k/14k by your numbers)
Top 10% of the income earners in Canada pay 54% of the income tax collected. The bottom 40% of income earners pay no tax after government benefits. It's darn close to universal basic income at the expense of the top earners and the CERB isn't going to be easy to turn off now.
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by digits_ »

tbaylx wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:32 pm

Top 10% of the income earners in Canada pay 54% of the income tax collected. The bottom 40% of income earners pay no tax after government benefits. It's darn close to universal basic income at the expense of the top earners and the CERB isn't going to be easy to turn off now.
The whole point of a universal basic income is that *everyone* gets it, without conditions. That is not the case at all here.
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by tbaylx »

digits_ wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:41 pm
tbaylx wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:32 pm

Top 10% of the income earners in Canada pay 54% of the income tax collected. The bottom 40% of income earners pay no tax after government benefits. It's darn close to universal basic income at the expense of the top earners and the CERB isn't going to be easy to turn off now.
The whole point of a universal basic income is that *everyone* gets it, without conditions. That is not the case at all here.
That's not how it works. The proposed UBI in Canada and the test pilot project in Ontario was based on a tax credit system that guaranteed a minimum income. Those making over about 48K a year were not eligible. It was to be paid for by increased taxes of which the top 10% earners (over $97K/year) would pay for over half.

Following a tax credit model, the Ontario Basic Income Pilot will ensure that participants receive up to:

Must be living on a low income (under $34,000 per year if you're single or under $48,000 per year if a couple)

$16,989 per year for a single person, less 50% of any earned income
$24,027 per year for a couple, less 50% of any earned income
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by florch »

tbaylx wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:32 pm

Top 10% of the income earners in Canada pay 54% of the income tax collected. The bottom 40% of income earners pay no tax after government benefits. It's darn close to universal basic income at the expense of the top earners and the CERB isn't going to be easy to turn off now.
Workers make at least 2 contributions to society, the service they provide and the tax they pay. So the lower 40% may be a tax drag on the budget but we still benefit from their services. IF a UBI replaced the myriad of other social programs that would be a benefit on its own, although governments don't tend towards less bureaucracy over time.
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by ayseven »

Not only that, the bottom earners put absolutely everything back into the economy and not in a bank or "investment in property" or whatever. The universal income would be a net benefit to us all, if it can do anything at all to stop the social problems (and COSTS associated) we have these days. There is too much poverty and hopelessness.I think it takes a bit of open-mindedness to accept this concept though, and that might be a hard sell. I know it is hard to get an underpaid, underemployed pilot to really think about this much; I do understand that, because I have been there too.
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by tbaylx »

ayseven wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:43 am Not only that, the bottom earners put absolutely everything back into the economy and not in a bank or "investment in property" or whatever. The universal income would be a net benefit to us all, if it can do anything at all to stop the social problems (and COSTS associated) we have these days. There is too much poverty and hopelessness.I think it takes a bit of open-mindedness to accept this concept though, and that might be a hard sell. I know it is hard to get an underpaid, underemployed pilot to really think about this much; I do understand that, because I have been there too.
It's even harder to get someone who is already paying 54% marginal tax rate to "give just a little more" and "pay their fair share". UBI is great in theory but unless you cancel all the other social programs and find existing money to fund it it's not going to work.
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by ayseven »

I think that is the biggest problem with it. There isn't much incentive for a middle earner. It is always take take take by the government. Rich is a lot more than some people think.
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by montado »

florch wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:51 am
montado wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:52 am 60k income takes home 46k in Ontario
300k income takes home 174265 or about 4x as much take home. When gross was 5x.
I wouldn't take silence for agreement on this one. 53.5% income tax is high on your top dollars in Ontario. in 2015 it was 46.5% when Wynne and Trudeau each raised income taxes to our current level. What is a reasonable upper limit to you? Another way to look at it is the guy making $300k makes 9x the contribution to society of the guy at $60k. (126k/14k by your numbers)

The guy making 300k hasn't been making 300k his whole career. Their was a time that that 300k wage earner was a 30 year old leach to society making peanuts and taking advantage of every social benefit for his young kids etc.

So no the 300k wage earner is not contributing more to society. They are no different than the guy making 50k today that works his way up to 300k

All these ways people try to spin an argument is ridiculous. No one really cares that a huge wage earner pays more tax. I'm happy to have my socialized health benefits when I'm jobless I'm also happy to pay more taxes when times are good and I can pull in above average.

All those seats filled by the highest earners are a seniority number and nothing to do with being most qualified for the job. Plenty of pilots just starting out at a place like air canada left a WB captain seat for their own personal reasons. So you think the low wage earners should bow down and be thankful for the high wage earners? Get you head out of the sand. If and WB captain at AC was laid off they would apply for CERB and be a leach to the tax system like anyone else.
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by florch »

montado wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:57 pm The guy making 300k hasn't been making 300k his whole career. Their was a time that that 300k wage earner was a 30 year old leach to society making peanuts and taking advantage of every social benefit for his young kids etc.

So no the 300k wage earner is not contributing more to society. They are no different than the guy making 50k today that works his way up to 300k

All these ways people try to spin an argument is ridiculous. No one really cares that a huge wage earner pays more tax. I'm happy to have my socialized health benefits when I'm jobless I'm also happy to pay more taxes when times are good and I can pull in above average.

All those seats filled by the highest earners are a seniority number and nothing to do with being most qualified for the job. Plenty of pilots just starting out at a place like air canada left a WB captain seat for their own personal reasons. So you think the low wage earners should bow down and be thankful for the high wage earners? Get you head out of the sand. If and WB captain at AC was laid off they would apply for CERB and be a leach to the tax system like anyone else.
Meow.

You're harshing my mellow. Why would you call people leeches? Why do you hate children? They'll contribute to society in time and we were all children at one point. How can you say the guy earning $300k is not contributing more? He is definitely contributing more tax revenue than average. If that's not a valuable contribution, can he keep it instead? When did I say anyone should bow down?

I'm not against a progressive tax system, but you don't seem to think I should be allowed to have an opinion on when enough is enough. My facts are correct and you didn't answer my original question: How much tax is enough? What should the highest tax bracket be, and on what income should it start?

How does that poll function work? 30%, 40%, 50%, 60%.......
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montado
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by montado »

This pandemic is evidence that the 300k captain is actually nothing to do with contributing to the economy. Without passengers the job is useless. It's the passengers buying the tickets that move the economy. As for progressive taxes, why would someone who makes 50k a year be empathetic about the taxes someone with higher income pays? They pay the same taxes on the first 50k of income. They pay the same taxes as everyone else. Why are the high income earners upset about taxes.
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Hangry
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Re: AC pilot salaries now?

Post by Hangry »

He obviously is a youngin who has never cleared north of 60K.

It would be interesting to see his honest opinion when he’s making 350k. Which he probably never will. And wouldn’t be honest anyways.

So why bother even engaging.
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